Thorup, Farke, Lambert

[king canary 8,933]

Who do we think had the toughest task when they took over?

On paper you'd say Thorup has it easiest- taking over a team that finished 6th last season vs Farke taking over one that finished 8th and Lambert taking over one bottom on League One after finishing 22nd in the Championship the year before.

Saying that, Farke took over a squad with parachute payments, containing players like Alex Prithchard, Wes Hoolahan, Alex Tettey, Josh Murphy and Timm Klose, not to mention Maddison waiting in the wings. There was also enough wiggle room in the teransfer budget to bring in 10 new players for the first team just in the summer (Hanley, Franke, Husband, Steipermann, Vrancic, Trybull, Zimmerman, Watkins, Reed and Gunn) either permanently on loan. He lost Jacob Murphy and Johnny Howson in the summer but both of those deals were done early.

Lambert also took over a team that was completely shattered confidence wise but also did contain players like Holt, Hoolahan and Martin, all of whom were a cut above your average League One side.

Thorup is taking over a team where we're hamstrung financially by old players on big wages (Hanley, Duffy and Barnes), no parachute payments and dealing with the sale of our best player a week before the first game of the season and another top player trying to force a move through after being a key man all preseason. 

Personally I'll always think Lambert walked into the toughest situation but if you asked me would I rather take over the squad and club Farke had or the one Thorup has right now I'd say Farke.

[Walcombe canary 82]

In JHT's defence. the Club are looking to offload, and cut costs. Turnover the old, and refresh with younger inexperienced players. And from what I read on here, the older players still here aren't rated very highly. Anybody of reasonable talent can be sold off. That leaves JHT in trouble. and not knowing who will be here come the end of the Transfer Window.

No doubt Farke's first task here was similar to JHT.

What Lambert did here was different, and a pleasure to witness. It must mean something to a player when you are getting instructions in League One, from a Champions League Winner. 

JHT and The Clubs new direction is a gamble. And must be given time. Hope it all comes together very soon, for you loyal supporters

[canarydan23 4,823]

26 minutes ago, king canary said:

Personally I'll always think Lambert walked into the toughest situation but if you asked me would I rather take over the squad and club Farke had or the one Thorup has right now I'd say Farke.

I actually think Thorup has it hardest. The expectation (dare I say entitlement?) among Norwich fans post-Farke has risen to pretty irrational levels.

Lambert obviously took over when we were in League One, and after a battering v Colchester, but he still took over a squad that were favourites for automatic promotion and he duly delivered.

And like you say, Farke came in with a chunk of sellable assets and parachute payments that could be used to fund a new project with a fanbase that could just about tolerate us only finishing top 10. And he didn't have any useless, aging players gobbling up a massive amount of the wage budget.

Thorup has so many more constraints to deal with, less money to fund a project, vanishingly few sellable assets, no ability to blow transfer competition out of the water with big contract offers (as we did with Pukki) and a fanbase that will probably be booing at half-time on Saturday if we're not winning. Whereas Farke was able to sell several big earners, no one is prepared to buy the likes of Barnes, Duffy, Hanley and McLean; if Thorup could get their wages off the books and free up the ability to make 8-10 signings like Farke was able to, we'd be feeling a lot more confident about the coming season. As it is, his hands are tied massively and even if we sell Rowe and Idah to get some transfer funds in, it won't reduce the wage budget significantly enough to create much wiggle room in that department.

Winning the title in Farke's second season was miraculous. If Thorup does it, you'd need to invent a word more superlative than miracle.

[Barbe bleu 1,032]

The task for lambert in year one was to get promotion. He did that, but even without the holts, hoolahans, drurys and martins that squad could have more than  held its own and would have probably challenged.  Also, after the shock of the first game things had already settled a bit and last place was not ever going to be a reflection of the season, even with the same staff.

This feels like a tough year.  Expectation but little hope from the supporters  and no prospect of squad improvement.  Are the Olympics still on? I think that will be the sporting highlight of the year to be honest.

Edited August 12, 2024 by Barbe bleu

[king canary 8,933]

10 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I actually think Thorup has it hardest. The expectation (dare I say entitlement?) among Norwich fans post-Farke has risen to pretty irrational levels.

