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1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Oh dear ūüėā

Along came D√ľsseldorf.

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Least this should mean he’s back and our player to decide the future of again, good news.

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Just knocked out on penalties -so Bochum stay up and Fortuna will not go up, no money for Tzolis it would now appear

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More money more like. They had a 5 million option. After the season he has had we should comfortably be able to sell him to somewhere in Europe for more !!!!

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Yeah, I got a suspicion that a certain line in a certain Herbert Grönemeyer song is going to get real emphasis for those of a Bochum persuasion tonight.

"Hier, wo das Herz noch zählt,
Nicht das große Geld
Wer wohnt schon in D√ľsseldorf?"

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17 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Yep, hopefully there's enough interest to generate something of a bidding war. I can't imagine we'll keep him as there as many reasons why selling makes more sense.

The studio commentators were saying the fee would drop to £3m if Fortuna did not go up - which does not make much sense.

Hopefully the club will soon clarify things

Though even at £3m it was thought Fortuna would not be able, or wiilling more like, to raise/spend that type of money

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3 minutes ago, RobJames said:

The studio commentators were saying the fee would drop to £3m if Fortuna did not go up - which does not make much sense.

Hopefully the club will soon clarify things

Though even at £3m it was thought Fortuna would not be able, or wiilling more like, to raise/spend that type of money

Agreed, that makes no sense whatsoever. I've never heard of an option to buy being reduced on failing to achieve promotion and surely that can't be the case here, can it?

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8 hours ago, BigFish said:

That is not the question, is he good enough - and the same goes for Idah. That is also not how club is , or should be thinking. The first question is what does the team need, what is the definition of good, or rather good enough. Every player we have comes with limitations, indeed most club legends were flawed in some way. Otherwise we cannot afford them, ot they don't stay. Both Idah and Tzolis are good players, with excellent attributes, capable of succeeding in the Chumps. Both have limitations as well, Tzolis will not press and Idah is not a target man.

Do we want a skillful goal scoring wide player who doesn't defend (and we did with Huckerby)? Do we want a quick goal scoring striker who can run in behind but we cannot successfuly hit with long balls from the back (like we did with Pukki). Or do we want something else (like Wagner went with Springett, PP, Hwang, SVH), and if so what?

 

Some of A and some of B.

Huckerby played so well for us owing to Drury behind him. Drury didn't push forward so much so Huckerby didn't have to defend so much.

Anyway, to the point at hand. Huckerby was too good not to be fitted into the side. We needed goals and he gave us goals. Is Tzolis so good that he has to be included somehow? A better question is whether or not we'll have a say if they take up the option they have on him?

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Well I watched and frankly was not that impressed.A couple of decent touches,walked around most of the time,took almost all of the freekicks and corners but didnt give me the impression that he would make a big difference here.

Over to you Knapper.

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Intriguing prospect. Personally think he will still be used to generate funds, but with such a youth-friendly coach, there's mo guarantees.

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9 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Oh dear ūüėā

I said 'should be'... and it should have been, but they bottled it!

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10 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Agreed, that makes no sense whatsoever. I've never heard of an option to buy being reduced on failing to achieve promotion and surely that can't be the case here, can it?

It doesn't seem that strange. It is similar to Norwich signing Emi for £1.5m but then having to pay extra to make it £5m after promotion. I would presume it was written into the deal that should Dusseldorf get promoted in the following season or two then they would have had to pay the difference.

Considering Dusseldorf's Sporting Director has admitted that they agreed the deal for Tzolis with Norwich, knowing they wouldn't be able to afford it, I doubt there is much chance of him staying there. I also expect Tzolis wouldn't want to go back now, knowing that there are surely a bunch of Budesliga teams in for him. 

 

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59 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

It doesn't seem that strange. It is similar to Norwich signing Emi for £1.5m but then having to pay extra to make it £5m after promotion. I would presume it was written into the deal that should Dusseldorf get promoted in the following season or two then they would have had to pay the difference.

Add-ons relating to a club being promoted are common, but I've never heard of an option to buy being reduced if a club fails to meet certain targets. 

Unless the option to buy was £3m all along, but there was a promotion add-on written in?

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1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Add-ons relating to a club being promoted are common, but I've never heard of an option to buy being reduced if a club fails to meet certain targets. 

