Digital Literacy.

[The Real Buh 3,603]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

I don't think I can be arsed to read their replies. Life's too short.

[Iwans Big Toe 353]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

I don't think I can be arsed to read their replies. Life's too short.

You know I have wondered are you actually stupid enough to believe the things you say or are you just trolling?

Comments like this make me think it's probably the latter, you don't want a debate, you are just baiting to get a rise.

 

 

[Aggy 929]

3 hours ago, yellow hammer said:

Ah Barbe, you're definitely old skool, and all the better for it. Unfortunately, the Marxist Critical Theory folks have bulldozed their way through the educational system from day care to PHD and beyond. such things as evidence, facts and truth no longer have a place within the educational system. Today our kids learn about oppressor and oppressed. They learn about the Patriarchy and systemic racism, and God help them if they are indigenous British folk.

Now Herman is old skool too, because while the reeducation camps that he wants for Oldies are not there (the cost), the education camps for right on-thinkers have been replacing Old Skool for the past forty years

Out of interest, do you work in schools, or do you have kids currently there?

[yellow hammer 89]

30 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Out of interest, do you work in schools, or do you have kids currently there?

You have to do your own research 

[Herman 10,765]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/02/how-tiktok-bots-and-ai-have-powered-a-resurgence-in-uk-far-right-violence

[The Real Buh 3,603]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/02/how-tiktok-bots-and-ai-have-powered-a-resurgence-in-uk-far-right-violence

There’s a lot of b@&ocks info on the internet

Hermans solution: re-education camps

which, I suspect is your solution to most things, you absolute cringe poundland commie

[Herman 10,765]

[The Real Buh 3,603]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

It only works when I do it, Grandad Stalin. Maybe if you actually watched South Park maybe you’d be a more balanced and less horrendous person.

[Paul101 171]

On 31/07/2024 at 10:45, Yellow Fever said:

I'm not wanting to get into the left /right argument but actually I think being more thoughtful and circumspect about things, trying to look at both sides, its merits or otherwise, pros and cons and actual workable solutions is what separates people generally regarded as centrists (left/right) from those that just go with their or emotions or gut feelings - 'populists - be that far left or right'.

It so obvious with the sad events in Southport and yes the hideous response of the 'far' right.

if we are talking our extreme left and right they are both pretty vile neither side accepts anyones arguments or is willing to bend

both want to impose there will on everyone else everytime I see the comunist flag turning up I can see the blood pouring of it

until recently didnt pay to much attention to Tommy and his crew of nutjobs but being in Norfolk we tend not to be extreme racists more resentment to people from london buying up second homes tbh

[The Real Buh 3,603]

8 minutes ago, Paul101 said:

if we are talking our extreme left and right they are both pretty vile neither side accepts anyones arguments or is willing to bend

both want to impose there will on everyone else everytime I see the comunist flag turning up I can see the blood pouring of it

until recently didnt pay to much attention to Tommy and his crew of nutjobs but being in Norfolk we tend not to be extreme racists more resentment to people from london buying up second homes tbh

Have you heard about my plan to put the political fringes in the O2 and have them eat one another? It’s my version of a, admittedly quite short, re-education camp.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,279]

Disinformation is as old as the hills. Zinoviev, for example 

The internet has just made it worse. As Herman has stated, people have their views and will find "information" that supports them.

If I have read correctly (!), citizenship is now taught in schools. Maybe some analysis of disinformation could be incorporated into that? Maybe it already is?

But would it help?

[PurpleCanary 6,116]

On 31/07/2024 at 13:26, Creative Midfielder said:

This is key and should have happened many years ago - it has always been a complete mystery to me why when we have long established and widely regarded as appropriate legal protections against the publication of grossly offensive or libellous etc etc material which applies to publishers of the written word, the film industry, even more strongly (arguably) television broadcasters why on earth have allowed big tech to perpetrate the utter fiction that they are not the publishers of the material that appears on their platforms and that they therefore are not legally responsible for it.

They quite clearly are the publishers of the material and should be held legally accountable for it and if there is any doubt as to whether our current laws can achieve that or not then the current laws should be tightened to make it explicit that they are responsible for all content on their platforms.

That hopefully would force them to dramatically clean up their acts, but if that meant companies such as Twitter or FB decided instead not to operate in the UK any longer, then that would really be the icing on the cake.

 

The owners of the EDP are the publishers of everything on this site and legally responsible. Which is why sometimes threads get pulled. Not always because of the threat of libel, to be fair. Mere personal unpleasantness can also be a reason.

[Aggy 929]

9 hours ago, yellow hammer said:

You have to do your own research 

Is this supposed to mean the reason you ‘know’ what is currently taught in schools is because you’ve googled it?

[Creative Midfielder 2,154]

13 hours ago, yellow hammer said:

How do you arrive at that conclusion? If it is true then your case stands, otherwise I think it falls

Well in IT terms Twitter/FB etc allows its users to create content which their platforms publish - 'publish' in this case being both the IT term and the common English term for what happens.