Lambert obviously took over when we were in League One, and after a battering v Colchester, but he still took over a squad that were favourites for automatic promotion and he duly delivered.

And like you say, Farke came in with a chunk of sellable assets and parachute payments that could be used to fund a new project with a fanbase that could just about tolerate us only finishing top 10. And he didn't have any useless, aging players gobbling up a massive amount of the wage budget.

Thorup has so many more constraints to deal with, less money to fund a project, vanishingly few sellable assets, no ability to blow transfer competition out of the water with big contract offers (as we did with Pukki) and a fanbase that will probably be booing at half-time on Saturday if we're not winning. Whereas Farke was able to sell several big earners, no one is prepared to buy the likes of Barnes, Duffy, Hanley and McLean; if Thorup could get their wages off the books and free up the ability to make 8-10 signings like Farke was able to, we'd be feeling a lot more confident about the coming season. As it is, his hands are tied massively and even if we sell Rowe and Idah to get some transfer funds in, it won't reduce the wage budget significantly enough to create much wiggle room in that department.

Winning the title in Farke's second season was miraculous. If Thorup does it, you'd need to invent a word more superlative than miracle.

I largely agree with you but the part in bold isn't really true- Russell Martin, Steven Naismith, Yanic Wildschutt and Matt Jarvis were all eating up wage budget in that first season. 

[canarydan23 4,823]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I largely agree with you but the part in bold isn't really true- Russell Martin, Steven Naismith, Yanic Wildschutt and Matt Jarvis were all eating up wage budget in that first season. 

Only for the first few months, whilst we still had to stump up the majority of Naismith's salary, some of his was taken care of by Hearts from January and the majority of Martin and Wildschut's was taken care of by Rangers and Cardiff respectively. I doubt we will find anyone loan in Hanley, Barnes or Duffy and take on any more than a minimal amount of their salary.

[shefcanary 3,074]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Who do we think had the toughest task when they took over?

On paper you'd say Thorup has it easiest- taking over a team that finished 6th last season vs Farke taking over one that finished 8th and Lambert taking over one bottom on League One after finishing 22nd in the Championship the year before.

Saying that, Farke took over a squad with parachute payments, containing players like Alex Prithchard, Wes Hoolahan, Alex Tettey, Josh Murphy and Timm Klose, not to mention Maddison waiting in the wings. There was also enough wiggle room in the teransfer budget to bring in 10 new players for the first team just in the summer (Hanley, Franke, Husband, Steipermann, Vrancic, Trybull, Zimmerman, Watkins, Reed and Gunn) either permanently on loan. He lost Jacob Murphy and Johnny Howson in the summer but both of those deals were done early.

Lambert also took over a team that was completely shattered confidence wise but also did contain players like Holt, Hoolahan and Martin, all of whom were a cut above your average League One side.

Thorup is taking over a team where we're hamstrung financially by old players on big wages (Hanley, Duffy and Barnes), no parachute payments and dealing with the sale of our best player a week before the first game of the season and another top player trying to force a move through after being a key man all preseason. 

Personally I'll always think Lambert walked into the toughest situation but if you asked me would I rather take over the squad and club Farke had or the one Thorup has right now I'd say Farke.

But Lambert was already operating at that level (L1) and knew the quality of opposition he was facing. It's a completely new competition for Thorup, the expectation from fans is much higher, the pressure to succeed and quickly is much higher. Nah, Hoff T has had much the harder job!

[Segura 101]

Feel sorry for JHT and as with other posters, think he has the hardest job of the lot in comparison but it's big step up and great challenge for him, so lets see what he's made of.

This week could be very interesting, I've gone from looking forward to the Blackburn game to now possibly dreading it, but sounds like there will be more incomings/outgoings to come, which could change things by Saturday.

By comparison, Lambert walked into a highly unusual situation at Norwich, but once the dust settled had a very good team for that level. He must be credited with bringing in Forster an absolute beast of a keeper and recalling the much-maligned Ginger Pele, who for all his foibles was a decent operator in LG1. What happened in the next two seasons was the stuff of pure fantasy, but looking back it does seem this more due to momentum and player ability rather than the second coming of Brian Clough, as I once foolishly proclaimed him.

