Is it time to put an arm around Rowe?

[Fen Canary 1,351]

If he’s still here at the end of the window we’d be daft not to play him seeing as he’s one of our better players.

Put him on the pitch, tell him to just take the (deserved) flak he’ll receive for a few weeks and work twice as hard as anybody else on the pitch and eventually his petulant outburst will be forgotten about.

[Mason 47 1,778]

5 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

It's my understanding that he does not respond to authority and is incredibly head strong.  This has been noted by various coaches and people who work within the club and know him, his desire to get to improve and progress to the top is unlike most other players.

Was previously kicked out of the academy for his attitude, but later provided a second chance by the club. (Forbes let this slip on Radio Norfolk last season, I don't think it's widely known as never mentioned.).

Before Oxford he was trying to get pulled out a day or so before the match based on the expectation that he was leaving (One of the pinkun live feeds mentioned this as him 'making excuses' to not play).

So I'd imagine how things shaped from that point is that Thorup told him that he's part of the team, and was expected to play.  And from that point he's responded against it and walked out last minute.

It's just in his character I think.  People talk about agents controlling him and such like, I feel is wide of the mark and feel that this is purely his decision.  But if a move didn't come off, I wouldn't be surprised to see that being used as an excuse to paper up the cracks.

IIRC there's been mention of a couple of issues between him and more senior players when he first started training with the first team i.e. tackling to hurt and showboating.

I think it's reasonably well known that he's a bit volatile. Remains to be seen if he has the ability to back up such lofty self-assessment.

 

[TheGunnShow 7,073]

Shows the difference in character between him and, say, Max Aarons or indeed Christoph Zimmermann. The problem with confidence is that there's a fine line between that and arrogance and yet you can't really have self-belief without it. Rowe's tremendous when his tail is "up".

[Old Shuck 275]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Walk of shame down Prince of Wales Rd seems appropriate

 

No, up it from the bridge, then its uphill all the way...

[......and Smith must score. 1,515]

1 hour ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

It probably is but I doubt he’ll get on the pitch without a grovelling apology.

I don’t think Rowe knows how to do one of those so we could be in for a long wait….

 

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Why do you think that? Do you know him?

No, I don’t know him. Do you ? If you do you must see some hidden humbler qualities that somehow don’t come over in public.

If you do know a different Jon Rowe tell us on here. He needs all the defence he can get.

 

[Kingston Yellow 246]

21 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Piecing many bits together... It's my understanding that he does not respond to authority and is incredibly head strong.  This has been noted by various coaches and people who work within the club and know him, it's said that his desire to improve and get to the top is unlike most other players.

Worth nothing that he was previously kicked out of the academy for his attitude, but later provided a second chance by the club. (Forbes let this slip on Radio Norfolk last season). 

I don't think it's widely known as it's never mentioned when you hear or read anything about 'his story' so far.

Before Oxford he was trying to get pulled out a day or so before the match based on the expectation that he was leaving (One of the pinkun live feeds mentioned this as him 'making excuses' to not play).

So, supposition time...  I'd imagine from that point, Thorup told him that he was an important part of the team, and expected to play.  And from there he's reacted against it and decided to drop out/walk out last minute.

It's just in his character I think.  People talk about agents controlling him and such like, I feel is wide of the mark and feel that this is purely his decision.  But if a move didn't come off, I wouldn't be surprised to see that being used as an excuse to paper up the cracks.

Reports from Sky that he was driving home when we kicked off is what interests me the most, was he dismissed, or did he just up and leave?  For me, that's a massive factor in this and how it relates to fans of the club. 

To not sit and support the team after travelling just seems very bizarre, and quite indicative of the lack of harmony between himself and the club/coach.

Whilst interesting, most of this is irrelevant.
 

He’s either part of the team, or he’s not. Currently he’s not. That’s on him.

He stays until the valuation is met. He has 2 years left on his contract.  We’re in control. Not Rowe.  

[Old Shuck 275]

Has a bit of the Craig Bellamy about him, doesn't he?

Bellers and his I'm better than all of you stance-but he probably was! He was dealt with by a squad with some very big characters in it though & we needed them because Hamilton was his manager at the end of his time here-I doubt Bruce Rioch would have taken any nonsense from him.

He got his big money move but everyone, him included I suspect, was surprised that it was to Coventry-but hr didn't have an agent at the time, so had no reason not to go and see Strachan.

But he got his head down there & Newcastle, Celtic, Liverpool (x2) and Man City followed, so he didn't do so bad.

Rowe needs to match the ego with his ability and consistently, which CB did.

