Abu Kamara as put in a transfer request

[Serinus canaria 29]

If he's a nailed on starter at Portsmouth and they play to his strengths then I can understand it. It is a short career and each year counts. I feel a bit for Thorup though, you wouldn't expect so much unrest from the younger players. I was more expecting the older heads to be the disgruntled one, a bit like Russell Martin under Farke (although on a three year contract Duffy is not going anywhere is he).

I always find the phrase 'handed in a transfer request strange' needlessly official. Surely its just a chat with the agent where they say he wants to leave?

[shefcanary 3,059]

10 minutes ago, king canary said:

The unknown question is obviously why- is he not bought in to JHT? Does he think he should be starting week in week out and isn't willing to earn a place? Does he want to play in a certain role while we envision something different for him? Does he think he should have been given a bumper new deal on the back on the Portsmouth loan? 

IMV, its not an unknown is it, all of these play a part in this decision? 

There is now a 17yo who has jumped ahead of him for first team starts, I can see the style of play he produced for Pompey is not quite what Hoff wants and is thus he is being asked to try and tweak things but his performances so far have shown he is not yet able to do this, he hasn't yet signed the contract on offer to him.

In short, he thought he had it made and now has been basically told to prove himself. His agent has persuaded him he can get all he wants by getting a move.

Again, I doubt there will be that many takers at the price we will want. Interesting times again.

[shefcanary 3,059]

14 minutes ago, Bristol Canary said:

Personally I can't see Hanley being ok with being demoted to 3rd/4th choice and could potentially see a deal being done for a loan on him if a club comes forward yet.

Yes, yes, yes!! Go on, you know it makes sense!

[Newtopia 582]

I wonder how annoyed Thorup really is?  If he doesn't fancy Kamara and can generate decent cash then fair enough, also fair enough on Kamara as he is looking to move, he hasn't refused to play, and I do think that is important.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 1,036]

7 minutes ago, Serinus canaria said:

I always find the phrase 'handed in a transfer request strange' needlessly official. Surely its just a chat with the agent where they say he wants to leave?

No actually, it has contract implications.

Where a player is sold without handing in a transfer request they are entitled to their outstanding loyalty bonus for the duration of their contract (these have largely replaced the old 'signing on fees')

When a player submits a formal transfer request they are not. So often you get players trying to force a move without actually ever submitting a written transfer request.

[shefcanary 3,059]

11 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

If he's stuck on £800 a week you can't really blame him for wanting to go

He's been offered a new contract. If he doesn't want to take it, then he remains on his current one. Simples. Is the request a poorly thought out negotiating tactic? Probably.

I'll be surprised if there really are many takers prepared to pay our price so its back to League 1 on loan for him.

[Serinus canaria 29]

1 minute ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

No actually, it has contract implications.

Where a player is sold without handing in a transfer request they are entitled to their outstanding loyalty bonus for the duration of their contract (these have largely replaced the old 'signing on fees')

When a player submits a formal transfer request they are not. So often you get players trying to force a move without actually ever submitting a written transfer request.

Interesting! Thanks JJR I didn't know about loyalty bonuses. I wonder how substantial they are to a player on their first contract like Kamara?

[horsefly 5,307]

10 minutes ago, king canary said:

Really confusing and disappointing situation.

It certainly seems like Kamara and his agent have been looking to make a move happen- JHT and Knapper have stressed they see him as an important part of their plans but he's constantly been linked with moves away- it isn't a huge leap now to suggest these links have been encouraged by Kamara's camp. 

The unknown question is obviously why- is he not bought in to JHT? Does he think he should be starting week in week out and isn't willing to earn a place? Does he want to play in a certain role while we envision something different for him? Does he think he should have been given a bumper new deal on the back on the Portsmouth loan? Without knowing this it is difficult to know how to feel about it all. It does seem odd that he seems so desperate to force a move when the teams he's mostly been linked with (Hull and Portsmouth) are in our division and not exactly hot favourites for promotion!

I think agents have a lot to do with seeding discontent among impressionable young players. As with Mumba, Kamara had a great season in league one but has very much failed to impress in pre-season. An agent has little to gain financially from a player who is on the fringes of the first eleven, and sat on the subs bench for most of the season. There is much to gain for an agent hyping up a promising prior lower season performance to cash in on what might turn out to be a high point in a player's value. 

[dylanisabaddog 6,187]

11 minutes ago, Serinus canaria said:

If he's a nailed on starter at Portsmouth and they play to his strengths then I can understand it. It is a short career and each year counts. I feel a bit for Thorup though, you wouldn't expect so much unrest from the younger players. I was more expecting the older heads to be the disgruntled one, a bit like Russell Martin under Farke (although on a three year contract Duffy is not going anywhere is he).