Farke inherited a decent if bloated squad but still had plenty of work to do. His first season was also unusual and not always a great watch but as others have said, you could see signs of what he was trying to do. That 2018-19 is up there with Lambert and Mike Walker part 1. However, even now I look back and am surprised how badly we struggled in the Prem the next season. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a better chance to establish ourselves in the Prem than we did in 2019.

[hogesar 10,935]

Most managers realistically get appointed because the team was under-achieving with the previous management, so they're picking up from a low point.

However, contrary to the thoughts of @sgncfc and a few others, I don't think we under-performed at all last season. Perhaps the first 10 games this season will be even more evidence of that.

Like you say @king canary, on paper he had the "luxury" of a top 6 team. The problem is I think that's the maximum this squad was, and the expectancy is still quite high as a result of our run last season.

So there's not a huge amount of room for improvement without integrating young players who take off quickly, or new signings - we didn't see much of either in his first game. If the glass-ceiling for this squad is top 6 it's hard for Thorup to instantly deliver much better.

So for me the focus had to be on performance and seeing a style change as that's something Thorup can control even if it doesn't create the results. Unfortunately we saw zero style Saturday.

I sometimes think taking over at a clubs lowest ebb is a positive, there's almost only one direction to go in, so I think Lambert had one of the least difficult tasks, but don't underestimate the financial problems and what our incredible double-promotion fixed for us.

It's very much a throw-up (no pun intended) between Farke and Thorup for me. Worth noting in that Fulham first game, we had Martin, Franke, Husband, Wildshut, Jerome and Watkins all starting for us. We drew 1-1 and you could instantly see a change of style from the season before.

[Monty13 2,796]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Most managers realistically get appointed because the team was under-achieving with the previous management, so they're picking up from a low point.

However, contrary to the thoughts of @sgncfc and a few others, I don't think we under-performed at all last season. Perhaps the first 10 games this season will be even more evidence of that.

Like you say @king canary, on paper he had the "luxury" of a top 6 team. The problem is I think that's the maximum this squad was, and the expectancy is still quite high as a result of our run last season.

So there's not a huge amount of room for improvement without integrating young players who take off quickly, or new signings - we didn't see much of either in his first game. If the glass-ceiling for this squad is top 6 it's hard for Thorup to instantly deliver much better.

So for me the focus had to be on performance and seeing a style change as that's something Thorup can control even if it doesn't create the results. Unfortunately we saw zero style Saturday.

I sometimes think taking over at a clubs lowest ebb is a positive, there's almost only one direction to go in, so I think Lambert had one of the least difficult tasks, but don't underestimate the financial problems and what our incredible double-promotion fixed for us.

It's very much a throw-up (no pun intended) between Farke and Thorup for me. Worth noting in that Fulham first game, we had Martin, Franke, Husband, Wildshut, Jerome and Watkins all starting for us. We drew 1-1 and you could instantly see a change of style from the season before.

I think we probably just about performed as expected last year, maybe slightly overperformed. We underperformed in the firsts half of the season then we overperformed in the back half.

I think the key difference between Farke and Thorup eras is we still had parachute payments. Attanasio is a big backstop against a financial crisis but he can’t change the requirements the club needs to operate under financially and operating income is significantly reduced.

I pretty much agree with the observations here but thats one of the key difference for me. Add in the fact we reached the playoffs last year (ignoring our gutless performance) and that’s why I think the current regime has it hardest. 

Edited August 12, 2024 by Monty13

[Monty13 2,796]

32 minutes ago, Segura said:

Feel sorry for JHT and as with other posters, think he has the hardest job of the lot in comparison but it's big step up and great challenge for him, so lets see what he's made of.

This week could be very interesting, I've gone from looking forward to the Blackburn game to now possibly dreading it, but sounds like there will be more incomings/outgoings to come, which could change things by Saturday.

