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Attanasio investing in Benfica ….

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The worst possible news. If there was anyone still out there who thought Attanasio was doing us a favour I'm afraid they've woken up to a reality check. 

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14 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The worst possible news. If there was anyone still out there who thought Attanasio was doing us a favour I'm afraid they've woken up to a reality check. 

I think everyone recognises he is a business man but ultimately we have to do well for this to happen.

worth noting his initial 260 million dollar investment at brewers is now worth 1.6 billion and he still hasn’t cashed in his chips. 

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19 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Wonder if this is any way aligned to his relationship with us ??

https://x.com/novy_williams/status/1799107426110812210?s=46&t=Mz16rA0vbhYcb-etPB8ovA

He has been pretty open about how he wants to invest in sports and is adding a slice on Benfica to his portfolio. 

No information on whether he is driving this share purchase, or just one of a group who are looking to buy the shares. 

I don’t think it will have any functional impact on Norwich. There is a significant difference between being a minority shareholder at Benfica and the effective owner of Norwich. If he continues to increase his ownership of Benfica then it is a larger concern as Norwich may find themselves as the junior team in a multi club ownership. Which is definitely not a good thing. 

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Benfica have the most profitable academy in the world.

This makes me seriously fear for our future on two fronts.

Firstly, he may have realised that we're essentially going to be a money pit and that trying to fund a promotion and establishing ourselves in the Premier League is going to require substantial investment with a high risk of no return, whereas Benfica is a safer bet.

Secondly, as Bethnal points out, if he ends up the majority shareholder in both clubs, it is more likely that Benfica will acquire our best academy products than us acquiring theirs, even if we end up establishing ourselves as a club that can cling on to 16th in the Premier League for a few seasons.

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But what happens if we both qualify for the Champions League??? 😏

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39 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The worst possible news. If there was anyone still out there who thought Attanasio was doing us a favour I'm afraid they've woken up to a reality check. 

Exactly. He's in it for the money. Calclates the risk, puts the money in if he can see a viable return. We're a long term project for him but his motivation remains his bottom line. He's not cuddly Uncle Mark who loves us all, he wants to make money. But, as we have all been crying out for an investor well that's what we've got!

Having said that, Girona haven't done too badly out of being a junior partner in thevMan City cartel, so....

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9 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

Exactly. He's in it for the money. Calclates the risk, puts the money in if he can see a viable return. We're a long term project for him but his motivation remains his bottom line. He's not cuddly Uncle Mark who loves us all, he wants to make money. But, as we have all been crying out for an investor well that's what we've got!

Having said that, Girona haven't done too badly out of being a junior partner in thevMan City cartel, so....

That being so any reason why he hasn’t sold the brewers for a colossal profit ?

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15 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

That being so any reason why he hasn’t sold the brewers for a colossal profit ?

I'm guessing because their value is still going up.

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Atanasio is just expanding his portfolio. It’s all money at the end of the day .ITFC is now owned by a pension fund (who have hundreds of other investments) and Brightstar who are a US PE firm with other investments 

In most cases they put oversight on the boards. The Binners have American directors as we do . 
 

There are two significant issues . 
 

1 the extent of Atanasios involvement and his control and steer. It seems he wants controlling interest so he can run the club. I see that as hopefully positive

2 his exit strategy . The pension fund for the Binners shave already revealed their intention by selling 40% . Cashed in. A PE firm will necessarily be looking for return - either interest payments or capital from a sale (as the pension fund already has)

Absolutely no one is going to do what Delia and Micheal did . We need money and this is how you get it in the modern global money markets. 
 

 

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This is what the fans wanted though, right? We didn't want fans as owners because they just make "emotional" decisions.

We wanted experienced football club owners (ignore the fact Delia and Michael are two of the more experienced owners in football).

We wanted a money man. Which means they are only interested on the basis of more money. 

So this shouldn't be a massive surprise - the issue is if he's intending to fully own Benfica and we become the small club in the chain.

 

 

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This could be a 10 pager when you could sum it up in one response 

American investor invests  

done 

 

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It seems that Benfica are fan owned, so highly unlikely that Attanasio would ever get a controlling stake.

