Stabbings at a daycare in Southport

[Comfortably numb 18]

3 hours ago, Daz Sparks said:

I have mixed your comments with another's. 

I do apologise. 

Apology accepted 👍

[Comfortably numb 18]

I agree with every single thing this man says and stands for. Just a shame he’s not PM!
 

 

[The Real Buh 3,603]

The tories were useless, a really terrible party that folded like a cheap suit. However, there was one plus to this uselessness. I never worried about Tory totalitarianism, they were literally too useless to organize that stuff.

But when I saw our Kier on that podium yesterday and I look into the jilted crossed eyes of Angela Rayner I see a party that feels it’s been out of power for too long and needs “for the good of everyone” to be in total power.

I hear the things he’s saying and what I’m thinking is this guy is going to need to be toppled, maybe by his own people, to be eventually removed from power.

[cornish sam 1,012]

18 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Surely that would work both ways though? surely plenty of poor White British in existence to viciously attack minorities.

Your second point is certainly valid, & may well be the case in this instance. The trouble is there have been too many attacks (like the Manchester Arena bombing ) where the motive is the wish to destroy white British people. 

If this is not so in this instance then it needs clearing up as soon as possible. Delay will only exacerbate the situation.

You've misunderstood statistics slightly there, why would the poor White British attack the minorities unless they were racially motivated? Remove racial/religious motivation and they would be more likely to attack white british as they are by far the majority in this country... Also, things like the Manchester Arena bombing are a one off perpetrated by a handful of radicals, not aimed at a wish to destroy white british people, but rather at trying to attack western civilisation as a whole. If you are going to include that then what about the Omagh or Birmingham bombings? There were far more incidents during "the troubles" than there have been in the UK by Islamist radicals...

For reference the stats do back this up (2022 was the most recent I could see):

"In the year ending March 2022, there were 671 homicides in the Home Office Homicide Index^{[footnote 21]}, where the ethnicity of the victim was recorded^{[footnote 22]}. Almost three quarters (74%) of these victims were from the white ethnic group, with 14% involving black victims and 13% from the other ethnic group^{[footnote 23]}. The long-term trend has shown a decrease in the percentage of white victims (from 82% in 2012/13), although this has fluctuated over the last 10 years, with corresponding increases in proportions of black (from 10%) and other ethnic group (from 8%) victims."

However, in this country most homicides are within the same ethnic group:

"Between 2019/20 and 2021/22, 68% of principal suspects convicted of homicide were from the white ethnic group, followed by 14% from the black ethnic group and 15% from the other ethnic group. For each ethnic group, victims were most often associated with a principal suspect of the same ethnic group (white: 83%, black: 58%, other: 52%)."

 

This source is actually really interesting and shows quite how misrepresented some things are in the press and also how much of a correlation there is between crime rates and socio-economic factors/education https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022/statistics-on-ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2022-html

[Foxy2600 341]

10 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

I hear the things he’s saying and what I’m thinking is this guy is going to need to be toppled, maybe by his own people, to be eventually removed from power.

“Your Kier”

Labour, the party that hates white working class and pensioners…

[king canary 8,267]

22 minutes ago, Comfortably numb said:

I agree with every single thing this man says and stands for. Just a shame he’s not PM!
 

 

It's **** though isn't it?

Halfway through he claims the stabbings in Southport were the consequence of illegal migration, which...they aren't.

[Comfortably numb 18]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

It's **** though isn't it?

Halfway through he claims the stabbings in Southport were the consequence of illegal migration, which...they aren't.

That’s not what he said. He’s attributing some of the genuine fears of those who demonstrated in Southport to illegal migration. I guess you will only see and hear what you want to see and hear.

It’s incumbent for any sitting government to protect its citizens. Stopping criminal males entering a country should be at the top of the agenda.

[king canary 8,267]

1 minute ago, Comfortably numb said:

That’s not what he said. He’s attributing some of the genuine fears of those who demonstrated in Southport to illegal migration. I guess you will only see and hear what you want to see and hear.

It’s incumbent for any sitting government to protect its citizens. Stopping criminal males entering a country should be at the top of the agenda.

