Is it time to say goodbye to Sara?

[Cantiaci Canary 610]

 

[ron obvious 1,733]

Also on Reeve's account:

https://x.com/i/status/1818930471306219542

[Monty13 2,811]

https://x.com/cjsouthwell1902/status/1819491075708321804?s=46&t=3Axhj2X2NX40rKNDX6ZHbw
 

23 million Euro is just shy of £20 million pounds (+3 add ons).

Very sad to see him go but was inevitable and decent business if true I suppose given the market. Can’t help feeling he deserved a PL shot though.

Big boots need filling, first real big test for Knapper.

[kick it off 2,063]

2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

They sold Sacha Boey for £35m in January and have agreed a deal worth £18m for Zainolo, so they are a little flushed for cash at the moment. 

Sara does represent a huge deal for them though and he will have to do exceptionally well for them to turn much of a profit on him. 

 

Couple of other things at play here too - They only just beat Fener to the title last season after Fener have been out in the wilderness for a while. Fener responded to narrowly missing the title by sacking the manager and installing Mourinho. Fener are backing Mourinho with cash (doubt he'd have gone there otherwise) and have already made some fairly hefty transfers - En-Nesyri for £20mill - although this was to replace Batshuayi who went to Galatasaray on a free, Saint-Maximin on loan, Soyuncu, Krunic loan made permanent, Aydin..... and are looking to do more significant business (Hijacking United's deal for Amrabat being the latest rumour, also heavily linked with Kovacic, McTominay, Lauriente etc).

The Turkish league has been weak for years, and Gala/Fener haven't dominated like they once did, but this looks set to be a bit of an arms race between the two so may well go back into a cycle of them being particularly strong compared to recent levels.

Easy to see why Sara would go - Champs League and very favourable tax structure in Turkey means players keep more of their money. I would imagine that he sees Champs League/European competition as a shop window to get a move that he really wants, and earning piles of cash in one of the most incredible cities on the planet is nice window dressing.

Edited August 3, 2024 by kick it off

[Google Bot 4,003]

Gutted, but so glad to have had him as a player here - it's a real shame that he joined us during a transitional period as seeing how he performed in the prem league was something we all wanted to see.

Surprised he's going to a Turkish club in all honesty, I hope it works out as he seems such a genuinely nice guy.  I'd love to see him turn out tomorrow so we can give him a send off... As slim as that seems now.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 1,056]

2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Sara and Sargent were the only thing that elevated us above the general throng of clubs in this league to being a top 6 side last season...and are/were the only things that may have done this forthcoming season

Sainz can feel somewhat hard done by here?

I'm less convinced by Rowe, I'm yet to be fully convinced that he's a top level talent with the determination to fully succeed in football, rather than a player who had a purple patch, I was hoping it it be Rowe we flogged as I've just got a hunch that last season will be his best in football (much like Cantwells full Prem season).

[PurpleCanary 6,466]

18 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Couple of other things at play here too - They only just beat Fener to the title last season after Fener have been out in the wilderness for a while. Fener responded to narrowly missing the title by sacking the manager and installing Mourinho. Fener are backing Mourinho with cash (doubt he'd have gone there otherwise) and have already made some fairly hefty transfers - En-Nesyri for £20mill - although this was to replace Batshuayi who went to Galatasaray on a free, Saint-Maximin on loan, Soyuncu, Krunic loan made permanent, Aydin..... and are looking to do more significant business (Hijacking United's deal for Amrabat being the latest rumour, also heavily linked with Kovacic, McTominay, Lauriente etc).

The Turkish league has been weak for years, and Gala/Fener haven't dominated like they once did, but this looks set to be a bit of an arms race between the two so may well go back into a cycle of them being particularly strong compared to recent levels.

Easy to see why Sara would go - Champs League and very favourable tax structure in Turkey means players keep more of their money. I would imagine that he sees Champs League/European competition as a shop window to get a move that he really wants, and earning piles of cash in one of the most incredible cities on the planet is nice window dressing.

Thanks. That he has got a big move, with Champions League football, despite only playing for us in the Championship, should help us to attract more talent from South America. We should be seen as a stepping-stone rather than a dead end.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,500]

45 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Easy to see why Sara would go - Champs League and very favourable tax structure in Turkey means players keep more of their money. I would imagine that he sees Champs League/European competition as a shop window to get a move that he really wants, and earning piles of cash in one of the most incredible cities on the planet is nice window dressing.

For me, the biggest risk for Sara is Gala are hard to buy players from and it can be a dead end. 

If the Prem is Sara’s ultimate aim, then going to Turkey isn’t a great route as it isn’t a league that Prem teams often look to shop in due to large prices and low confidence in the level of competition. 

I suspect his agent has been told that there aren’t any Prem teams looking to pay £20m for him this season and thus his options are fairly limited. Another season in the Champions was only going to be a risk of limiting his options, especially if Norwich have a transitional season and his personal numbers suffer as a result. 

Gala will be an instant pay increase and there is a history of Brazilians going to the league. Will be interesting to see where his career goes from here, but unless he is really exceptional out in Turkey he will find it hard to get an upward move in the short term. 
 

