Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil

[Creative Midfielder 2,189]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

We only get about 50% of our gas from our own sources. The rest is imported - Norway is the biggest supplier. I guess that their pipeline is our biggest vulnerability.

Hopefully, the increasing emphasis on domestically produced green energy, will ease this vulnerability. Also interesting to hear about CM's example of microgeneration and micro storage. Imagine this being reproduced in tens of millions of houses across the UK!

Tens of millions will take some time but I imagine that most of the people who have installed solar PV will have also installed an integrated battery system as well whih is obviously simpler & cheaper than having to retrofit it as I did.

The other thing that would give a huge boost to the numbers of people with energy storage at home will be when the car manufacturers and the charging point manufacturers finally get their acts together and provide two way charging as standard - that would give hundreds of thousands of really beefy domestic energy storage 'units' straightaway.

Edited August 1 by Creative Midfielder

[Creative Midfielder 2,189]

17 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Battery storage isn't going to more than a marginal element in my opinion,  they might be getting better- but improving on a  low base doesn't mean much.  

Way behind the times I'm afraid BB - I worked on a project a couple of years ago to convert a diesel railway shunter to battery only operation. The shunter itself weighed 350 tons, which of course is only a tiny fraction of the weight it actually pulls - I wouldn't describe the batteries we used as anything like a 'low base' - and that was now 3 year old technology.

Last year one of the big Chinese battery manufacturers who produce primarily batteries for EVs announced that they had doubled the storage capacity of their batteries (same size & slightly lighter) - that is quite some improvement and extremely significant in that will make it pretty straightforward for EVs to match or better the range of petrol vehicles with a same number of batteries that they currently use - significant cost reduction as well.

[Yellow Fever 4,338]

4 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Tens of millions will take some time but I imagine that most of the people who have installed solar PV will have also installed an integrated battery system as well whih is obviously simpler & cheaper than having to retrofit it as I did.

The other thing that would give a huge boost to the numbers of people with energy storage at home will be when the car manufacturers and the charging point manufacturers finally get their acts together and provide two way charging as standard - that would give hundreds of thousands of really beefy domestic energy storage 'units' straightaway.

I actually think this will eventually make a huge overwhelming contribution. Most cars spend the vast majority of their time stationary (two in my drive as I write)

[Barbe bleu 1,000]

8 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Way behind the times I'm afraid BB - I worked on a project a couple of years ago to convert a diesel railway shunter to battery only operation. The shunter itself weighed 350 tons, which of course is only a tiny fraction of the weight it actually pulls - I wouldn't describe the batteries we used as anything like a 'low base' - and that was now 3 year old technology.

Last year one of the big Chinese battery manufacturers who produce primarily batteries for EVs announced that they had doubled the storage capacity of their batteries (same size & slightly lighter) - that is quite some improvement and extremely significant in that will make it pretty straightforward for EVs to match or better the range of petrol vehicles with a same number of batteries that they currently use - significant cost reduction as well.

Well I hope you are right.snd I am.surw thst battery tech is improving.  But I can't see the country running on battery anytime soon.

If we are going for to replace all fossil fuels with renewables then either we do go full tidal and just accept that environmental consequences of that or we will need to be able from time to time to run,  what 75%?,  of the country from a  battery, that's one hell of a lot more than running  a train or a car. 

If we are truly serious about taking fossil fuels out of the equation it's going to need more nuclear, African solar, or tidal - or a mix thereof-   all else is wishful thinking.

 

[Badger 2,743]

23 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Tens of millions will take some time but I imagine that most of the people who have installed solar PV will have also installed an integrated battery system as well whih is obviously simpler & cheaper than having to retrofit it as I did.

The other thing that would give a huge boost to the numbers of people with energy storage at home will be when the car manufacturers and the charging point manufacturers finally get their acts together and provide two way charging as standard - that would give hundreds of thousands of really beefy domestic energy storage 'units' straightaway.

I'm sure it will take time, but if we can build 2-3,00,000 thousand houses PS I can't see why we can install PV on millions of houses pa once the infrastructure has been built up.

What is two-way charging and what are its advantages?

[Yellow Fever 4,338]

20 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I actually think this will eventually make a huge overwhelming contribution. Most cars spend the vast majority of their time stationary (two in my drive as I write)

On that subject - I recently bought a new plug-in hybrid (the sort that can do circa 30 miles full electric) - c. 100KWH battery. Did a quick estimate of how many weekly full charges for usual local running around (say 2 - 3) and what that would cost. Was thinking cheap overnight top-up etc.

Did the maths and discovered that the 'tarrifs' for cheap overnight electricity generally came with more expensive day time rates - sneaky - and given a largish family house it was actually cheaper even charging the car to stick to the best 'anytime' rates. No worries or hassles about when to charge the car or run the dishwasher at all - peak times as good as any!

Somebodies having a laugh it seems !

[Badger 2,743]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

On that subject - I recently bought a new plug-in hybrid (the sort that can do circa 30 miles full electric) - c. 100KWH battery. Did a quick estimate of how many weekly full charges for usual local running around (say 2 - 3) and what that would cost. Was thinking cheap overnight top-up etc.

Did the maths and discovered that the 'tarrifs' for cheap overnight electricity generally came with more expensive day time rates - sneaky - and given a largish family house it was actually cheaper even charging the car to stick to the best 'anytime' rates. No worries or hassles about when to charge the car or run the dishwasher at all - peak times as good as any!

Somebodies having a laugh it seems !