Unless the option to buy was £3m all along, but there was a promotion add-on written in?

That's basically what it is, isn't it? A promotion bonus.

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21 hours ago, hogesar said:

I dont think Tzolis could play striker - or anywhere centrally, in England at least, to be honest. His work rate isn't good, he is very poor at playing with his back to goal and actually, his first touch isn't fantastic and he isn't blessed with pace either. 

He has only performed in poorer leagues when on the left hand side cutting inside and being given space. He has a decent read of the game for playing balls into others but only in a situation where he can see the game in front of him so again, as a striker that's a big no.

OK! Brave of you to contradict my fabled expertise in strikers, but I will try a different track! Would you rather¬†have Hernandez or Tzolis in the squad for next season.ūüėć

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12 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Add-ons relating to a club being promoted are common, but I've never heard of an option to buy being reduced if a club fails to meet certain targets. 

The deal according to some Greek media was apparently 3.5m rising to 5m (Euros) if they got promoted.  Would be nice to have known this beforehand really, there were rumours that the price was low, but we were then told that we'd almost get back what we paid.   A bit of Webber spin I expect (?).

What makes this so frustrating is how one season we're promoting him as being one of the hottest talents in Europe and then slinging him out the door for the likes of a ****house in Ramsey the next.

The saving grace is Sainz, thankfully.  But it's still very frustrating that we've not had a coach up to the task of building him as a City player.

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20 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

The deal according to some Greek media was apparently 3.5m rising to 5m (Euros) if they got promoted.  Would be nice to have known this beforehand really, there were rumours that the price was low, but we were then told that we'd almost get back what we paid.   A bit of Webber spin I expect (?).

What makes this so frustrating is how one season we're promoting him as being one of the hottest talents in Europe and then slinging him out the door for the likes of a ****house in Ramsey the next.

The saving grace is Sainz, thankfully.  But it's still very frustrating that we've not had a coach up to the task of building him as a City player.

Without knowing what Norwich finally ended up paying for Tzolis, or if Dusseldorf paid a large initial fee for Tzolis, it is hard to know how close Norwich would have been to getting their money back on the deal.

I suspect that now he'll return this summer and be of great interest to a number of German clubs, Norwich will most likely recoup their initial fee. They will never get back the opportunity cost of course, probably the greatest damage from the deal, but they were prepared to take the risk on him.

It seems fairly clear that Cristos never settled in Norfolk, Farke bombed him out of the squad pretty quickly and despite Smith and Wagner both apparently being keen to work with him, they could never get him firing. Twente were also suitably unimpressed with him and were happy to cancel the loan deal 6 months early.

Some players need the right environment to get going and player development is never linear. Cristos burst onto the scene at his home town club in empty stadiums - the interviews with him always made him seem a little immature (go back and watch the one PAOK made when he left, he was living with his parents and seemed incredible shy). It has taken him a little while to find his feet away from home and that can happen. While his talent had been on display at PAOK, forging a successful career in football will always take more than talent alone. 

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1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Would be nice to have known this beforehand really, there were rumours that the price was low, but we were then told that we'd almost get back what we paid.   A bit of Webber spin I expect (?).

With loans fees, if we get £5m I think that will balance the books cash wise. So not spin exactly ... just fast and loose as always.

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

OK! Brave of you to contradict my fabled expertise in strikers, but I will try a different track! Would you rather¬†have Hernandez or Tzolis in the squad for next season.ūüėć

On pure footballing ability, Tzolis.

But unfortunately I don't think Tzolis is particularly fond of NCFC, and certainly doesn't want to be here as a 4th choice substitute as Onel will likely end up.

I suppose the argument now is if the new manager believes Tzolis is enough of a "weapon" (just to get @Parma Ham's gone mouldy excited) at this level to build the rest of the team to accommodate him and his defensive / tracking lackings.

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Tzolis should be sold - if anyone wants/afford him - and take the cash. Just put it down to another piece of Webber's genius. 

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1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

With loans fees, if we get £5m I think that will balance the books cash wise. So not spin exactly ... just fast and loose as always.

Point I was making is that the agreement looks like it was for 3.5m Euros, which is just £3m.    Only going up to 5m EUR/£4.3m if they got promotion.