No I saw and heard what he said.

I watched it ,wanted to give it a chance but it was largely unoriginal, vacuous stuff about 'genuine concerns.' Always the case when anyone tries to claim they are speaking for the 'ordinary man' as if there is homogenous group all with the same thoughts and concerns that can be boiled down into a 6 minute youtube video.

[Creative Midfielder 2,154]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

Where is Farage after his comments ? Rightly we see sentences for going over the top with protests, yet those encouraging hate and mob rule can happily carry on.

Quite, the contrast between the treatment of peaceful protesters and violent rioters seems quite striking and utterly perverse.

Edited August 2 by Creative Midfielder

[Badger 2,732]

42 minutes ago, Comfortably numb said:

I agree with every single thing this man says and stands for. Just a shame he’s not PM!
 

 

I think he is generally talking complete boll*cks. We all support the police - no doubt throwing bricks at them is a sign of appreciation?

Why do you think he refers to the truly tragic stabbings to and then links them to illegal migration?

You thought it was so wonderful, perhaps you could explain?

 

[Foxy2600 341]

Khan’s Extreme Far Right EDL

[Yellow Fever 4,235]

3 hours ago, Comfortably numb said:

That’s not what he said. He’s attributing some of the genuine fears of those who demonstrated in Southport to illegal migration. I guess you will only see and hear what you want to see and hear.

It’s incumbent for any sitting government to protect its citizens. Stopping criminal males entering a country should be at the top of the agenda.

Banging up rioters (male or female, any politics) and incitement is too!

[Naturalcynic 817]

On 02/08/2024 at 18:57, Yellow Fever said:

Banging up rioters (male or female, any politics) and incitement is too!

Yes, of course it is, and I doubt anyone on here condones rioting, violence etc.  

Edited August 12 by Naturalcynic

[sonyc 5,971]

4 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

break down in societal values, law and order,

Are not those Southport rioters' actions a break down of most peoples values, a break down in law and order? 

Is this how "understandable concerns" should play out? Especially in a town where that nutter killed little children and where people are grieving.

I'm not picking a fight but are there no other outlets for these people who are very scared of what is happening? Rather than trash a place and upset local people what might these people do that could be more constructive do you think? You take your 'fight' here on the Pinkun to anyone who doesn't agree with your view and you do that with your arguments and your choice of words. But a person has lost it when they act like that Spencer bloke. What has gone so wrong in his life might we think to bait the police in the way he did? Is it sport? Alcohol? Where does the inside anger come from? Is it his education? His family circumstances? Should we then believe it's an abstract thing like immigration that has made him so angry to leave home and join the riot? Does it... or should it ...take a terrible tragedy to mobilise him? Why is this event a signifier?

I ask all this because you're more likely to know the answers than I am. I read countless posts about it but I don't understand your anger or is it frustration? Or something else? Are you actually afraid? Is it the unknown person that is threatening? There are plenty of people about who we should be worried about amongst us are there not? Abusers, criminals, scammers and so on. 

I'm interested to know and I just think you'll be more on the topic than I am. So it's an honest question. I have to put all these kinds of qualification statements in because people so often just attack if you don't. Or accuse you of being a 'leftie'. My views probably spread over a very wide ground depending on the issue. I also do not believe that uncontrolled immigration is very good. Hopefully that is enough qualifications to illicit a good reply without attack or insult.

[Naturalcynic 817]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Are not those Southport rioters' actions a break down of most peoples values, a break down in law and order? 

Yes, of course they are.  As I said at the outset, I doubt anyone on here condones violence and rioting.

Is this how "understandable concerns" should play out? Especially in a town where that nutter killed little children and where people are grieving.

Violence and rioting? Of course not. I’m surprised you feel the need to ask the question.

I'm not picking a fight but are there no other outlets for these people who are very scared of what is happening? Rather than trash a place and upset local people what might these people do that could be more constructive do you think? You take your 'fight' here on the Pinkun to anyone who doesn't agree with your view and you do that with your arguments and your choice of words. But a person has lost it when they act like that Spencer bloke. What has gone so wrong in his life might we think to bait the police in the way he did? Is it sport? Alcohol? Where does the inside anger come from? Is it his education? His family circumstances? Should we then believe it's an abstract thing like immigration that has made him so angry to leave home and join the riot? Does it... or should it ...take a terrible tragedy to mobilise him? Why is this event a signifier?