 

[Capt. Pants 4,773]

Way too early for this nonsense, it's barely been a week.

Either he wants to be here or he doesn't, and he doesn't he's made that pretty clear.

He's effectively refused to do his job, so donating a week's wage to charity needs to be a start. Some seem to making a big thing out of his Christianity. It should be an easy first step for him.

It's down to him. 

[Google Bot 3,706]

18 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

Whilst interesting, most of this is irrelevant.

Well, it was in reply to LDC asking 'why' he acted in such a way, so appreciating his mindset and knowing the pieces we do provides some form of 'supposed' context, I guess.

There's also relevance in the way that Thorup dealt with the situation and how he will be dealing with players for the rest of the month. 

If Thorup agreed that Rowe could be left out the day before, as his head wasn't right then we'd not be debating any of this.  But I expect the Idah 'missing his flight' incident has subsequently made him less accommodating.

I'd imagine Rowe has taken it personally, as Idah was left out for the similar reasons that Rowe was denied.  But of course, Idah's exclusion was pre-season, not an opening league fixture.

Edited August 15 by Google Bot

[canarybubbles 2,144]

If the Thorup quote is genuine, I'm disappointed. It just makes Thorup look wishy-washy and weak. In public Rowe may well say the right things if it gets him what he wants. In private he'll be laughing at someone who's such a soft touch.

There's not only the reaction of the fans to think about, but also that of his team-mates. I wonder how they like being let down by an arrogant little prat. I agree with the previous post. This is way too early. Let him stew for a while.

[Carrow89 101]

49 minutes ago, baldy09 said:

Shame the lad thought by refusing to play will advance his departure

I'm not sure that's the reason. Even he would know it was dependent upon the club accepting an offer. Something happened Sat morning, and that is likely to have been 'news' from his agent. Counting your chickens etc

[lake district canary 4,713]

48 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Piecing many bits together... It's my understanding that he does not respond to authority and is incredibly head strong.  This has been noted by various coaches and people who work within the club and know him, it's said that his desire to improve and get to the top is unlike most other players.

Worth nothing that he was previously kicked out of the academy for his attitude, but later provided a second chance by the club. (Forbes let this slip on Radio Norfolk last season). 

I don't think it's widely known as it's never mentioned when you hear or read anything about 'his story' so far.

Before Oxford he was trying to get pulled out a day or so before the match based on the expectation that he was leaving (One of the pinkun live feeds mentioned this as him 'making excuses' to not play).

So, supposition time...  I'd imagine from that point, Thorup told him that he was an important part of the team, and expected to play.  And from there he's reacted against it and decided to drop out/walk out last minute.

It's just in his character I think.  People talk about agents controlling him and such like, I feel is wide of the mark and feel that this is purely his decision.  But if a move didn't come off, I wouldn't be surprised to see that being used as an excuse to paper up the cracks.

Reports from Sky that he was driving home when we kicked off is what interests me the most, was he dismissed, or did he just up and leave?  For me, that's a massive factor in this and how it relates to fans of the club. 

To not sit and support the team after travelling just seems very bizarre, and quite indicative of the lack of harmony between himself and the club/coach.

If all that is true and I have no reason to doubt what you say, then he should stay in the U21s until he is sold, or the transfer window closes. 

No room for prima donnas at the club, we just don't need them. I don't care how good he is, players who can't control their egos are just disruptive to the club. He may get a big club or big money move, but if you annoy the people who try to help you and support you along the way, what is the point?  He should have learned from the Cantwell saga, which still goes on as he is having exactly the same problems at his new club as he did at Norwich. 

The best players learn how to control their ego, or at least not let it spoil their lives. Wannabes struggle to control themselves. If you're good enough, there's no need to try and force it - just play and the rewards will come. 

[Kingston Yellow 246]

59 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Well, it was in reply to LDC asking 'why' he acted in such a way, so appreciating his mindset and knowing the pieces we do provides some form of 'supposed' context, I guess.

There's also relevance in the way that Thorup dealt with the situation and how he will be dealing with players for the rest of the month. 

If Thorup agreed that Rowe could be left out the day before, as his head wasn't right then we'd not be debating any of this.  But I expect the Idah 'missing his flight' incident has subsequently made him less accommodating.

I'd imagine Rowe has taken it personally, as Idah was left out for the similar reasons that Rowe was denied.  But of course, Idah's exclusion was pre-season, not an opening league fixture.

Sorry, I’m lost. Are you saying Thorup agreed Rowe could skip the game? The day before? 