Yes, the delights of privatised pricing. Bought a train ticket lately? 🤯

[Creative Midfielder 2,189]

On 02/08/2024 at 10:53, Badger said:

I'm sure it will take time, but if we can build 2-3,00,000 thousand houses PS I can't see why we can install PV on millions of houses pa once the infrastructure has been built up.

What is two-way charging and what are its advantages?

I think there may be a few domestic EV charging systems that already do this (but if so it may be only for certain cars), in general at the moment most domestic charge points only provide the facility to charge the EV battery

But there has been work going on now for quite a while to reach an agreement between car manufacturers and charge manufacturers on standards that will allow energy to flow in either direction. So two way charing is a bit of a misnomer but that seems to be the term being used.

So now if you own an EV you almost certainly will go for a ToU electricity tariff to give yourself 5 or 6 hours of very cheap overnight electricity which obviously reduces the cost of motoring very considerably.

However the savings would far higher still (and would very helpfully lower the peak load on the grid) if you could power your home all day (and night) from the cheap energy stored in your EV.

Of course your EV has to be on the drive for it to work but as YF recently pointed with the retired, the workers from home, and multiple car families, there seem to be an awful lot of homes nowadays with cars on the drive during the day and if you do go out in the car then you maybe aren't using much energy at home anyway.

Overnight EV charging is probably already slightly balancing up the day\night demand but there is still a big disparity which will remain as we add more capacity.

Two way charging would be great way of balancing up the night/day demand and of course smoothing demand - the sudden spikes in demand which are such a headache for National Grid and very costly for suppliers such as when millions of people simultaneously put the kettle at half time in Coronation Street (or was it the World Cup Final 😀 ) would be a thing of the past.

 

Edited August 3 by Creative Midfielder

[Creative Midfielder 2,189]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

On that subject - I recently bought a new plug-in hybrid (the sort that can do circa 30 miles full electric) - c. 100KWH battery. Did a quick estimate of how many weekly full charges for usual local running around (say 2 - 3) and what that would cost. Was thinking cheap overnight top-up etc.

Did the maths and discovered that the 'tarrifs' for cheap overnight electricity generally came with more expensive day time rates - sneaky - and given a largish family house it was actually cheaper even charging the car to stick to the best 'anytime' rates. No worries or hassles about when to charge the car or run the dishwasher at all - peak times as good as any!

Somebodies having a laugh it seems !

I think you have got you figures, or perhaps, your units wrong there YF - I've got a fully electric EV with a 64kWh battery which does 280+ miles on a full charge!

TBF I don't think the electricity companies are being that sneaky, its pretty clear if you compare the tariffs and certainly in my case the uplift on the day rate was pretty small - it's the standing charge that really bugs me!

But you're right that for a plug-in hybrid the trade-off probably doesn't work, whereas with fully electric its a no brainer especially if you can programme energy intensive applicances such as dishwashers and washing machines to run in the cheap overnight period as well as charging your car.

[Yellow Fever 4,338]

40 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think you have got you figures, or perhaps, your units wrong there YF - I've got a fully electric EV with a 64kWh battery which does 280+ miles on a full charge!

TBF I don't think the electricity companies are being that sneaky, its pretty clear if you compare the tariffs and certainly in my case the uplift on the day rate was pretty small - it's the standing charge that really bugs me!

But you're right that for a plug-in hybrid the trade-off probably doesn't work, whereas with fully electric its a no brainer especially if you can programme energy intensive applicances such as dishwashers and washing machines to run in the cheap overnight period as well as charging your car.

Yes - 14KWH. I did the sums last winter. It made no sense for 'economy7'  unless your were intent driving many tens of mile a day fully electric.

 

[Yellow Fever 4,338]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Yes, the delights of privatised pricing. Bought a train ticket lately? 🤯

No. Cheaper to drive.

[Badger 2,743]

27 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No. Cheaper to drive.

Depends where you go and where you park. £25 a day to park in central Manchester; London you have the congestion charge (not ULEZ - despite what you hear in the press, most cars don't pay it) + even bigger parking charges.

[Barbe bleu 1,000]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

 (not ULEZ - despite what you hear in the press, most cars don't pay it) 

That's going to be a real comfort to the people who still can't afford a new car.

Still, the second ULEZ expansion did lead to a near immaterial 4.4% reduction in NO2 levels right next to the road on its first 6 months of operation. 

pointless policy that has acheived nothing and cost a lot. 

 

Edited August 2 by Barbe bleu

[Fen Canary 1,404]

6 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

On that subject - I recently bought a new plug-in hybrid (the sort that can do circa 30 miles full electric) - c. 100KWH battery. Did a quick estimate of how many weekly full charges for usual local running around (say 2 - 3) and what that would cost. Was thinking cheap overnight top-up etc.

Did the maths and discovered that the 'tarrifs' for cheap overnight electricity generally came with more expensive day time rates - sneaky - and given a largish family house it was actually cheaper even charging the car to stick to the best 'anytime' rates. No worries or hassles about when to charge the car or run the dishwasher at all - peak times as good as any!

Somebodies having a laugh it seems !

What happens if you live in a house with no/limited off street parking if the entire country goes electric? Do you have to go and sit at the petrol station for an hour paying for their chargers every time your battery gets low?

[Naturalcynic 817]

30 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

What happens if you live in a house with no/limited off street parking if the entire country goes electric? Do you have to go and sit at the petrol station for an hour paying for their chargers every time your battery gets low?

I’m sure there’ll be no end of “no win, no fee” lawyers happy to act for clients claiming to have tripped over peoples charging cables trailing across the pavement between their house and their car.