By comparison, Lambert walked into a highly unusual situation at Norwich, but once the dust settled had a very good team for that level. He must be credited with bringing in Forster an absolute beast of a keeper and recalling the much-maligned Ginger Pele, who for all his foibles was a decent operator in LG1. What happened in the next two seasons was the stuff of pure fantasy, but looking back it does seem this more due to momentum and player ability rather than the second coming of Brian Clough, as I once foolishly proclaimed him.

Farke inherited a decent if bloated squad but still had plenty of work to do. His first season was also unusual and not always a great watch but as others have said, you could see signs of what he was trying to do. That 2018-19 is up there with Lambert and Mike Walker part 1. However, even now I look back and am surprised how badly we struggled in the Prem the next season. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a better chance to establish ourselves in the Prem than we did in 2019.

Parma always talks about momentum and I think it’s key to greater success in any organisation not just top level sport. 

We’ve been heading in full retreat for a while, yes there’s been a few arrests of that decline but it’s all been papering over the cracks for me.

We need to reset and start building some forward momentum, we aren’t even a position to start going forwards yet IMO, we are still planning.

[Danke bitte 1,197]

I think it’s a good question. Though I would say Thorup has taken over from a position where there’s a lot of fans with high expectations from the takeover and, for Norwich at least, a relatively successful 10+ years, coming off the back to Farke and an indifferent 2/3 seasons.

I think fan patience is a lot lower than when Lambert and Farke took over. Let’s face it, we’ve all heard the “this time we’re going to become an established Premier League side which plays attractive football etc” before. And we’re probably further away than we’ve been in years from that goal.

It’s jarring when you see the amount of money spent on our infrastructure (the Sky Sports pool hall video springs to mind) and getting the academy into a top class facility only to abandon that path for 3 seasons. 

Thorup not only has to navigate our cynicism but also fan patience. He’s come into a fairly stormy water with idealism and a pedigree that has no English football experience. 

He also has to work with experienced players which are shot to **** though. It’s a perfect storm. In my opinion I think he’s had the toughest hand. Mostly because our fan expectations are now so high, any less than play offs is now deemed as a failure.

I hope it works out for him but boy does he have a job on his hands.
 

 

[king canary 8,933]

5 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I think we probably just about performed as expected last year, maybe slightly overperformed. We underperformed in the firsts half of the season then we overperformed in the back half.

I think the key difference between Farke and Thorup eras is we still had parachute payments. Attanasio is a big backstop against a financial crisis but he can’t change the requirements the club needs to operate under financially and operating income is significantly reduced.

I pretty much agree with the observations here but thats one of the key difference for me. Add in the fact we reached the playoffs last year (ignoring our gutless performance) and that’s why I think the current regime has it hardest. 

I think last season is an odd one- yes finishing top 6 was a decent performance but at the same point we never actually looked like a team that would be promoted. I don't think the humping we got vs Leeds really shocked anyone. 

I agree about parachute payments. As mentioned in the first post we were actually able to add 10 new first teamers in one transfer window and the vast majority were in for most of preseason- only Hanley and Steiperman arrived after the season opener. So Farke had a squad built with his style of football in mind before we'd started the season, even if they didn't all start straight away.

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Worth noting in that Fulham first game, we had Martin, Franke, Husband, Wildshut, Jerome and Watkins all starting for us.

Mentioned this is another thread but it is worth noting that half of those players you list were signed that summer by Webber so, in theory, should have been those who fit the style we wanted to play. The starting XI v Fulham actually only featured four players who weren't recruited that summer and one of those was Maddison so I'm not hugely surprised the style looked more apparent there, even if some of those signings weren't actually very good.

[king canary 8,933]

Just looking at the moves we made in 17-18 and I'd suggest the situation Thorup is in is a bit like if we'd asked Farke to style up while still being stuck with Michael Turner, Graham Dorrans, Youseff Mulumbu and Kyle Lafferty, instead of Vrancic, Zimmerman, Trybull and Steipermann. 

[Nuff Said 6,041]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Parma always talks about momentum and I think it’s key to greater success in any organisation not just top level sport. 

We’ve been heading in full retreat for a while, yes there’s been a few arrests of that decline but it’s all been papering over the cracks for me.