No different at all to an independent TV company making a program which the BBC/ITV broadcasts - if that program has dodgy/illegal content it will be the BBC/ITV that will be (primarily) in the firing line.

Same deal for journalists & newspapers/magazines, authors & book publishers - sometimes individuals can also be in legal jeopardy where they can be identified (which on-line mostly they can't) but the most legally exposed organisation is always those who publish or broadcast the content - unless they are a very large and wealthy tech company which seemingly puts them above the law.

[Paul101 171]

3 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Have you heard about my plan to put the political fringes in the O2 and have them eat one another? It’s my version of a, admittedly quite short, re-education camp.

well they are both fans of re-education camps so would be perfect 

Edited August 2 by Paul101

[sonyc 5,975]

3 hours ago, Paul101 said:

until recently didnt pay to much attention to Tommy and his crew of nutjobs but being in Norfolk we tend not to be extreme racists more resentment to people from london buying up second homes tbh

Agree with this Paul. I think those London types are often an entitled bunch. In my experience. Loud, monied and not very true to Norfolk. It's the same on Cornwall and in South West Wales. But that's capitalism I suppose. It's not the second homes issue as much as the attitude that causes the resentment.

[Paul101 171]

11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Agree with this Paul. I think those London types are often an entitled bunch. In my experience. Loud, monied and not very true to Norfolk. It's the same on Cornwall and in South West Wales. But that's capitalism I suppose. It's not the second homes issue as much as the attitude that causes the resentment.

In fairness growing up my friend and his older brother where two out of three black people living in Dereham who I had met a couple more I met over the next few years  , a few Indians and chinese from the take aways but that was pretty much it and people just treated them the same as anyone else 

My friend was from Iran his family fled  in the 70's and one other was Romanian then Edith in my class was from Ireland and that was considered exotic 

and this was in 1989 when I left school 

Edited August 2 by Paul101

[The Real Buh 3,603]

1 hour ago, Paul101 said:

well they are both fans of re-education camps so would be perfect 

Communism and fascism always ends in camps and the population starving but there’s plenty that obviously haven’t read a single book on it and love to flirt with the idea of either. Plenty on here.

[Paul101 171]

14 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Communism and fascism always ends in camps and the population starving but there’s plenty that obviously haven’t read a single book on it and love to flirt with the idea of either. Plenty on here.

I love the Lenin apologists who try to blame everything on Stalin 

Over 8 million died under lenin due to domestic repression  its called the red terror for a reason 

[The Real Buh 3,603]

10 minutes ago, Paul101 said:

I love the Lenin apologists who try to blame everything on Stalin 

Over 8 million died under lenin due to domestic repression  its called the red terror for a reason 

They go all 1984

“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia”

Apologists for the millions that have died under radical left or right wing policies is the first sign something’s up.

[king canary 8,267]

I'm really not sure why so many see the idea of digital literacy and think 're-education.'

It is much more a case of teaching people how to think critically, parse information and understand sources, especially when a news story seems to chime perfectly with your priors.

It isn't a left/right thing. Not long ago we had quite a few left wingers uncritically getting on board with the 'Reform candidates don't actually exist' story which someone with a bit of decent media literacy would have been very sceptical about from the off. 

[PurpleCanary 6,116]

Orwell's 1984 is a good book. But to understand the Soviet Union and Stalinism a better guide is the rather more complex Darkness at Noon, by Arthur Koestler, who knew at first hand, and very nearly at the cost of his life,  what he was writing about.

But although the novel is fundamentally anti-tyranny, Koestler also made the case so persuasively for Stalinism that some in western Europe who had left the Communist party because of the show trials and the repression actually rejoined.

[The Real Buh 3,603]

4 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Orwell's 1984 is a good book. But to understand the Soviet Union and Stalinism a better guide is the rather more complex Darkness at Noon, by Arthur Koestler, who knew at first hand, and very nearly at the cost of his life,  what he was writing about.

But although the novel is fundamentally anti-tyranny, Koestler also made the case so persuasively for Stalinism that some in western Europe who had left the Communist party because of the show trials and the repression actually rejoined.

Communism should be resisted with the same fervor as naziism that’s the only fact you need.

[Yellow Fever 4,236]

42 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm really not sure why so many see the idea of digital literacy and think 're-education.'

It is much more a case of teaching people how to think critically, parse information and understand sources, especially when a news story seems to chime perfectly with your priors.

It isn't a left/right thing. Not long ago we had quite a few left wingers uncritically getting on board with the 'Reform candidates don't actually exist' story which someone with a bit of decent media literacy would have been very sceptical about from the off. 

I really fear for our 'democracy' unless we can either control SM to stick to facts or educate people to be more discerning. I rather suspect both are difficult and hence we are ever more likely to follow irrational 'populist' self damaging policies incredibly easily influenced by external malign factors. Last few days it was 'Russian bots' apparently winding up the ignorant but only look across the pond and we can see how easily democracy itself could be so entirely lost. 