 

[Jimmy Raggatip 66]

Disappointed in the destination although I suppose half glad he hasn't stayed in England (although an English side may have paid slightly more)

 

No confidence in Delia and co re-investing this dough.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,076]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Leeds literally selling Sommerville but ok

1 club out of 24 but ok

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,076]

I'll cling to the fact that we won the league the season after we sold Maddison

That was in large part due to webber/farke then signing Pukki and Buendia together with using their knowledge of German football to sign half a dozen Germans.

Lets now see what Knapper has got.

He's already made the call to replace a manager who got us jnto the playoffs, lets now see what he can do in the transfer market

[Newtopia 583]

A shame to lose him, but what a place to play football.

Intrigued to see how we replace him, and if it will be the first of a couple.

[ZLF 350]

Hope he does well; good price amd profit for a star player that will be missed;  gala are gonna be gutted when they twig he only shines due to kenny.

Edited August 3, 2024 by ZLF

[canarybubbles 2,212]

This was always going to happen, I suppose, but I can't see how it won't be anything but a dampener among the fans on the start of our season. We're losing a player who is not only above Championship level, but one who is a model professional and totally reliable (I think I'm right in saying that he played every minute of our 46 league games last season).

[Paul101 197]

this would make it a Galatasaray club record signing

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,076]

38 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

This was always going to happen, I suppose, but I can't see how it won't be anything but a dampener among the fans on the start of our season. We're losing a player who is not only above Championship level, but one who is a model professional and totally reliable (I think I'm right in saying that he played every minute of our 46 league games last season).

I'd imagine it'll be a dampener amongst the players too, when you take our best player out of the side, with his amount of goal involvements

[Dean Coneys boots 1,550]

And a dampener to prospective signings. We look like a club going backwards not forwards at present in terms of outgoings 

[canarycop 232]

6 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I'd imagine it'll be a dampener amongst the players too, when you take our best player out of the side, with his amount of goal involvements

As one door closes another opens. BK will have been planning for this so don't be surprised to see someone incoming. Plus we have all been banging on for years about bringing the youth through. We have to develop and sell. That's our model and it will be more and more sustainable for us as others fall by the wayside. I for one am looking forward to seeing how the likes of Forsyth Manning etc develop. Yes he will be a miss but this is what we do

[canarybubbles 2,212]

My biggest worry is that we have a manager who states he wants to play fast, technical, possession-based football and we have a squad of players who don't seem suited to that, and we have just sold the one player who looked like he would be supremely suited to it.

Sargent will score goals and work his butt off, but his first touch is erratic to say the least. Rowe and Sainz are extremely gifted, but they are explosive players who tend to be individualistic, not gradual build-up types. These three players suited Wagner's style of hoof it to the diagonals and hope, but they'll give the ball away much too often for what Thorup seems to want. They also need to develop their awareness of what is happening on the pitch, not just what is happening to them individually. Idah, if he stays, looks much too clumsy and unintelligent to play fast possession-based football.

At the back Hanley and Duffy look terrified every time they need to make a short pass to beat the press, so every time they try to do this at speed, a disaster beckons. Stacey is great at bombing up the pitch but once he gets there his crossing is hardly pinpoint. Ditto, of course, Hernandez. McLean has vision and can spot a pass, especially a long ball, but I doubt if he has the patience and the technical ability to play keep-ball for long. Nunez, perhaps, can perform the kind of role Sara would probably have excelled in, but I doubt if it will ever be to the same level.

Our problem is that for two and a half years at least we have been putting sticking plasters on a team that doesn't fit together very well and we've bought a melange of players who fit different styles of football, plus we've sold technically gifted players to replace them with players who are allegedly more streetwise. Frankly, Wagner did well to get a play-off place out of that mess, but his legacy is a problem. Perhaps at least one thing will come out of selling Sara - we might all become more realistic about the future and be willing to treat this season like Farke's first. 

[horsefly 5,307]

46 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I'd imagine it'll be a dampener amongst the players too, when you take our best player out of the side, with his amount of goal involvements

One could have said exactly the same when Maddison left. Look what happened. They're professional footballers, I would expect them to rise to the occasion and see this an opportunity to stake their own claims and excel.

[DraytonBoy 256]

Surprising move for Sara if true, I get the CL bit but the Turkish league is awful and he seems very happy in the UK.

[Mello Yello 2,595]

"BOOOO!".....

That is all.....

[Cowboy 262]

14 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

My biggest worry is that we have a manager who states he wants to play fast, technical, possession-based football and we have a squad of players who don't seem suited to that, and we have just sold the one player who looked like he would be supremely suited to it.

Sargent will score goals and work his butt off, but his first touch is erratic to say the least. Rowe and Sainz are extremely gifted, but they are explosive players who tend to be individualistic, not gradual build-up types. These three players suited Wagner's style of hoof it to the diagonals and hope, but they'll give the ball away much too often for what Thorup seems to want. They also need to develop their awareness of what is happening on the pitch, not just what is happening to them individually. Idah, if he stays, looks much too clumsy and unintelligent to play fast possession-based football.