[MC_NCFC 246]

1 hour ago, Carrow89 said:

i think he thought he already had what he wanted - a move away from City, with a much increased contract. Hence him not wanting to play v Oxford lest he was injured. That belief would have been put into his head by his agent

Which dies make you wonder if there is a risk of a recurring injury, otherwise why not carry on until everything is sorted ie transfer completed ?

Of course, he may have been contacted Saturday morning by MC_NCFC who assured him that his transfer to Marseille had gone through earlier.....signed, sealed and delivered being the message 😉

If I was him, I wouldn’t listen to Les 

[norfolkngood 1,171]

2 hours ago, Kingston Yellow said:

 

He’s either part of the team, or he’s not. Currently he’s not. That’s on him.

He stays until the valuation is met. He has 2 years left on his contract.  We’re in control. Not Rowe.  

There is no winners , club or Rowe 

if we say put him into the under 23's for 2 years it harms the club and we are paying for it also no fee 

if we sell him everybody in football knows he wants away  and basically on strike so fee will be cheaper ,

if his mind is made up best to get rid ,

But the way he has acted will be noted by some clubs as if that is his trait it might happen to them in a season or two 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 839]

5 hours ago, norwich canary said:

F@@@ Jonny rowe f@@@ Jonny rowe f@@@ Jonny rowe

he will get a sound booing from me if he ever puts on a yellow and green jersey again 

no player is bigger than the club 

I didn't claim to be bigger than the club mate, I just wanted a bit of this in South France.

Bit bored of Great Yarmouth.

 

[Google Bot 3,706]

1 hour ago, Kingston Yellow said:

Sorry, I’m lost. Are you saying Thorup agreed Rowe could skip the game? The day before? 

No, Thorup agreed that Idah should be excluded from match selection due to his mind not being in the right place during pre-season, but when Rowe came knocking with a similar reason it was turned down.

My point is that without the Idah preface, Rowe's initial request to be left out may have been granted and we wouldn't be discussing this.

i.e. it wasn't as though he woke up that morning and decided he didn't want to play, there is a sequence of events to be taken into consideration.

[Indy 3,425]

To be honest he’s a big boy, he knew the consequences by going this route and he’s not going to sign any contract extension! We only have a year and then a contract extension, if he’s here next summer his value will probably fall! Get rid for max value and settle the squad with players who want to play for the club.

[Duncan Edwards 2,371]

He’s not the first, and nor will he be the last, player to have his head turned. We think about how Max Aarons knuckled down but there aren’t very many of us that will have been in the position where you are essentially being headhunted with astronomical sums of money being bandied around. In that respect, I have some empathy, however, it is built on one, singular, injury interrupted season in the English second tier. Taking that into consideration, I possibly get it even more. He isn’t proven at the top level, has had relatively limited success and he could change his life with one sweep of a pen.

Is that disrespectful to Norwich City? A little. Without us where would he be? By the same token, the answer is “another club”, he’s undoubtedly talented enough to have broken through at, pretty much, any championship club.

As it sits, he’s not in the right headspace to perform at the level expected. Pulling out of stuff to protect against injury and so on would be natural given he could be on the verge of a move that will set him up for life.

I don’t like the way that it has unfolded, but it is probably for the best for the club if he doesn’t play right now. If the window closes and nothing materialises, you’ll see a different player and a different attitude, rotting in the ressies isn’t going to grant him the same opportunity next summer or even in January. The whole transfer window being open into the season causes these situations. If he stays, he will be an asset. If he goes it will be on our terms. It’s just this current purgatory that does nothing for the player, does nothing for the club holding his registration and is a nonsense. In my opinion. 

[dylanisabaddog 5,765]

Apparently he has the same agent as Idah who also threw his toys out of the pram. 

I'm prepared to forgive Rowe because he's very young and not particularly bright. It seems highly likely that he's been taken advantage of by a disgusting agent who is little more than a leech. 

Edit

On the brief occasion I met him I thought he was a nice lad. But I also thought it was a good job he's good at football

Edited August 16 by dylanisabaddog

[canarycop 232]

Johnny just grow a pair and make your own decision. You've made a mistake based on agent advice. You will deserve a bigger move than has been mooted once you have had another season of tearing up the championship. Eat humble pie, apologise and go and prove you are a team player. Then and  only then will you get the move to a Spurs or another top ten team. I'm not an agent but wish I was. I'd give sensible advice and not charge a fortune for it. Agents are all money people and are in it for themselves. They don't care about their clients as long as they are raking it in.