I ask all this because you're more likely to know the answers than I am. I read countless posts about it but I don't understand your anger or is it frustration? Or something else? Are you actually afraid? Is it the unknown person that is threatening? There are plenty of people about who we should be worried about amongst us are there not? Abusers, criminals, scammers and so on. 

I'm interested to know and I just think you'll be more on the topic than I am. So it's an honest question. I have to put all these kinds of qualification statements in because people so often just attack if you don't. Or accuse you of being a 'leftie'. My views probably spread over a very wide ground depending on the issue. I also do not believe that uncontrolled immigration is very good. Hopefully that is enough qualifications to illicit a good reply without attack or insult.

As for all of the above, I suspect you know very well indeed exactly why many have grave misgivings about the way society has changed so rapidly over the last twenty or so years due to unprecedented levels of inward migration, the apparent unwillingness of huge numbers of those migrants to embrace being British and their clear rejection of our values and norms. 

 

[Fen Canary 1,289]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Are not those Southport rioters' actions a break down of most peoples values, a break down in law and order? 

Is this how "understandable concerns" should play out? Especially in a town where that nutter killed little children and where people are grieving.

I'm not picking a fight but are there no other outlets for these people who are very scared of what is happening? Rather than trash a place and upset local people what might these people do that could be more constructive do you think? You take your 'fight' here on the Pinkun to anyone who doesn't agree with your view and you do that with your arguments and your choice of words. But a person has lost it when they act like that Spencer bloke. What has gone so wrong in his life might we think to bait the police in the way he did? Is it sport? Alcohol? Where does the inside anger come from? Is it his education? His family circumstances? Should we then believe it's an abstract thing like immigration that has made him so angry to leave home and join the riot? Does it... or should it ...take a terrible tragedy to mobilise him? Why is this event a signifier?

I ask all this because you're more likely to know the answers than I am. I read countless posts about it but I don't understand your anger or is it frustration? Or something else? Are you actually afraid? Is it the unknown person that is threatening? There are plenty of people about who we should be worried about amongst us are there not? Abusers, criminals, scammers and so on. 

I'm interested to know and I just think you'll be more on the topic than I am. So it's an honest question. I have to put all these kinds of qualification statements in because people so often just attack if you don't. Or accuse you of being a 'leftie'. My views probably spread over a very wide ground depending on the issue. I also do not believe that uncontrolled immigration is very good. Hopefully that is enough qualifications to illicit a good reply without attack or insult.

I think you’re going to see more of this going forward though, as Britain is becoming more sectarian with various religious and ethnic groupings.

It’s fairly common around the world, especially in countries that have different ethnic or religious blocs for the victims “group” to respond angrily to tragic events, especially when committed by an outsider. It was less of an issue previously in mainland Britain when it was more homogeneous as both attacker and victim were nearly always of the same grouping so the anger tended to be directed at the individual themselves rather than a perceived “other”

The seemingly different policing methods also doesn’t help matters. The seemingly hands off approach to the BLM vandalis, Gaza protests and the Harehills riots compared to the (correct) heavy handed shutting down of the current ones simply adds to people’s perceptions of unfairness, while Starmer going on telly threatening to chase down any rioters involved in the latest violence while staying silent on the Harehills one does nothing to help the situation.

While the police are right to try and track down the rioters (although Starmers seemingly rather draconian methods of doing so worry me from a privacy point of view) they need to be seen to be being consistent, making a big song and dance about one group while saying nothing about another isn’t going to win back the rapidly diminishing levels of trust, which have historically been uniquely quite high in Britain.

Unfortunately I can see this becoming another issue such as immigration, being constantly swept under the rug and peoples genuinely held fears and grievances (whether real or perceived) being ignored and ridiculed pushing the electorate to the extremes. 

