Stabbings at a daycare in Southport

[Naturalcynic 817]

5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Funny how I condemned ALL violence by any group.

As, I think, have all of us.

[Herman 10,958]

This woman got nicked in Sunderland. These are the reviews for her business.😆

https://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/leannes-removals-sunderland

[horsefly 5,163]

Just now, Naturalcynic said:

As, I think, have all of us.

Except some haven't. And some like you have been acting as apologists for violent law-breaking far-right racist thugs.

[Well b back 3,571]

11 minutes ago, yellow hammer said:

 

Ah a recruitment video making out they started it. 

 

[Naturalcynic 817]

15 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Except some haven't. And some like you have been acting as apologists for violent law-breaking far-right racist thugs.

Complete rubbish.

[horsefly 5,163]

On 29/07/2024 at 15:35, Naturalcynic said:

Hope the Police haven’t given him a kicking in the privacy of his cell.  I’m sure no-one would want that.

 

On 29/07/2024 at 18:14, Naturalcynic said:

Although many on social media seem to think they know who it was.  Police need to make it clear.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 00:45, yellow hammer said:

when the police fail to give a name or a full description of the suspect then one can fairly confidently presume the profile of this person. Outside the UK, the internet is providing the name of Ali Al-Shakati. Whether that is correct remains to be seen, but the police cannot hide the name forever.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 21:38, Naturalcynic said:

That’s an easy thing for them to say but is the EDL actually an organised thing these days?  Or is this just concerned local people who are lashing out because they don’t know what else to do?  

 

On 30/07/2024 at 21:52, Naturalcynic said:

But are you surprised?  Given what happened in Southport and the lack of information from the authorities, do you really expect the locals to cower behind their curtains and do nothing?  They’re angry, and justifiably so.  People lazily labelling them as far-right seriously misjudge the mood of many.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 21:55, Naturalcynic said:

Frankly the Police could nip this in the bud by stating that the perpetrator was, for example, a church-going Christian or of no known religious views.  But their continued silence simply fuels what’s happening.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 22:00, Naturalcynic said:

No idea, I’m not there.  But their outrage is understandable, as is their hostility to the Police who they probably feel aren’t giving them the full story.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 22:24, Naturalcynic said:

As I’ve already said, the Police could nip this in the bud by unequivocally stating that the perpetrator had no religious affiliation, or at least wasn’t Muslim, but their failure to do so just adds fuel to the fire.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 22:27, Naturalcynic said:

I certainly haven’t expressed support for them.  Don’t put words into my mouth. What I have said is that their anger is understandable.

 

On 30/07/2024 at 22:35, Naturalcynic said:

I agree.  But given what happened it’s hardly surprising if local passions run high.  Marxist idiots might automatically label them as racists but I suspect the majority are very concerned locals who just don’t know what else to do.

 

On 31/07/2024 at 06:13, Naturalcynic said:

You’re correct about religion in Rwanda.  But what you overlook, and what the Police haven’t clarified, is that the perpetrator, a young black boy living near Southport and quite possibly mixing with others of colour living nearby and with whom he went to school, could very easily have been persuaded to become a Muslim.  It may well not be the case at all, but the failure of the Police to rule that out is a major cause of last night’s violence.

 

On 31/07/2024 at 06:18, Naturalcynic said:

Yes, it’s sad that given the global history of outrages cased by Islamists over the last 30 years that many people’s natural reaction is to assume it might be related to Islam, particularly when so far the Police have completely failed to state anything about the perpetrator’s religious affiliations.

 

On 31/07/2024 at 07:28, Naturalcynic said:

At risk of repeating myself, the boy had apparently lived here all his life, moving to Southport aged seven.  As is often the case, his friendship groups were likely to have been other children of colour, many of whom could well have been of south-asian heritage and therefore probably Muslim.  It’s entirely possible that as a result he embraced Islam and became radicalised as a result of malign influences.  This is what the Police need to rule out.

That's from the first 5 pages of this thread, where you continued to spread disinformation and provide excuses for what were clearly the actions of racist thugs and not local people.

Edited August 3 by horsefly

[Fen Canary 1,383]

5 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

As you say, its a bit latr for that.  He's opened himself up to criticisms of hypocrisy and one-sidedness that have added fuel to the fire but does he go all in or pull back?

I’ve no idea how he digs himself out of the hole he’s made for himself to be honest. If he backs off then he’s given in to violence, if he clamps down hard he reinforces the view of two tier policing and gives the rioters support they wouldn’t otherwise have had.