We need to reset and start building some forward momentum, we aren’t even a position to start going forwards yet IMO, we are still planning.

We finished 13th in 22-23 and 6th in 23-24. I get that there are other circumstances that mean we are declining in some ways but position in the table is the bottom line and that does look like forward momentum.

[repman 808]

32 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

We finished 13th in 22-23 and 6th in 23-24. I get that there are other circumstances that mean we are declining in some ways but position in the table is the bottom line and that does look like forward momentum.

I get this point but the squad building last summer meant that it was hard to plot a course over 2/3 years for that team. It was very much us going all in on promotion and it didn't work out. We've already lost the best player out of that team and another one of the key young stars is seemingly on the outs too. A lot of that side too was 30+ and it's hard to project them improving at this point. 

I think last year we basically papered over the cracks of decline. It worked out reasonably well in the short term, 13th to 6th as you said, but we're not faced with the challenge of doing that again and the club can't afford to keep going on like that.

[TheBaldOne66 768]

Lambert had to get us out of League One straight away or we would have gone bankrupt, so it’s no contest really 

[king canary 8,933]

2 hours ago, Segura said:

By comparison, Lambert walked into a highly unusual situation at Norwich, but once the dust settled had a very good team for that level. He must be credited with bringing in Forster an absolute beast of a keeper and recalling the much-maligned Ginger Pele, who for all his foibles was a decent operator in LG1. What happened in the next two seasons was the stuff of pure fantasy, but looking back it does seem this more due to momentum and player ability rather than the second coming of Brian Clough, as I once foolishly proclaimed him.

One thing I would say is that Lambert deserves credit for creating that momentum. Plenty of teams have gone down to League One with squads that should have been too good for that level and struggled for several seasons. The fact he took the team from its lowest ebb to losing only once in 20 games between September and February still takes some doing, even if he wasn't a long term managerial genius elsewhere. 

[sgncfc 1,345]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Most managers realistically get appointed because the team was under-achieving with the previous management, so they're picking up from a low point.

However, contrary to the thoughts of @sgncfc and a few others, I don't think we under-performed at all last season. Perhaps the first 10 games this season will be even more evidence of that.

Like you say @king canary, on paper he had the "luxury" of a top 6 team. The problem is I think that's the maximum this squad was, and the expectancy is still quite high as a result of our run last season.

So there's not a huge amount of room for improvement without integrating young players who take off quickly, or new signings - we didn't see much of either in his first game. If the glass-ceiling for this squad is top 6 it's hard for Thorup to instantly deliver much better.

So for me the focus had to be on performance and seeing a style change as that's something Thorup can control even if it doesn't create the results. Unfortunately we saw zero style Saturday.

I sometimes think taking over at a clubs lowest ebb is a positive, there's almost only one direction to go in, so I think Lambert had one of the least difficult tasks, but don't underestimate the financial problems and what our incredible double-promotion fixed for us.

It's very much a throw-up (no pun intended) between Farke and Thorup for me. Worth noting in that Fulham first game, we had Martin, Franke, Husband, Wildshut, Jerome and Watkins all starting for us. We drew 1-1 and you could instantly see a change of style from the season before.

Hoggy, I really think you're losing it. You used to be so even and sensible. Even in that game against Oxford you could see we were trying at times to pass the ball quicker and using more invention through the lines; we couldn't deal with their press, but that will come when we have the players. Until Oxford scored we looked OK - but you couldn't see a style change? Plus we lost our two best players from last season's squad, Sara and Rowe and have yet to replace them. Plus Doyle was clearly not in synch with his teammates. Plus new players were either unfit or had barely trained.

A Wagner team using last season's squad would still have lost that game in similar fashion - unless Sara or Rowe did something individually outstanding. At least now we have some hope that as a team we might have a clue in a few weeks how to play football.

You'll be telling me next that Southgate got the best he could out of the players available for England......🤣🤣.

 

[lake district canary 4,875]

I think Hoff has the hardest task. Lambert had some decent players who were there for the medium long term for him (Holt/Wes to name two. Farke had to rebuild, but from a decent level.  Hoff has to build from the ground up from a pretty low level (the way we capitulated in the play off against leeds showed how far below the level we needed to be).