[sonyc 5,971]

6 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

 

No I don't know the underlying reasons. Hence my many questions looking for possible ideas. I know that people have misgivings but I don't understand why. And I don't understand your point about it being "understandable". Help me understand perhaps rather than say that I know very well. I don't.

Have just seen Fen has responded so he may give me the information I'm struggling with.

Edited August 2 by sonyc

[horsefly 5,052]

4 hours ago, Comfortably numb said:

I agree with every single thing this man says and stands for. Just a shame he’s not PM!
 

 

Lying bollox. The Southport murders had nothing to do with illegal immigration or legal immigration. You do not excuse violent racist bigots trashing a UK town, looting shops, setting fire to police vehicles, and assaulting police officers on the grounds that they have "fears". Utterly specious and ridiculous tripe.

[Naturalcynic 817]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

No I don't know the underlying reasons. Hence my many questions looking for possible ideas. I know that people have misgivings but I don't understand why. And I don't understand your point about it being "understandable". Help me understand perhaps rather than say that I know very well. I don't.

Have just seen Fen has responded so he may give me the information I'm struggling with.

Living up to my username, I confess to being rather cynical about your claimed lack of understanding regarding the concerns of huge swathes of society.

[Foxy2600 341]

Each contribution to this thread is now 10 sides of A4.

Mansplaining at its worst! 
 

Which is why there's no women…

[Naturalcynic 817]

1 minute ago, Foxy2600 said:

Each contribution to this thread is now 10 sides of A4.

Mansplaining at its worst! 
 

Which is why there's no women…

How do you know that?

[sonyc 5,971]

1 minute ago, Naturalcynic said:

Living up to my username, I confess to being rather cynical about your claimed lack of understanding regarding the concerns of huge swathes of society.

Oh well never mind then. I have tried and it was an honest question. I want to understand why. I realise there are concerns of course but not where the underlying feelings come from. All the questions were openly expressed in my first post. There was no subterfuge in there. I just couldn't be bothered to post it if that was the case. As ever, maybe I should simply not ask here because you don't get a reply. Just put me in the box that you wish to and I am happy not to respond to you ahead. I genuinely wanted to know but it really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. 

[sonyc 5,971]

17 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I think you’re going to see more of this going forward though, as Britain is becoming more sectarian with various religious and ethnic groupings.

It’s fairly common around the world, especially in countries that have different ethnic or religious blocs for the victims “group” to respond angrily to tragic events, especially when committed by an outsider. It was less of an issue previously in mainland Britain when it was more homogeneous as both attacker and victim were nearly always of the same grouping so the anger tended to be directed at the individual themselves rather than a perceived “other”

The seemingly different policing methods also doesn’t help matters. The seemingly hands off approach to the BLM vandalis, Gaza protests and the Harehills riots compared to the (correct) heavy handed shutting down of the current ones simply adds to people’s perceptions of unfairness, while Starmer going on telly threatening to chase down any rioters involved in the latest violence while staying silent on the Harehills one does nothing to help the situation.

While the police are right to try and track down the rioters (although Starmers seemingly rather draconian methods of doing so worry me from a privacy point of view) they need to be seen to be being consistent, making a big song and dance about one group while saying nothing about another isn’t going to win back the rapidly diminishing levels of trust, which have historically been uniquely quite high in Britain.

Unfortunately I can see this becoming another issue such as immigration, being constantly swept under the rug and peoples genuinely held fears and grievances (whether real or perceived) being ignored and ridiculed pushing the electorate to the extremes. 

Thanks for a reasonable reply. I get that consistent policing is a key issue. Has trust in our society deteriorated? Have communities become less cohesive? Have you any sources for that? I would be interested to read if attitudes, crime levels etc have changed.

I want to know just why immigration is such a massive issue for some, above most other considerations. I should not have bothered to ask I guess. I wanted to try and understand the psyche of the rioter too. What makes a person do that?  The bloke last night on Newsnight was interesting (ex NF). He has changed his views and I think there is a lot to learn. 