I always find the phrase 'handed in a transfer request strange' needlessly official. Surely its just a chat with the agent where they say he wants to leave?

Submitting a transfer request means that the player is waiving all his rights under his contract. If a club sells a player without a transfer request the player is entitled to compensation for lost earnings under the contract. 

The request means that it makes it significantly easier to sell him. 

For this reason, written transfer requests are quite unusual as they reduce the player's financial bargaining position. 

[Badger 2,750]

7 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I have no idea whether Kamara is good enough or not, however its alarming that young players are no longer seeing the pathway here and deciding (rightly or wrongly) that they are better off leaving.

This has always happened. Players that are not really good enough get moved on quite ruthlessly. Idah and Kamara, have rarely threatened the first team on a regular basis and neither are that young anymore: cashing in seems sensible if they're not worth a place in the team. Rowe has a greater record of success with us but only really half a season and has suffered quite a lot from injuries. £13m or £14m with a sell on is probably a sensible price for Rowe, who even if he stayed fully fit and scored regularly would probably have a ceiling of around £20 million without premier league experience and less than this with his contract running down.

In the final analysis you can't keep every player who has potential because they will never fulfil it without regular first team experience and to get the experience in the team you have to be good enough. Idah and Kamara, like Mumba before them, have rarely shown that they were good enough to demand a regular first team place. Perhaps Gibbs needs a good season to show that he is not in the same category. (Although he signed a longer contract, so there is more incentive to "develop him.")

[Badger 2,750]

Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

Submitting a transfer request means that the player is waiving all his rights under his contract. If a club sells a player without a transfer request the player is entitled to compensation for lost earnings under the contract. 

The request means that it makes it significantly easier to sell him. 

For this reason, written transfer requests are quite unusual as they reduce the player's financial bargaining position. 

I always thought this, but someone told me this is wrong. You'd have to be more ITK than I to know. 🤷‍♂️

[kick it off 2,062]

46 minutes ago, TheGoogler said:

That's utter nonsense. If Aboh had these issues why has he signed a new deal? 

You're taking huge liberties with things you just don't know.

To be fair, it was heavily reported by the Pinkun about City having trouble getting Aboh to sign a new deal and they'd been working on it for a long time. The main issue with that was Aboh saw Matos go to Chelsea and get in around the squad, and he is mates with Matos and had some similar interest from bigger prem clubs (from what the Pinkun journos said).

The fact he signed a new deal here was partly that we offered him excellent terms on it, and partly that the club gave him assurances that there was a pathway to the first team for him.

[canarybubbles 2,206]

From what we've seen so far this pre-season and season, he's nothing special. If the club can't get what they want for him, stick him in the under-21s and move up Forsyth and Myles ahead of him.

[Channon’s Windmill 428]

We are in a state of flux, cannot remember a time when we had 3 players ‘playing up’ in the space of a few weeks. Idah late for preseason tour ( don’t think the excuses washed with JHT), Rowe refused to play 20 minutes to K/O and now Kamara. Interesting times, but not great for squad harmony I imagine.

[S_81 1,133]

Little diva, fu(k him - make him stay and play his way into contention. Or sulk and waste his season. Pull your socks up Abu you fool 

[Danke bitte 1,196]

Or maybe he’s seen the writing on the wall and knows he can’t play to the style Thorup wants?

[repman 807]

I think this has always been a tricky one with Kamara's deal up next year. His stock his high after coming off a really impressive second half to last season with Portsmouth and then the England u20 call up. His agent probably thinks we would have to sell for a lower fee due to the contract situation, on the flip side even though the new regime has talked about bringing young players through they're not going to want to do that with a player who they will lose soon. 

The fact he hasn't signed a new contract this summer, when that felt like something that should be the first order of business, was probably the warning sign. Although he's handed in this request we don't know if he has completely checked out, or if this is just posturing from his agent. 

 

[percy varco 254]

1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

But Thorup has openly stated he’s part of his plans?

Maybe Kamara isn’t convinced by what he sees, maybe Kamara is too impatient. 
We do live in an entitled age and a want it now attitude. Knuckling down to earn it is not always seen as an option. 
 

We have no idea why this request has been put in but I hope that we are not seeing an impatience from our young players or misguidance from Agents. 

[In my blood 120]

4 minutes ago, percy varco said:

Maybe Kamara isn’t convinced by what he sees, maybe Kamara is too impatient. 
We do live in an entitled age and a want it now attitude. Knuckling down to earn it is not always seen as an option. 
 

We have no idea why this request has been put in but I hope that we are not seeing an impatience from our young players or misguidance from Agents. 