[ricardo 7,844]

Who would have guessed that governing would be harder than carping from the sidelines?

A statement on Mumsnet should clear things up.

[Barbe bleu 990]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Name me one prime minister who would do anything other than condemn in the strongest terms the far-right racist thuggery that has seen people's communities trashed, buildings and police vehicles set on fire, and officers violently assaulted. No one should be providing any kind of apologist defence of such disgraceful law-breaking, least of all the prime minister of this country. 

He made a rod for his back when the took the knee a while back.  Having done that he was always on dodgy ground.

Nothing  wrong with denouncing violence but he didn't need to say it was 'right wing', that can be left unsaid but understood.   By doing that he instantly opens himself up the the "two tier kier"  accusation.  And then to talk about facial recognition and some sort of police special action squad- what was he thinking?!

Looks like they have learnt that lesson though.   It's the home secretary now making the speeches and the line has changed from 'right wing' to ' criminal disorder and thuggery' .   Should have done this from the off.  

 

 

Edited August 3 by Barbe bleu

[Fen Canary 1,383]

Just now, ricardo said:

Who would have guessed that governing would be harder than carping from the sidelines?

A statement on Mumsnet should clear things up.

That would be Mumsnet that’s full of evil TERFs? He won’t post on there now he’s resolved the culture wars.

It turns out all we had to do was ignore the problems and they magically go away. It worked for immigration anyway 

[Well b back 3,571]

7 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I’ve no idea how he digs himself out of the hole he’s made for himself to be honest. If he backs off then he’s given in to violence, if he clamps down hard he reinforces the view of two tier policing and gives the rioters support they wouldn’t otherwise have had.

I would say it’s double standards if they are not sent to prison using just stop oil protestors as the bar.

 

[Aggy 931]

29 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Complete rubbish.

I thought you said it was understandable why they were rioting? You seem a bit confused.

Edited August 3 by Aggy

[Naturalcynic 817]

I see you’ve also included a comment from someone else in your little list which clearly I did not make.  I repeat, given the recent atrocity and previous high profile events, it’s hardly surprising that many people feel outraged, but at no stage have I supported or excused violence and rioting.

Edited August 12 by Naturalcynic

[Fen Canary 1,383]

Just now, Well b back said:

I would say it’s double standards if they are not sent to prison using just stop oil protestors as the bar.

 

Two different crimes, as such are completely unrelated as you know.

The accusations of double standards arise from the relative silence around the riots at Harehills and Tower Hamlets compared to the harsh crackdown promised on the riots at Southport and Sunderland.

People have an inherent belief in fairness. Even when it’s something they disagree with, they’ll largely accept it if everybody is expected to abide by the same rules and dealt with evenly when those rules are broken. I’ve had hundreds of b0ll0ckings in my working life and while it was annoying I could accept them when everybody I worked with got the same when they messed up. However if I got moaned at for a mistake while it was laughed off when somebody else did the same then massive arguments and problems always followed.

Starmer has made a rod for his back now (arguably started when he took the knee and picked sides in that particular ideological battle). If he doesn’t come down hard next time there’s disorder in a largely ethnic minority area (upsetting those of the left) then he leaves himself open to rank hypocrisy, which is possibly the worst thing for an MP to be accused of. Let’s be honest nobody cared the Boris had a sneaky bit of birthday cake, what upset them was that he hypocritically broke the rules he’d imposed on everybody else 

[Pyro Pete 2,269]

Great headline from The Metro:

 

[Well b back 3,571]

4 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Two different crimes, as such are completely unrelated as you know.

The accusations of double standards arise from the relative silence around the riots at Harehills and Tower Hamlets compared to the harsh crackdown promised on the riots at Southport and Sunderland.

People have an inherent belief in fairness. Even when it’s something they disagree with, they’ll largely accept it if everybody is expected to abide by the same rules and dealt with evenly when those rules are broken. I’ve had hundreds of b0ll0ckings in my working life and while it was annoying I could accept them when everybody I worked with got the same when they messed up. However if I got moaned at for a mistake while it was laughed off when somebody else did the same then massive arguments and problems always followed.