I do wonder if Jean-Mac Chapus is one of the unnamed investors in Norfolk Holdings though. I still find it a little grating that although they needed to disclose to the EFL all the investors within Norfolk Holdings, there is no need for the EFL or anyone else to inform the fans who actually owns the club.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Benfica have the most profitable academy in the world.

This makes me seriously fear for our future on two fronts.

Firstly, he may have realised that we're essentially going to be a money pit and that trying to fund a promotion and establishing ourselves in the Premier League is going to require substantial investment with a high risk of no return, whereas Benfica is a safer bet.

Secondly, as Bethnal points out, if he ends up the majority shareholder in both clubs, it is more likely that Benfica will acquire our best academy products than us acquiring theirs, even if we end up establishing ourselves as a club that can cling on to 16th in the Premier League for a few seasons.

From an investor's point of view, you want as many successful businesses as you can get. We don't compete with Benfica, but if their academy is the best in the world then his investment represents an opportunity for our academy to get knowledge from them and make our academy more effective.

Overall, his focus will be on identifying the practises at all of his sports businesses that get the best results and seeking to ensure that every one of them adopts the best practises of all of the others to ensure that all succeed.

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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Wouldn't it be interesting for the South American link? Go to Portugal for a bit to develop, and then come over to the Championship when it is easier for the work permits. 

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Will the pork an' cheese make him hang around for three years whilst they check him out?....

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2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The worst possible news. If there was anyone still out there who thought Attanasio was doing us a favour I'm afraid they've woken up to a reality check. 

This is great news, we can get some young Benfica players on loan or to buy and they can take our better players as well if it suits us. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Benfica have the most profitable academy in the world.

This makes me seriously fear for our future on two fronts.

Firstly, he may have realised that we're essentially going to be a money pit and that trying to fund a promotion and establishing ourselves in the Premier League is going to require substantial investment with a high risk of no return, whereas Benfica is a safer bet.

Secondly, as Bethnal points out, if he ends up the majority shareholder in both clubs, it is more likely that Benfica will acquire our best academy products than us acquiring theirs, even if we end up establishing ourselves as a club that can cling on to 16th in the Premier League for a few seasons.

Benfica are a big club but the Portuguese league is only slightly better than the Scottish PL arguably. 

I don’t see many players dumping a shot at the EPL or being given better than a Champs wage to move to Portugal (however nice it is), especially if they are British. 

I’m not saying we are on the same level as Benfica to be clear, I just don’t think it’s that big a jump in the money stakes. Everyone always talks about the lure of European football when moving to Celtic or Rangers for instance but they often lose out to Champs clubs like Cordoba just showed.

Edited by Monty13

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Soldier on said:

That being so any reason why he hasn’t sold the brewers for a colossal profit ?

Probably because he has allowed himself owning one sporting outfit that comes from the heart, while any others come from the head.

Generally, I must say there are some very strange reactions to this story. GPB and Hogesar aamong those excepted.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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In a couple of years time they'll be buying IPL, Hundred & T20 franchises, Cricket will be the next investment for rich Americans.

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

This is what the fans wanted though, right? We didn't want fans as owners because they just make "emotional" decisions.

We wanted experienced football club owners (ignore the fact Delia and Michael are two of the more experienced owners in football).

We wanted a money man. Which means they are only interested on the basis of more money. 

So this shouldn't be a massive surprise - the issue is if he's intending to fully own Benfica and we become the small club in the chain.

 

 

Everyone would love fans with a billion to chuck in, the problem was Delia and Michael are very poor owners and are to old. If we want to try to keep up this is the risk we take. We all know every money man wants something back, the only way he gets that is make us more successful,  at least they have experience in sport. Change had to happen. 

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26 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Benfica are a big club but the Portuguese league is only slightly better than the Scottish PL arguably. 

I don’t see many players dumping a shot at the EPL or being given better than a Champs wage to move to Portugal (however nice it is), especially if they are British. 

I’m not saying we are on the same level as Benfica to be clear, I just don’t think it’s that big a jump in the money stakes. Everyone always talks about the lure of European football when moving to Celtic or Rangers for instance but they often lose out to Champs clubs like Cordoba just showed.