At the back Hanley and Duffy look terrified every time they need to make a short pass to beat the press, so every time they try to do this at speed, a disaster beckons. Stacey is great at bombing up the pitch but once he gets there his crossing is hardly pinpoint. Ditto, of course, Hernandez. McLean has vision and can spot a pass, especially a long ball, but I doubt if he has the patience and the technical ability to play keep-ball for long. Nunez, perhaps, can perform the kind of role Sara would probably have excelled in, but I doubt if it will ever be to the same level.

Our problem is that for two and a half years at least we have been putting sticking plasters on a team that doesn't fit together very well and we've bought a melange of players who fit different styles of football, plus we've sold technically gifted players to replace them with players who are allegedly more streetwise. Frankly, Wagner did well to get a play-off place out of that mess, but his legacy is a problem. Perhaps at least one thing will come out of selling Sara - we might all become more realistic about the future and be willing to treat this season like Farke's first. 

I have to say that those are my thoughts precisely. I agree with every player characterisation you have made, and the overall large mismatch between squad capabilities and stated plan by Thorup. Something has to change to accommodate reality, presumably the manager's strategy because I don't think £20m can quickly buy a team capable of playing that way (even if a large portion of it is due to be spent on players anyway.)

[All the Germans 1,246]

48 minutes ago, canarycop said:

As one door closes another opens. 

Absolutely this.

Shame to see him go, but as good as he is, we've lost better players and improved (Maddison) and probably worse players and declined. If we can get a team greater than the sum of it's parts, a player that fits the system better, it could be a masterclass. Alternatively, we could buy Mark Fotheringham MkII.

[Olano 111]

https://aussiedlerbote.de/en/missing-money-hannover-considers-lawsuit-against-galatasaray/

If Gala cant pay 3 million euros they owe Hannover, then whay do we belive Gala will pay Norwich 20 mill euros?

 

 

Im sceptical. If we geth the money, then this is good business 

 

Edited August 3, 2024 by Olano

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,076]

1 hour ago, canarycop said:

As one door closes another opens. BK will have been planning for this so don't be surprised to see someone incoming. Plus we have all been banging on for years about bringing the youth through. We have to develop and sell. That's our model and it will be more and more sustainable for us as others fall by the wayside. I for one am looking forward to seeing how the likes of Forsyth Manning etc develop. Yes he will be a miss but this is what we do

I think theres enough evidence now to suggest that this 'model' doesnt work...certaintly not as one to get up to the premier league and stay there...it may now prove to be one that doesnt get you up there in the first place now

[chicken 3,139]

5 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

For me, the biggest risk for Sara is Gala are hard to buy players from and it can be a dead end. 

If the Prem is Sara’s ultimate aim, then going to Turkey isn’t a great route as it isn’t a league that Prem teams often look to shop in due to large prices and low confidence in the level of competition. 

I suspect his agent has been told that there aren’t any Prem teams looking to pay £20m for him this season and thus his options are fairly limited. Another season in the Champions was only going to be a risk of limiting his options, especially if Norwich have a transitional season and his personal numbers suffer as a result. 

Gala will be an instant pay increase and there is a history of Brazilians going to the league. Will be interesting to see where his career goes from here, but unless he is really exceptional out in Turkey he will find it hard to get an upward move in the short term. 
 

 

That's perhaps true for the EPL, but I think less so for other European leagues. There are quite a few players around who've played in Turkey and gone onto elsewhere.

I think the main problem is that it's also the direction a number of players move in towards the end of their careers. Where as the US/Saudi and China was, tend to be prolonging career moves, Turkey seems to be the destination prior to that as careers falter or stall.

[All the Germans 1,246]

4 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I think theres enough evidence now to suggest that this 'model' doesnt work...certaintly not as one to get up to the premier league and stay there...it may now prove to be one that doesnt get you up there in the first place now

The model of selling your better players for high money, reinvesting it in players to develop and then sell them for higher money, incrementally increasing squad ability, doesn't work? Brighton and Brentford called.

[chicken 3,139]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I think theres enough evidence now to suggest that this 'model' doesnt work...certaintly not as one to get up to the premier league and stay there...it may now prove to be one that doesnt get you up there in the first place now

No. There's evidence to suggest this model might be more difficult thsn throwing money at it until it sticks, but not that 'it doesn't work'.

There are increasing numbers of teams up and down the football pyramid that are adapting to a similar model.

In the Premier League you have Brighton and Brentford at least.

Staying in the premier league has always been difficult. Villa spent over £100m and stayed up on a dodgy goal decision. Forrest did similar and scraped over the line too. Fulham did the same but it took two more attempts to get up to stay there.

By comparison, Brentford spent less than us deploying a very similar model that led them to go for similar profiles of player, even the same player in one case.

[chicken 3,139]

1 minute ago, All the Germans said:

The model of selling your better players for high money, reinvesting it in players to develop and then sell them for higher money, incrementally increasing squad ability, doesn't work? Brighton and Brentford called.

That particular aspect isn't new or unique either. Pretty much every side outside of the top 3-4 in most countries does it.

However, before being stats led, it was exactly the model Wigan adopted and were successful with for that purple patch they had. Quite a number of their players went on to top clubs.