Sargent - best striker in the division?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Saw this article. I haven't seen enough of Josh Sargent to really change my opinion on him. To me he is still the player whose weak shot into an open goal against (Brighton?) didn't have the strength to make it to the goal line and who looked like he was from another sport and had never played football before. 

This article suggests he is the real deal. 

So what is he? Discombobulated work horse, or genuine quality? 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/norwich-city-urged-to-take-josh-sargent-january-transfer-stance/

 

 

Edited October 11 by The Great Mass Debater

[NWC 315]

24 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Saw this article. I haven't seen enough of Josh Sargent to really change my opinion on him. To me he is still the player whose weak shot into an open goal against (Brighton?) didn't have the strength to make it to the goal line and who looked like he was from another sport and had never played football before. 

This article suggests he is the real deal. 

So what is he? Discombobulated work horse, or genuine quality? 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/norwich-city-urged-to-take-josh-sargent-january-transfer-stance/

 

 

Really???? A weak striker??????

I would tend to agree with the article attached rather than you.

 

Unless of course we are playing games 🤔

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

12 minutes ago, NWC said:

Really???? A weak striker??????

I would tend to agree with the article attached rather than you.

 

Unless of course we are playing games 🤔

I'm asking. I've freely admitted I've not seen much of him since his first season with us when he was frankly awful

[Google Bot 3,934]

He outgunned Pukki in the last season they were both here, feeding from the same team.  I think he's the real deal at this level, and by that I mean a 20+/season type.

My problem is that I don't know all the other strikers in the division to say if he's 'the best', but he's gotta be up there.

I think one of his biggest strengths is that he's not a one trick pony, and very much a team player which goes a long way at this level, but to get to the next level he'd need to find a somewhat more ruthless, clinical streak in him - You'd bet your house on Pukki scoring when through on goal, I think that's where Sarge just falls short.  Question is does his more varied style make up for it?

Perhaps we should get promoted and find out?! 🙂

[S_81 1,101]

Is the OP not a Norwich fan? I’m guessing not given him saying he hasn’t seen enough of Sargent. And yet he refers to “us”. Well, any Norwich fan, even viewing on the TV, would know a lot about Sarge and how good he is. Best in the league is ambiguous. One of the best, no doubt. 
 

[Capt. Pants 5,009]

He's very good at Championship level and seems adept at playing as an out and out front man, or a slightly deeper role. What he isn’t is a winger!!

Whether he can step to the EPL is another matter. I fear we would drag him down to our level and he would struggle, but with a better team he might hold his own.

 

[Myra Hawtree 139]

Improved a lot with ball control from his first season when he was all arms and legs.  Good but wouldn’t say best in the division.  Needs to practice penalty taking too!

[JonnyJonnyRowe 973]

10 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I'm asking. I've freely admitted I've not seen much of him since his first season with us when he was frankly awful

So you've basically not watched us play for two and a half years?

[JonnyJonnyRowe 973]

7 hours ago, Google Bot said:

You'd bet your house on Pukki scoring when through on goal

Pukki was poor in his final season and couldn't score for toffee for the last 5 months, lets be honest, he'd lost something.

[Robert N. LiM 6,284]

11 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

So what is he? Discombobulated work horse, or genuine quality? 

Way better than the former. He's thrived since moving into the middle. At his best he's a nightmare for defenders because he never gives them a minute's peace. And I'd also imagine they find him quite unpredictable in his movements (as I suspect he does, sometimes 😉 ).

'Genuine quality'? At this level definitely. He was excellent last season. I guess there is a question of whether that was a purple patch: as others have said he massively outperformed his xG, so it's likely he won't quite hit those goalscoring heights this season. But there are signs that JHT has him in a slightly different role this season where he will contribute a lot to the team, including more assists, but might score fewer goals. Obviously a small sample so far, but that's what's currently happening.

Feels to me like the second tier might be his limit. Not sure he has the pace or first touch to really trouble PL defenders. But I guess you never know. As @Google Bot says,

7 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Perhaps we should get promoted and find out?! 🙂

 

[Petriix 3,219]

Players can and do improve, especially with top level coaching and competitive minutes on the pitch. Sargent has a lot of raw attributes which point to a high ceiling, but arguably lacks a little bit of technical ability.

For me he lacks a little bit of that "right place, right time" quality that top strikers seem to have. But I think his touch is getting better and his finishing is sporadically great and could get more consistent. 

However, people rightly highlighted in my recent striker thread that he does a lot of other stuff really well which creates openings for our other players. Because he's not your typical lone striker, he presents different challenges for defenders. In that sense he's a vital cog for the Hoffball machine right now. 

[Monty13 2,736]

I wouldn’t swap him for any other Championship striker, so I guess that means I think he’s the best.

[Lewis DW 30]

For me, Sargent has been pretty wasteful in the NCFC matches I've been to this season. Much like they used to say about Andy Cole, give him 5 shots and he'll score one.

 

Josh isnt a bad player, but I can see why no EPL teams have signed him, needs to be a lot more clinical. 

[Newtopia 573]

He is really good and pretty rounded as a player, when I am being hyper critical I think his touch can be little loose, and he is injured a lot, reading between the lines I think he lives with it, opposed to realistically getting over it.  I am pretty sure unless we go up, someone will come and try to sign him soon, that is the way city roll.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

3 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

So you've basically not watched us play for two and a half years?