Starmer has made a rod for his back now (arguably started when he took the knee and picked sides in that particular ideological battle). If he doesn’t come down hard next time there’s disorder in a largely ethnic minority area (upsetting those of the left) then he leaves himself open to rank hypocrisy, which is possibly the worst thing for an MP to be accused of. Let’s be honest nobody cared the Boris had a sneaky bit of birthday cake, what upset them was that he hypocritically broke the rules he’d imposed on everybody else 

You sound like Farage

[Aggy 931]

9 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

I see you’ve also included a comment from someone else in your little list which clearly I did not make.  I repeat, given the recent atrocity and previous high profile events, it’s hardly surprising that many people feel outraged, but civil unrest could have been nipped in the bud if the Police/court/Government had released relevant details earlier.  At no stage have I supported or excused violence and rioting.

Now, why is it that whenever I login to this site you’re always here?  Is this what a once respected lecturer has become?  A sad old man who sits at home in front of his computer screen all day, venting bile at everyone who doesn’t share his world view?

So to be clear, you’re not trying to make excuses for those rioting but the main points you want to make are (1) it’s understandable why they would be and (2) the police are more to blame than the rioters.

 

[TheGunnShow 7,094]

5 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Great headline from The Metro:

 

I'm guessing that was the rump of the group.

[Well b back 3,571]

6 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Great headline from The Metro:

 

They are all the same, brave when they know a police officer can’t hit them back ( even though they support stamping on people ) and crying in court. 
Afraid we have seen nothing yet as people start to ‘ defend ‘ the streets.

[Herman 10,958]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

You sound like Farage

He does sadly. Mealy mouthed apologism.

[Aggy 931]

14 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

 

Starmer has made a rod for his back now (arguably started when he took the knee and picked sides in that particular ideological battle). 

So you’ve spent weeks telling anyone talking about brexit to stop whining. And now you’re whining because the current prime minister’s ideologies are different to yours. Get over it and vote  against him next time.

Edited August 3 by Aggy

[Well b back 3,571]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

He does sadly. Mealy mouthed apologism.

I fear Farage’s motives are far more than just getting a few people hating each other. 

[Pyro Pete 2,269]

[Well b back 3,571]

3 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Is that Jools ?

[Fen Canary 1,383]

1 minute ago, Aggy said:

So you’ve spent weeks telling anyone talking about brexit to stop whining. And now you’re whining because the current prime minister’s ideologies are different to yours. Get over it and vote  against him next time.

I’m not whining about his ideology, mostly because I don’t believe he has an ideology. He dumped every promise he made in order win the Labour leadership and looks like doing the same now he’s PM.

What I’m saying will cause him grief is if this early in his tenure he gets a reputation for two tier policing, handling one group of rioters with kid gloves while using the full force of the law to clamp down hard on another. 

[Aggy 931]

1 minute ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m not whining about his ideology, mostly because I don’t believe he has an ideology. He dumped every promise he made in order win the Labour leadership and looks like doing the same now he’s PM.

What I’m saying will cause him grief is if this early in his tenure he gets a reputation for two tier policing, handling one group of rioters with kid gloves while using the full force of the law to clamp down hard on another. 

So you can see the difference between just stop oil and these riots and think those two things might need a different approach, but you don’t think there’s any difference between a one off riot in one location that lasted one night and a string of organised riots nationwide across a number of nights already and which are being centrally planned in advance?

[Well b back 3,571]

11 minutes ago, Aggy said:

So you can see the difference between just stop oil and these riots and think those two things might need a different approach, but you don’t think there’s any difference between a one off riot in one location that lasted one night and a string of organised riots nationwide across a number of nights already and which are being centrally planned in advance?

Selecting their areas as well to areas that had big UKIP / Reform votes

[Fen Canary 1,383]

11 minutes ago, Aggy said:

So you can see the difference between just stop oil and these riots and think those two things might need a different approach, but you don’t think there’s any difference between a one off riot in one location that lasted one night and a string of organised riots nationwide across a number of nights already and which are being centrally planned in advance?

The ongoing disorder does have to be stopped I’ll agree, however I was referring to Starmers reaction to the initial one which entrenched the idea of two tier policing and some groups enjoying a more protected status than others.

Just Stop Oil is completely unrelated so I’m not sure why you keep going back to it

[sonyc 6,076]

Brighton Pavillion picture being used by the protesters against more mosques

https://x.com/DrRobgalloway/status/1819821367895654745?t=A8qWrTz00qabC2ZsDteEaQ&s=19

 

Edited August 3 by sonyc

[cambridgeshire canary 7,584]

1 hour ago, yellow hammer said:

 

In the words of Cartman

"But it turns out even the authorities are minorities.."