I would go so far as to say we could struggle to stay in the league this season. A bad start, aging players still in the team, no momentum, very competitive opposition throughout the league, all means it's going to be tough. Priority is to get results sufficient to stay in the league and that would be success imo, with a push for promotion in season 2 and if necessary season 3.

Hoff has it all to do and I hope fans will give him the time needed.

Edited August 12, 2024 by lake district canary

[Yobocop 1,471]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

Who do we think had the toughest task when they took over?

On paper you'd say Thorup has it easiest- taking over a team that finished 6th last season vs Farke taking over one that finished 8th and Lambert taking over one bottom on League One after finishing 22nd in the Championship the year before.

Saying that, Farke took over a squad with parachute payments, containing players like Alex Prithchard, Wes Hoolahan, Alex Tettey, Josh Murphy and Timm Klose, not to mention Maddison waiting in the wings. There was also enough wiggle room in the teransfer budget to bring in 10 new players for the first team just in the summer (Hanley, Franke, Husband, Steipermann, Vrancic, Trybull, Zimmerman, Watkins, Reed and Gunn) either permanently on loan. He lost Jacob Murphy and Johnny Howson in the summer but both of those deals were done early.

Lambert also took over a team that was completely shattered confidence wise but also did contain players like Holt, Hoolahan and Martin, all of whom were a cut above your average League One side.

Thorup is taking over a team where we're hamstrung financially by old players on big wages (Hanley, Duffy and Barnes), no parachute payments and dealing with the sale of our best player a week before the first game of the season and another top player trying to force a move through after being a key man all preseason. 

Personally I'll always think Lambert walked into the toughest situation but if you asked me would I rather take over the squad and club Farke had or the one Thorup has right now I'd say Farke.

Lambert without a doubt

Walked into the club on its knees just being spanked at home against Colchester, made a few slight adjustments and got us firing to the premier league in successive seasons and kept us there 

[Mason 47 2,016]

Thorup entirely.

[Midlands Yellow 4,704]

Good name for a veterinary practice or an ITV detective drama. 

[Barbe bleu 1,032]

3 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Lambert without a doubt

Walked into the club on its knees just being spanked at home against Colchester, made a few slight adjustments and got us firing to the premier league in successive seasons and kept us there 

Isn't that the point though? It only took lambert a few slight adjustments to get that squad 9 points clear at the end of the season. 

And yes, we got spanked at Colchester but after that it was a win and a draw wasn't it?

I don't understand how people say lambert had a tough job when that squad has two of the greatest players in recent NCFC history in it and the squad had quite a few full internationals iirc.

[Mark .Y. 375]

6 hours ago, hogesar said:

Most managers realistically get appointed because the team was under-achieving with the previous management, so they're picking up from a low point.

However, contrary to the thoughts of @sgncfc and a few others, I don't think we under-performed at all last season. Perhaps the first 10 games this season will be even more evidence of that.

Like you say @king canary, on paper he had the "luxury" of a top 6 team. The problem is I think that's the maximum this squad was, and the expectancy is still quite high as a result of our run last season.

So there's not a huge amount of room for improvement without integrating young players who take off quickly, or new signings - we didn't see much of either in his first game. If the glass-ceiling for this squad is top 6 it's hard for Thorup to instantly deliver much better.

So for me the focus had to be on performance and seeing a style change as that's something Thorup can control even if it doesn't create the results. Unfortunately we saw zero style Saturday.

I sometimes think taking over at a clubs lowest ebb is a positive, there's almost only one direction to go in, so I think Lambert had one of the least difficult tasks, but don't underestimate the financial problems and what our incredible double-promotion fixed for us.

It's very much a throw-up (no pun intended) between Farke and Thorup for me. Worth noting in that Fulham first game, we had Martin, Franke, Husband, Wildshut, Jerome and Watkins all starting for us. We drew 1-1 and you could instantly see a change of style from the season before.

Given that we have neither of our two best "weapons" from last year in the team any longer, I can't see that results from this season can in any way be compared to last's.