I guess it's such a sensitive subject that I should just leave it alone because there is such a level of distrust. People are clearly scared so they cannot even exchange posts on a football forum. Unless it's to make insults of course (not to me but insults between others is a regular feature). And finally, one just gets the sense one ought to stay away from the subject. Too thorny. But why should we not actually try and understand one another?  Oh well.

[Foxy2600 341]

12 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

How do you know that?

1. Call me Mr Assumption if you like but I can’t imagine Cambridge, TIL, BUH, Dan, Neo, Greavesy, Inflatable, LYB et al being anything else.

2. I met a woman once who said to me in no uncertain terms, ‘you don’t have to explain yourself’

3. sand you’re right - I don’t 
AND

Edited August 2 by Foxy2600
It’s not her name

[sonyc 5,971]

1 minute ago, Foxy2600 said:

1. Call me Mr Assumption if you like but I can’t imagine Cambridge, TIL, BUH, Dan, Neo, Greavesy, Inflatable, LYB et al being anything else.

2. I met a woman once who said to me in no uncertain terms, ‘you don’t have to explain yourself’

3. sand you’re right - I don’t 🙂

You are 100% right. I miss Benchwarmer for example and there's a couple of women fans on the football side. Mrs sonyc always tells me I should sack it off. She is far more politically minded than I am, is more articulate and most of all, very funny with it. But she would never post here (or anywhere). 

Well said anyway.

[Foxy2600 341]

Just now, sonyc said:

You are 100% right. I miss Benchwarmer for example and there's a couple of women fans on the football side. Mrs sonyc always tells me I should sack it off. She is far more politically minded than I am, is more articulate and most of all, very funny with it. But she would never post here (or anywhere). 

Well said anyway.

As it’s my birthday I’m a little Stella’d up …

Chichester Wetherspoons after a gruelling day at Goodwood 

Thanks, I think 🐴 🍺 🙂🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[Naturalcynic 817]

13 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thanks for a reasonable reply. I get that consistent policing is a key issue. Has trust in our society deteriorated? Have communities become less cohesive? Have you any sources for that? I would be interested to read if attitudes, crime levels etc have changed.

I want to know just why immigration is such a massive issue for some, above most other considerations. I should not have bothered to ask I guess. I wanted to try and understand the psyche of the rioter too. What makes a person do that?  The bloke last night on Newsnight was interesting (ex NF). He has changed his views and I think there is a lot to learn. 

I guess it's such a sensitive subject that I should just leave it alone because there is such a level of distrust. People are clearly scared so they cannot even exchange posts on a football forum. Unless it's to make insults of course (not to me but insults between others is a regular feature). And finally, one just gets the sense one ought to stay away from the subject. Too thorny. But why should we not actually try and understand one another?  Oh well.

Understanding each other is a two-way process.  Despite your protestations that you’re merely trying to appreciate why many have profound concerns, your continued probing suggests strongly that you know very well the reasons why but clearly your views differ (which is fair enough).  

[canarydan23 4,561]

4 hours ago, Comfortably numb said:

It’s incumbent for any sitting government to protect its citizens. Stopping criminal males entering a country should be at the top of the agenda.

I think criminal males smashing up taxpayer's property and assaulting the police has replaced whatever might have been top the agenda in keeping the country safe.

[Naturalcynic 817]

On 02/08/2024 at 20:39, canarydan23 said:

I think criminal males smashing up taxpayer's property and assaulting the police has replaced whatever might have been top the agenda in keeping the country safe.

It’s not a binary choice.  Only an idiot would condone violence.

Edited August 12 by Naturalcynic

[cornish sam 1,012]

Why do people here keep comparing the policing of this to the policing of the hare hills riots? Hare hills riots were caused by white British people fighting the social services trying to remove a child from an unsafe environment, this was racially motivated far right stoked rioting being orchestrated by agitator groups. They are a very different kind of thing. And all of the comments about the support of Palestine being anti Semitic, it simply isn't. To object to the foreign policy of the Jewish state is not to protest to Jewishness, the Israeli state is currently led by a right wing nationalist cabal who are stoking aggression and unrest in the region to try and justify their expansionist aims and essentially racist views whilst committing untold atrocities not just against the Palestinians but now also against the Lebanese.