[Cowboy 234]

Certainly not. He's massively over-rated anyway, with serious holes in his game defensively, poor decision-making, team work and inconsistent work rate. Yes he's flashy and exciting at times, but to try to re-integrate him now sends a terrible message to the rest of the squad and would not be worth the effort anyway - the return would almost certainly not be worth it. Sell at whatever the best price might be, which will be well below what some are expecting.

[horsefly 5,145]

Rowe's behaviour was appallingly bad, and fans were morally entitled to vent their anger at his actions. However, none of us know what has happened subsequent to that incident. We don't know the full story about what led to his appalling withdrawal, and we certainly don't know how he has behaved since, nor what discussions he has had with the club. Given our collective ignorance wouldn't it be best to leave this matter to the club to resolve and accept their judgement about how best to move forward? I get the feeling we've reached the stage where fan voices are becoming a hinderance to the club and not a help. When Hoolahan threw his toys out of the pram he was accepted back into the fold and went on perform brilliantly for the club. By contrast Idah (whose toys remained safely within the pram) was effectively hounded out by a minority of boo-boys. It seems to me Thorup has dealt with a very difficult situation well, and is making the right noises about discipline as well as reintegration for Rowe. I may be wrong, but I read his comments as a clear plea to the fans to let him work calmly and constructively with Rowe in the club's best interests. Surely it is right to back his judgement.

[canarybubbles 2,144]

4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Rowe's behaviour was appallingly bad, and fans were morally entitled to vent their anger at his actions. However, none of us know what has happened subsequent to that incident. We don't know the full story about what led to his appalling withdrawal, and we certainly don't know how he has behaved since, nor what discussions he has had with the club. Given our collective ignorance wouldn't it be best to leave this matter to the club to resolve and accept their judgement about how best to move forward? I get the feeling we've reached the stage where fan voices are becoming a hinderance to the club and not a help. When Hoolahan threw his toys out of the pram he was accepted back into the fold and went on perform brilliantly for the club. By contrast Idah (whose toys remained safely within the pram) was effectively hounded out by a minority of boo-boys. It seems to me Thorup has dealt with a very difficult situation well, and is making the right noises about discipline as well as reintegration for Rowe. I may be wrong, but I read his comments as a clear plea to the fans to let him work calmly and constructively with Rowe in the club's best interests. Surely it is right to back his judgement.

All good points. But.

So much depends on the attitude of the rest of the squad, and I hope and trust that Knapper has sounded this out (through Thorup) because ultimately any decision will be Knapper's (and probably the Board's) and not Thorup's. If an early rehabilitation for Rowe ends up with a split dressing room with some players who are very unhappy that such disloyalty can be so swiftly swept aside and ignored, that will not bring about the unity which the club desperately needs at the moment. The performance against Stevenage had many faults, but it was clear from the reactions to Onel's goals that the eleven players on the pitch that night were united. If reintroducing Rowe threatens that unity in any way whatsoever, it should not happen.

Don't forget that, as good as Rowe is individually, the team as a whole did much better last season when he was injured. The sample is relatively small, I know, and it could just be correlation and nothing more, but it could also be that he is bad for team cohesion and togetherness. This episode is significant circumstantial evidence of this, I feel.

You're right that we don't know what has happened behind the scenes since Saturday morning, but Rowe has done nothing publicly as far as I know. No apology to the club or the fans on any social media outlet. He is clearly in the wrong on this and so the onus is on him to mend fences, not his colleagues, not the club, not the fans, but him.

[Mello Yello 2,500]

Like many of the loyal Canary support I am very disappointed with the events of the last seven days concerning Jo Jo Rowe....I understand he aspires to play competitive football at the highest level and it would be rather inconsiderate of our club to deny him that 'big move' opportunity....Gaby Sara (although I was greatly saddened by his departure to pastures new) displayed his maturity, tact, sincerity and diplomacy concerning his recent move to Turkey....and went with well, at least my blessing....

Sara is the model professional in all aspects - and if only all pro-players could emulate Gaby Sara's attitude (chance would be a fine thing)....As I said in another thread it's a shame that young Rowe couldn't take a leaf out of Gaby's book but chose instead to go about 'it' the totally wrong way....Time will tell and young Rowe's either remaining bullish, arrogant and apathetic to the criticism and upset he's created...Or young Rowe will hopefully take stock and look back on the events of the last seven days and be humbled and hopefully attempt to repair the problems he's brought about himself....Only time will tell....

[Capt. Pants 4,773]

Wait until the transfer window is closed, then we'll see. If his 'head wasn't in the right place' last week, whatever that means, then it sure as hell won't be now. 

My hunch is Thorup knows the club are in discussions with suitors and Rowe will leave next week and this apparent softening is just him making himself appear a bit more rounded and conciliatory.