[king canary 8,933]

35 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Isn't that the point though? It only took lambert a few slight adjustments to get that squad 9 points clear at the end of the season. 

And yes, we got spanked at Colchester but after that it was a win and a draw wasn't it?

I don't understand how people say lambert had a tough job when that squad has two of the greatest players in recent NCFC history in it and the squad had quite a few full internationals iirc.

A few reasons...

1- the club was at its lowest ebb confidence wise not just because of Colchester but also because of a terrible relegation season the year before. 

2- finances were tight, we'd had to sell players, beg fans not take rebates and renegotiate with banks to prevent crisis

3- the Glenn Roeder loanee policy had decimated the squad, leaving us hugely short on quality and quantity which led directly to...

4- ...whatever transfer budget we had that season had been spunked by his predecessor on such quality as Owain Tudor Jones, Goran Maric and Simon Whalley. And finally...

5- the view that it wasn't a tough job because we had Holt and Hoolahan is somewhat hindsight driven. Holt has spent last season in League Two and Hoolahan was largely seen as a talented but lightweight, slow and one footed luxury who we might be better off selling. There is sometimes an assumption they would inevitably have become the players they did but it was Lambert who got the best out of them.

 

[Barbe bleu 1,032]

19 minutes ago, king canary said:

A few reasons...

1- the club was at its lowest ebb confidence wise not just because of Colchester but also because of a terrible relegation season the year before. 

2- finances were tight, we'd had to sell players, beg fans not take rebates and renegotiate with banks to prevent crisis

3- the Glenn Roeder loanee policy had decimated the squad, leaving us hugely short on quality and quantity which led directly to...

4- ...whatever transfer budget we had that season had been spunked by his predecessor on such quality as Owain Tudor Jones, Goran Maric and Simon Whalley. And finally...

5- the view that it wasn't a tough job because we had Holt and Hoolahan is somewhat hindsight driven. Holt has spent last season in League Two and Hoolahan was largely seen as a talented but lightweight, slow and one footed luxury who we might be better off selling. There is sometimes an assumption they would inevitably have become the players they did but it was Lambert who got the best out of them.

 

I don't doubt that the club was in a mess but the question was specific about the manager.   I just can't look beyond the fact that the only clubs with a squad, staff and facilities that compared to ours were Leeds and Southampton(-10 points).  

Sure roeder (and the guy before him) signed some dross in the championship but when lambert joined we were in league one and could probably put out a full team of full and U21 internationals against Carlisle or Exeter. Sure, some of that squad looked bad in comparison to some of the teams we put out in later years but even the cloggers were capable of doing the business in league one.

Take your point on hoolahan and Holt.  They were more of an unknown quantity going into that season but they were fantastic players because they were fantastic players, not because lambert gave them magic dust- as they later proved by doing the business in higher leagues under different managers 

Edited August 12, 2024 by Barbe bleu

[mrdi 418]

5 hours ago, king canary said:

One thing I would say is that Lambert deserves credit for creating that momentum. Plenty of teams have gone down to League One with squads that should have been too good for that level and struggled for several seasons. The fact he took the team from its lowest ebb to losing only once in 20 games between September and February still takes some doing, even if he wasn't a long term managerial genius elsewhere. 

Lambert also deserves credit for teeing it all up by being the manager who beat us 7-1 on that opening day. While we were so bad it was funny, that was some interview. 

[Yobocop 1,471]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Isn't that the point though? It only took lambert a few slight adjustments to get that squad 9 points clear at the end of the season. 

And yes, we got spanked at Colchester but after that it was a win and a draw wasn't it?

I don't understand how people say lambert had a tough job when that squad has two of the greatest players in recent NCFC history in it and the squad had quite a few full internationals iirc.

And then what about the following season, not to mention the season after that where he’s kept us in the premier league. 

I still vote lambert as the club was in a right state prior to his arrival 

[Barbe bleu 1,032]

45 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

And then what about the following season, not to mention the season after that where he’s kept us in the premier league. 

I still vote lambert as the club was in a right state prior to his arrival 

Ah he did great in years 2 and 3.  But the question was about the task for that year wasn't it?