I always have this analogy of the Pied Piper of Hamelin playing a nice tune to drown the rats following blindly on behind.

Putin , Xi and all authoritarian states must think Christmas has come early as the 'West' fails. 

Edited August 2 by Yellow Fever

[sonyc 5,975]

22 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I really fear for our 'democracy' unless we can either control SM to stick to facts or educate people to be more discerning. I rather suspect both are difficult and hence we are ever more likely to follow irrational 'populist' self damaging policies incredibly easily influenced by external malign factors. Last few days it was 'Russian bots' apparently winding up the ignorant but only look across the pond and we can see how easily democracy itself could be so entirely lost. 

I always have this analogy of the Pied Piper of Hamelin playing a nice tune to drown the rats following blindly on behind.

Putin , Xi and all authoritarian states must think Christmas has come early as the 'West' fails. 

Social media invites immediate reaction. That's the issue for me. There's a jumping on to issues and then getting carried away. The language intensifies and any mood is amplified (outrage etc). The plain truth is very often far more boring. 

As for right and left - I think that's a complete red herring. Many comments made state that everyone is guilty (and that we are all susceptible) but even on this subject there are some who wish to make it something else. That's reactionary in itself, immediately jumping in, sometimes within only a few minutes. 

If we have a conversation (face to face) then we have lots of clues about what the other person means or their attitude. That's not possible on social media. And people on this forum play the poster very often and not the post. It is possible to agree with a point made by someone with whom one might tend to think shares very little overall with our own take on life.

People like to put others in boxes, neatly labelled. I guess it makes life easier.

I've now witnessed first hand (not here on a football forum) one or two people I've come across come up with very strange conspiracies, that it feels somehow as if we may have gone back to the Middle Ages! ("She's a witch") and so on. Talking of conspiracy theories I have wondered a few times whether some posters are bots! Or maybe they're influencers of one particular political persuasion. Yet, it's not a rational position to take so I discount it. 

Reading the stuff that people post say on FB and X even about Norwich City is the same. People now have the platform to say any old thing. 

 

[Barbe bleu 976]

@Herman I said at the start that framing this as a left/right issue would not end well.   You make a good point but by using it to attack your enemies you just attract a bigger and better counter attack

It's this sort of thing that gets tommeh and nigel brought out of retirement and given a platform.  I'm not blaming you - we are posting on the back end of nowhere - but i thought it a good example of the wider point I was making a year ago

 

[Herman 10,765]

Well as has been said it isn't a left-right issue as you you only have to read some of the Corbynistas, for example, online to see that they can easily fall for utter nonsense or make mistakes. Even I have made mistakes in the past believe it or not. But unfortunately for you the right are far more prone to it as this forum will attest.

Also my use of the word compulsory was meant in the similar way that maths and english are compulsory in schools. Maybe compulsory basic literacy wouldn't go amiss too.

And the thread on the whole, bar two clear and obvious trolls, has come up with some very good replies.

[Barbe bleu 976]

5 hours ago, Herman said:

Well as has been said it isn't a left-right issue as you you only have to read some of the Corbynistas, for example, online to see that they can easily fall for utter nonsense or make mistakes. Even I have made mistakes in the past believe it or not. But unfortunately for you the right are far more prone to it as this forum will attest.

Also my use of the word compulsory was meant in the similar way that maths and english are compulsory in schools. Maybe compulsory basic literacy wouldn't go amiss too.

And the thread on the whole, bar two clear and obvious trolls, has come up with some very good replies.

I absolutely agree with you on the substantive point- if schools do t teach kids how to deal with bias, evidence and prejudice (online  or otherwise) they absolutely should.

Good to see that we are agreeing that all sides are susceptible to being idiots.

The "unfortunately for you" bit is a low blow.   When you have your back to the wall, as you now do, don't lash out at someone coming to help 

Edited August 2 by Barbe bleu

[The Real Buh 3,603]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

Well as has been said it isn't a left-right issue as you you only have to read some of the Corbynistas, for example, online to see that they can easily fall for utter nonsense or make mistakes. Even I have made mistakes in the past believe it or not. But unfortunately for you the right are far more prone to it as this forum will attest.

Also my use of the word compulsory was meant in the similar way that maths and english are compulsory in schools. Maybe compulsory basic literacy wouldn't go amiss too.

And the thread on the whole, bar two clear and obvious trolls, has come up with some very good replies.

If your going to row back that hard you should get yourself to Paris and see if you can win a medal

nobody believes you, commie. Camps are your natural solution to all problems.

[PurpleCanary 6,116]

5 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Orwell's 1984 is a good book. But to understand the Soviet Union and Stalinism a better guide is the rather more complex Darkness at Noon, by Arthur Koestler, who knew at first hand, and very nearly at the cost of his life,  what he was writing about.

But although the novel is fundamentally anti-tyranny, Koestler also made the case so persuasively for Stalinism that some in western Europe who had left the Communist party because of the show trials and the repression actually rejoined.

I have to withdraw my recommendation of this book. Apparently it commits the sin of not being stupidly simplistic.