So it's actually nearer half of what we were all expecting the deal to be.  My mention of Webber spin was that the likes of the Pinkun hadn't been reporting this lesser figure, and it looks about to come out of the woodwork now.  But they can only go from what they're told of course.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

That's basically what it is, isn't it? A promotion bonus.

I guess it does work out to more-or-less the same thing, but it does seem to have been reported/communicated in a rather odd way. Possibly intentionally so by Webber initially so it would be a 'best case scenario' figure, rather than a small option with a promotion bonus.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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41 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Point I was making is that the agreement looks like it was for 3.5m Euros, which is just £3m.    Only going up to 5m EUR/£4.3m if they got promotion.

So it's actually nearer half of what we were all expecting the deal to be.  My mention of Webber spin was that the likes of the Pinkun hadn't been reporting this lesser figure, and it looks about to come out of the woodwork now.  But they can only go from what they're told of course.

I was basing my thoughts on him being the subject of a bidding round from 1.B clubs, forcing the fee up to 5/6M EUR - much to play for though. 

The Pink'Un boys, like other journalists (especially those covering news about business investment etc.) only ever focus on the largest number (unless they are doing a disparaging article about losses when they will look at the smallest profit / biggest loss) when it comes to reporting on press releases. "Cor, look at the size of that! Ridiculous ain't it?"

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5 hours ago, hogesar said:

On pure footballing ability, Tzolis.

But unfortunately I don't think Tzolis is particularly fond of NCFC, and certainly doesn't want to be here as a 4th choice substitute as Onel will likely end up.

I suppose the argument now is if the new manager believes Tzolis is enough of a "weapon" (just to get @Parma Ham's gone mouldy excited) at this level to build the rest of the team to accommodate him and his defensive / tracking lackings.

I’d be amazed if Tzolis wasn’t cashed in on. We must generate some cash and that requires churn.

You can only sell what people will buy. 

The ‚Äėeasiest‚Äô money (not necessarily profit or value or optimum team building) is via Tzolis and Idah.

Sara would be a ‚Äėposter boy‚Äô sale for ‚Äėthe South American model‚Äô and appears to be the first ‚Äėinvestor-but-not-exactly-third-party-ownership‚Äô Norfolk model.¬†

Rowe would need to be sold nowish if he can’t be persuaded to sign a new deal. 

Others such as Sargent and Gunn are much harder to replace immediately. We don‚Äôt appear to have ‚Äė¬†striker money‚Äô and cheaper goalkeepers often take time - and mistakes - to settle in. Gunn is also a passing goalkeeper.¬†

Kenny - as a competitive-minded midfielder or left-sided centre back - has good squad glue value, so low millions are almost worthless versus that. 

Any money for anyone else would no doubt be welcome.

Parma 

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10 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

It doesn't seem that strange. It is similar to Norwich signing Emi for £1.5m but then having to pay extra to make it £5m after promotion. I would presume it was written into the deal that should Dusseldorf get promoted in the following season or two then they would have had to pay the difference.

Considering Dusseldorf's Sporting Director has admitted that they agreed the deal for Tzolis with Norwich, knowing they wouldn't be able to afford it, I doubt there is much chance of him staying there. I also expect Tzolis wouldn't want to go back now, knowing that there are surely a bunch of Budesliga teams in for him. 

 

I thought it was always going to be 5mil over 4 years but with promotion we had to pay all the unpaid straight away.

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Well I hope we charged them a loan fee and they paid 100% of his wages. Fortuna sound like  right bunch of time wasters.

Not sure this has been good for us or the player if we both end up exactly where we started.

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A loan fee is usually paid, as is a percentage of the players wage. Though as Tzolis was on a PL contract I doubt a 2nd tier club paid a major part of that wage.

After returning early from a loan at FC Twente Tzolis was not seen as a future City player.  So  I would suggest we were grateful to be able to palm him off to Fortuna with the condition you can buy him if you want. We would have known that would involve the extra finance promotion would afford them.

I cannot see how you can label Fortuna 'time wasters', nor that it has not been good for us. We now have a player who last summer was viewed as 'washed up' and worth little. His time at Fortuna has seen hmi transformed - to the point we may well receive far more than what the option to buy clause amounted to.

As to Fortuna then although they blew their chance in th eplay off, it is likely they would not have got that far without Tzolis

Win, win all round I would say

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