You can't see our best 16 year olds wanting to go to worlds most profitable football academy?

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2 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

But what happens if we both qualify for the Champions League??? 😏

I will be happy to deal with that when it happens,  be disappointed if we lose the final to them though.  

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Until Attanasio takes over we won’t truly get a feel for how he will run us. At least we head hunted a manager this summer rather than took a freebie already on the market .

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Under S&J we did get a vote on Attanasio, only with a financial gun to our head which tells the story both in terms of financial management and fan involvement.

Perhaps involvement with Benfica is evidence of commitment to fan involvement in which case a good outcome? Even if a junior partner of sorts the example of Girona in Spain is a good one. 

 

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I would have thought that the best way for Attanasio to get a significant return on his investment here would be for us to achieve promotion and "establish" ourselves in the PL for a decent stretch. Hugely challenging but not impossible. 

Benfica having a successful academy ties in nicely with the direction NCFC are heading and could potentially be mutually beneficial, as do the direct links between Portugal and Brazil/South America. 

Glass half-full perhaps, but this may be a savvy move by MA? Would it be beneficial or detrimental to NCFC if he started dipping his toes into a Spanish or Italian club who also place an emphasis on their academy? Resources spread too thinly etc...?

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3 minutes ago, paddycanary said:

I would have thought that the best way for Attanasio to get a significant return on his investment here would be for us to achieve promotion and "establish" ourselves in the PL for a decent stretch. Hugely challenging but not impossible. 

Benfica having a successful academy ties in nicely with the direction NCFC are heading and could potentially be mutually beneficial, as do the direct links between Portugal and Brazil/South America. 

Glass half-full perhaps, but this may be a savvy move by MA? Would it be beneficial or detrimental to NCFC if he started dipping his toes into a Spanish or Italian club who also place an emphasis on their academy? Resources spread too thinly etc...?

One of the interviews post AgM I am sure he mentioned discussing with knapper the possibility of acquiring another club. Pretty sure he wouldn’t have had Benfica in mind though ?

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Posted (edited)

English/European football clubs are attractive to US investors who want to invest in sport, as they are a lot cheaper than US alternatives - you need billions to invest in American football/baseball/basketball franchises.

The exit strategy, unless you own one of the biggest English clubs, will almost certainly be capital appreciation. You can buy into a decent sized English club for tens of millions, and if you are established in the PL, then you can sell for 5-10x what you have invested.

Attanasio now owns 40% of the ordinary shares of the club, for a total cash outlay of around £8m.  He has also invested £10m in preference shares, which is earning him £700k pa (7% interest rate).  

Using the £25/share price that Attanasio paid for his shares, this currently 'values' the club around £20m, which on the face of it is cheap. You would imagine a few years down the line, especially if PL status is regained, the club will be worth a lot more than Attanasio paid. 

It will be interesting to see if Attanasio brings in new investors or seeks to go it alone once Delia steps aside. The pension fund owning Ipswich have invested around £100m since the takeover, including around £20m per season to cover their overspend. The pension fund has not sold any of their shares to the new private equity investors. Instead, the PE investors have agreed to subscribe to £100m of new shares over the next five years. This means the pension fund will not need to increase their investment for some time. They have effectively de-risked their investment by bringing in other investors, in return for owning a smaller percentage of the club. Their exist strategy will be to sell on to someone else for a profit, same as I would expect it to be for Attanasio.  

Edited by Up and Away
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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Benfica are a big club but the Portuguese league is only slightly better than the Scottish PL arguably. 

I don’t see many players dumping a shot at the EPL or being given better than a Champs wage to move to Portugal (however nice it is), especially if they are British. 

I’m not saying we are on the same level as Benfica to be clear, I just don’t think it’s that big a jump in the money stakes. Everyone always talks about the lure of European football when moving to Celtic or Rangers for instance but they often lose out to Champs clubs like Cordoba just showed.

The Portuguese league is considerably stronger than the Scottish one. It is though dominated by 3 clubs , with 2 others who often participate in the Europa or Conference league.

Edited by Commonsense

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