canarybubbles 2,112 Posted June 3 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Newtopia said: Totally right, Zimmerman made a stand, we all argued about the merits, and some people didn’t like Zimmerman as much and some thought he was a champion of free speech. It would be interesting to know what the club felt. Does anyone know if Zimmerman ever made the rationale for his decision public? I'd be interested to know his reasoning because I feel as certain as I can be that it wasn't bigotry. Edited June 3 by canarybubbles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromage Frais 14 Posted June 3 6 hours ago, canarybubbles said: According to the 2007 Pew Global Attitudes Project, 98 percent[a] of Malian adults believed that homosexuality is considered something society should not accept, which was the highest rate of non-acceptance in the 45 countries surveyed. (From Wikipedia) So if he's homophobic, it's no surprise. Most of us tend to end up believing what everyone else believes in our society and we can't expect Camara to be any different from the rest of us. Yes and people in such countries actually believe in their religion literally taking it very seriously. Whilst it is easy for some posters have to dismiss this as "goatherder's" it is their sincerely held belief. No doubt he will be seen as a hero for standing up. They take a 24 year old lad from Mail pay him to play football and then expect him to be a vanguard for a campaign he clearly does not believe in. How about another angle There are loads of players in the French league whom are Muslim/religious etc and so far not many did this. If that is progress/tolerance that is really good going. If it's is fear/acquiescence not so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtopia 562 Posted June 3 3 hours ago, canarybubbles said: Does anyone know if Zimmerman ever made the rationale for his decision public? I'd be interested to know his reasoning because I feel as certain as I can be that it wasn't bigotry. I do not recall anything being mentioned. His career seemed to limited at that point although I thought it was curtailed by injury, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 2,974 Posted June 3 Pretty sure that it was later on and he explained he wasn't doing it as he believed that doing it continuously weakened the message, not that he disagreed with the message or refused to support BLM. @Fen, the PFA are the union that represent players in this country. France has the equivelent. Players have the freedom to use that union to voice concerns about their treatment the same as any union does for employees. However, if they are expressing views considered to be prejudiced, the union has responsibilities to educate and share expectations too. Yes, there might be clashes in culture, but it's important that precedents of exception are made purely on those grounds. Our societies laws and expectations must apply to all. Otherwise we can return to stoning to death adulterous women in public spaces. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,802 Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, chicken said: as he believed that doing it continuously weakened the message, not that he disagreed with the message or refused to support BLM. That is how I remembered reading about it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 2,974 Posted June 3 Just now, shefcanary said: That is how I remembered reading about it! That's good enough for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 2,981 Posted June 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, Newtopia said: Totally right, Zimmerman made a stand, we all argued about the merits, and some people didn’t like Zimmerman as much and some thought he was a champion of free speech. It would be interesting to know what the club felt. I think BLM was much muddier, given that it was a specific organisation. Also thought adopting a gesture from an American footballer protesting civil society in the US was somewhat ridiculous; conversations about racism may share some common themes, but the details are specific to the nation. In fact, I think importing a lot of the US debate has sent race relations in the UK backwards. Edited June 3 by littleyellowbirdie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromage Frais 14 Posted June 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said: I think BLM was much muddier, given that it was a specific organisation. Also thought adopting a gesture from an American footballer protesting civil society in the US was somewhat ridiculous; conversations about racism may share some common themes, but the details are specific to the nation. In fact, I think importing a lot of the US debate has sent race relations in the UK backwards. Agreed. This campaign in France is more like Kick it Out as at the end of the day you can still not approve of homosexuality and agree that you do not have to abuse anyone. But again if the player does not agree the club should have given him a plain shirt/stood him down as either way crossing it over it with tape is not a good look and counter productive..... It will be interesting to see if the player agreed to wear the shirt and then did this off his own accord..... which would then be almost a reverse virtue signal the other way. Edited June 3 by Fromage Frais 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 800 Posted June 3 9 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said: If he was an environmentalist how would he have got to the interview/medical?............. Train Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,178 Posted June 3 27 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: Train So he could travel to away games by train/coach whilst the rest of the squad go by plane, problem solved....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 800 Posted June 3 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said: So he could travel to away games by train/coach whilst the rest of the squad go by plane, problem solved....... Worked for Dennis Bergkamp........... Edited June 3 by JonnyJonnyRowe Edited to include loads of dots. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 2,974 Posted June 3 3 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: Worked for Dennis Bergkamp........... It didn't... he had a fear of flying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 353 Posted June 3 (edited) 13 hours ago, canarybubbles said: Does anyone know if Zimmerman ever made the rationale for his decision public? I'd be interested to know his reasoning because I feel as certain as I can be that it wasn't bigotry. He never had too. I suspect he just knew kneeling in support of Patrice Colours buying several L.A. mansions was not the way forward. Who would have guessed that at the time? Edited June 3 by Iwans Big Toe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 800 Posted June 3 (edited) 42 minutes ago, chicken said: It didn't... he had a fear of flying. Exactly, so he never flew. That is what I was saying? Edited June 3 by JonnyJonnyRowe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 2,974 Posted June 4 13 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: Exactly, so he never flew. That is what I was saying? Yup, but it 'didn't work'. He missed games. Either because he had to travel to mid week European games and might not get back in time for a game two days later, miss training or it was decided he was better off staying at base and being better prepared for the league fixture etc. It was managed, not perfect though. That's just for Arsenal, not the Dutch national side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,763 Posted June 4 On 03/06/2024 at 10:06, Captain Holt said: Is this any different to Farke and Zimmerman not taking the knee to support Black Lives Matter, a similarly anti-prejudice message? I think it's different-it would have been similar if Zimmerman had been doing a Hitler salute while the other players were taking the knee, or maybe miming a policeman killing George Floyd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