 

 

[horsefly 5,145]

2 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

All good points. But.

So much depends on the attitude of the rest of the squad, and I hope and trust that Knapper has sounded this out (through Thorup) because ultimately any decision will be Knapper's (and probably the Board's) and not Thorup's. If an early rehabilitation for Rowe ends up with a split dressing room with some players who are very unhappy that such disloyalty can be so swiftly swept aside and ignored, that will not bring about the unity which the club desperately needs at the moment. The performance against Stevenage had many faults, but it was clear from the reactions to Onel's goals that the eleven players on the pitch that night were united. If reintroducing Rowe threatens that unity in any way whatsoever, it should not happen.

Don't forget that, as good as Rowe is individually, the team as a whole did much better last season when he was injured. The sample is relatively small, I know, and it could just be correlation and nothing more, but it could also be that he is bad for team cohesion and togetherness. This episode is significant circumstantial evidence of this, I feel.

You're right that we don't know what has happened behind the scenes since Saturday morning, but Rowe has done nothing publicly as far as I know. No apology to the club or the fans on any social media outlet. He is clearly in the wrong on this and so the onus is on him to mend fences, not his colleagues, not the club, not the fans, but him.

Agree with most of that. But I think you confirm my point that we should let Thorup and Knapper (who do know all the details) sort this out as they deem to be in the club's best interests. We may eventually find out that Rowe's behaviour was much worse than we thought, or we may find out that it wasn't as bad and was a result of a malign outside influence on a young mind (cf. Hoolahan who I'm sure was being wound up by a resentful Lambert). The point is we are in ignorance of these facts and Thorup and Knapper are not. I just think we would do the club a favour by giving them the space to resolve it in the way they see to be in our best interests. 

[canarybubbles 2,144]

4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Wait until the transfer window is closed, then we'll see. If his 'head wasn't in the right place' last week, whatever that means, then it sure as hell won't be now. 

My hunch is Thorup knows the club are in discussions with suitors and Rowe will leave next week and this apparent softening is just him making himself appear a bit more rounded and conciliatory.

 

 

I really hope you are right. We need a united squad because this is going to be a tough season. Disunity could make the difference between mid-table and struggling. There have been many teams in the Championship who suddenly hit a downward spiral and then can't stop it, including ourselves more than a decade ago.

[Blofield Canary 12]

Am I surprised this happened.....No.  On reflection Rowe has never been a team player. If you analyse his game time his apparent rise to stardom is based on instances of brilliance rather than consistent good play. His defensive contribution is weak as is his overall game. His career can go either way at this stage, its up to him which way it goes. 

In some respects this shows the lack of on field leadership at the club. One of the senior players should be taking him to one side and have a word in his ear about his attitude and behavior.  A few choice words from Grant Hanley, Shane Duffy or even the Mayor would not go amiss. Let him know what his team mates think of his behavior.

Is there a way back for him?.......yes but it will be very difficult.  The crowd were abusing him Tuesday night and he wasn't even there. He is going to need thick skin if he steps back on the pitch at Carrow Road. I suspect a midweek away game with few Norwich fans in attendance might be the option. It will need a very public admission of his stupidity and an apology to the club, players and fans but I honestly feel he is too arrogant to do this. 

Often the agent is to blame for these incidents but in my opinion this is Mr Rowe himself.

[chicken 3,000]

I'm going to be really blunt. The answer has to be yes.

It's also not 'weak' to sit down, talk with a player and offer them a route back. IMHO, it's a sign of a good, strong manager.

Roy Keane speaks of faling out with team mates and Sir Alex. It doesn't take long watching the likes of Gary Neville to see that despite his initial demeanor there is more to him. The same if you watch the footage where he is attacked by a muppet fan, Micah Richards is straight to his defence and he doesn't retaliate.

Being a good manager is about managing these personalities and making them work. Ibrahimovic, C.Ronaldo, Arnautovic, Grealish... the higher you go in football the higher the frequency of these stronger personalities. Henry, Viera, Bergkamp too, but theirs was more about unity. In the same way that Iwan recalls getting revenge on Bellamy with others.

Beyond that, as @Feedthewolf has said it's money. You don't want a player sitting in the U21's if you want to sell them. It gives the impression you don't want them, which means clubs are less likely to meet your valuation.

Work with them, get their heads back in the game, get them back in the squad and you send the message that this player is valuable to you, and you are prepared to work with them still.

It's a complete lose-lose if you consign them to the U21's. Maybe some humble pie and groveling to the first team squad first?