 

4 minutes ago, percy varco said:

Maybe Kamara isn’t convinced by what he sees, maybe Kamara is too impatient. 
We do live in an entitled age and a want it now attitude. Knuckling down to earn it is not always seen as an option. 
 

We have no idea why this request has been put in but I hope that we are not seeing an impatience from our young players or misguidance from Agents. 

Unable to highlight your last 3 words but I reckon agents are working overtime at the moment causing all sorts of problems. I wonder if Abu has the same agent as Rowe or the same team as Sterling.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 1,036]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

I'll be surprised if there really are many takers prepared to pay our price so its back to League 1 on loan for him.

Portsmouth I presume would be the likely destination, they are Championship now.

[lake district canary 4,874]

Don't think we should get too worked up about this.  Thorup wants a particular kind of player/character and would be offering players the chance to stake their claim to the team by showing it in training and in commitment to the cause. If a player then turns round and wants off, then good, he was never going to fit and better off he goes now, rather than later - and we get players in who do want to be here.

 

[Hardhouse44 289]

Is this not just another case of the tail trying to wag the dog!

Kamara has done Jack for this club so far. The club who has given him his chance the club who has nurtured him to this point since he was 10 years old. We send him on loan to get experience and game time and when he returns he’s now billy big bołłocks who want first team at Championship level without wait for his opportunity. 
 

Rowe gives us 3/4 of a season hand he’s now refusing to play.

Norwich need to put their foot down hard with Kamara or we’ll get this crap every time a player thinks he should be playing or every time they think an offer is on the table for them that they want us to accept.

[Dame to Blame 110]

3 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

I think Forsyth being selected ahead of him on Saturday was the thing that’s made him want to do this tbh

I dont know why they play in different postions , so not really an argument .

Edited August 20, 2024 by Dame to Blame

[jammis 0]

...maybe he's pushing for a new contract a la Holt back in the day?

[City Stand Ultra 45]

JHT should see this as an opportunity.  Of the three Kamara is currently by far the least valuable in terms of sales value and lowest contributor for the team. Not that it matters a great deal but my view of him is that Kamara is too slow and weak for the Championship

Treat him fairly yet firmly.  While he has a transfer request in play he can train with the youth.  If someone offers silly money then we sell if not he can stay in the youth set up until he withdraws the request and commits to the cause.

Its an opportunity for JHT to show strength and leadership whilst not having to cut off his nose to spite his face. With Kamara I feel we have the stronger hand whereas with Idah and Rowe a move suits us

[Wimbledoncanary 39]

Really feel for the manager here. Kamara has been getting game time . Where's the patience ? Maybe he had an honest chat with manager and realised he isnt as far up the pecking order as we thought. Still , its really poor.

[dylanisabaddog 6,187]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

I always thought this, but someone told me this is wrong. You'd have to be more ITK than I to know. 🤷‍♂️

https://www.otib.co.uk/topic/155673-paying-up-contracts/

 

[Google Bot 3,993]

It's come after other young players have signed contract extensions, so you'd imagine there's been some negotiations and he's either not sure on whether the style is going reflect on his skillset badly or it's simply a case that he wanted more money/more guarantees perhaps?

Either way, i'm not sold on the guy yet and expected a Mumba situation anyway.  I expect he knows more about what's going on in regard to potential incomings (Such as the Croatian guy) and the positions/opportunities available, so things will look clearer once the window shuts and we'll see who's here and who's not.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Google Bot

[Wirecanary 34]

He came on at Oxford and didn’t take on the fullback once .. same in the cup game hardly set world alight so many back passes no real having a go at the fullback .. yes he scored .. ( but was open goal 2 yards out ) . Nothing in those 2 performances said I should be a starter . But he was getting mins which is the way to ease yourself in. Yet he throws toys out the pram?? Just angers me .. unless those clubs throw silly money in u21 till end of window then let’s see what he wants to do ..  

[Ulfotto 828]

3 hours ago, kick it off said:

To be fair, it was heavily reported by the Pinkun about City having trouble getting Aboh to sign a new deal and they'd been working on it for a long time. The main issue with that was Aboh saw Matos go to Chelsea and get in around the squad, and he is mates with Matos and had some similar interest from bigger prem clubs (from what the Pinkun journos said).

The fact he signed a new deal here was partly that we offered him excellent terms on it, and partly that the club gave him assurances that there was a pathway to the first team for him.

Exactly this, you would have thought given all the fuss the guy would have started ahead of Onel in the cup and is now being lined up for a loan to Notts County in league 2. With all the fuss you would have thought some Premier League was about to swoop for him.

There is an obvious pathway to the first team for Kamara but come on he needs to impress something it appears he didn’t do in pre season. Max Aarons etc.. took there chances and never looked back.

I do wonder if there is a tiny element of entitlement has developed within the academy.