Prety much yes. I fell out of love with football for a few years and stopped watching. I was severely depressed at the time. Beginning to show more of an interest again as I've got better

[Robert N. LiM 6,284]

33 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Prety much yes. I fell out of love with football for a few years and stopped watching. I was severely depressed at the time. Beginning to show more of an interest again as I've got better

Very sorry to hear that and glad to hear you're doing better. As someone who has suffered from depression in the past I really don't mean this glibly: the Hoff has got NCFC playing some very joyous football and now seems like the perfect time to rekindle your interest.

[Barham Blitz 869]

4 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Pukki was poor in his final season and couldn't score for toffee for the last 5 months, lets be honest, he'd lost something.

It may have been him ageing, but I personally think it was a team geared up to give him the service he needs to get the best out of him that he lost.  He never really relied on searing pace, but rather clever movement and being quick enough.  In that final season he spent most of his time pressing opposition defences, losing headers, making runs for passes that never came and chasing after lost causes.

Slip him the ball between centre back and full back and you could spend the next few seconds working out how to celebrate the goal more often than not.  Would have loved to have seen Championship winning era Pukki in this set up.  The mix of short passing, quick transitions and accurate longer channel passing would have suited him perfectly.

Which is absolutely not to denigrate Josh - I was one of the few in that first post-Pukki season that suggested he would be a perfectly adequate striker at this level and he has improved significantly since then with regular games in his actual position.  He'd make virtually any championship starting XI that I can think of this season IMO.

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

16 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Saw this article. I haven't seen enough of Josh Sargent to really change my opinion on him. To me he is still the player whose weak shot into an open goal against (Brighton?) didn't have the strength to make it to the goal line and who looked like he was from another sport and had never played football before. 

This article suggests he is the real deal. 

So what is he? Discombobulated work horse, or genuine quality? 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/norwich-city-urged-to-take-josh-sargent-january-transfer-stance/

 

 

Everyone open to an opinion but if you cant see how far he has come from that game, you clearly not watching football. 
Edit: Well this has been cleared up, hope your feeling a lot better!

Hes the real deal and has to be part of the conversation when discussing best in the league. 

 

Edited October 12 by Nexus_Canary

[Europe_93 50]

Harry Kane isn’t the same player today as he was when at Norwich…. and modern day Josh Sargent is also a different beast to the one that played against Brighton.

key changes, he bulked up and is stronger, Pukki left and he got given more responsibility & focus, last season he got goals and confidence soared (you can see him assert his influence on games, decide I will make this happen…..  now Thorrup has come in and as the team benefits and becomes stronger he naturally looks better.  Also worth saying we were in the premier league when he started here, and we’re in the championship now so again bound to loook better.

Very good and important player for us but can still improve.

[chicken 3,086]

16 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I'm asking. I've freely admitted I've not seen much of him since his first season with us when he was frankly awful

Two things, and I don't mean this harshly.

His first season was when he was 21, first season in English football. Wasn't properly given time in our first 11 league games at least and was predominantly played on the right wing in a side struggling for form and unity.

Season two Smith persisted in playing him out wide and Pukki up front, who, IMHO was struggling to perform to the same level in a post Buendia/Stiepermann/Vrancic/Cantwell world.

Despite that he'd scored goals from that position. Wagner came in and moved him central. By the end of the 2nd season he'd outscored Pukki and scored something like 10 goals in 18 starts as a striker.

Last season, despite missing a wedge through injury, his finishing was very good with one of the best goals to minutes/chances ratios in this division. He's a good alrounder, enough pace to worry a defence, scores with his head and feet and can drop deep to get involved in moves early one.

He was never 'awful' in his first season, certainly no worse than other players and far from the worse player in terms of performance and work rate that season.

[ron obvious 1,711]

Pound Shop Harry Kane (when Kane was at his best mind)😉

[S_81 1,101]

5 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Prety much yes. I fell out of love with football for a few years and stopped watching. I was severely depressed at the time. Beginning to show more of an interest again as I've got better

Glad to hear you’re improving. And watching Norwich during that period certainly won’t have helped things - so a wise decision 😉 . Keep battling on, mate 🙂 

[C.I.D 358]

9 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Pukki was poor in his final season and couldn't score for toffee for the last 5 months, lets be honest, he'd lost something.

Yes...............I suspect it was something called Buendia

[Capt. Pants 5,009]

Of course the slightly worrying thing is that the best striker in the Championship won't stay there for long.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 973]

1 hour ago, C.I.D said:

Yes...............I suspect it was something called Buendia

He lost him for two years though, I said the last 5 months.

It felt during that 5 months that he was on the wane, post-peak. 

It was a bit like watching Robert Fleck in his second spell when he came back in his 30's, where he was a shadow his former-self.

I personally feel that Pukki leaving when he did was the right time for us to part ways. He likely felt that too. 

It was best that he left that summer with his legacy fully intact. It hurt to see him go at the time, but on reflection it was the best time.

And since leaving us he had a brief purple patch at Minnesota, but is now not making an impact for them either, 4 goals in 21 games in this MLS season. And that is with Robin Lod in their midfield, who is the Finland player that Pukki once said he would want to play with at Norwich.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 973]

51 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Of course the slightly worrying thing is that the best striker in the Championship won't stay there for long.

Of course not, because we're going up this season!