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5 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

May be, but even at his best, is he good enough?

Well that's all down to judgement isn't it.  I think he's great, and have always felt since seeing him play at Carrow Road.  I love his touch, and his vision to find out players like Sarge in the past has been top notch.

Also in regards to finances, we've already paid for him and it's only when we sell that we'll know if this 'saga' was good business or not. If we take £5m today we would've made a net loss on him and page closed.

However, I look at 22 years old, 22 goals, 7 assists in a season and already on our books:

If it wasn't for Sainz holding that left position it'd be a no brainer for me. However, it's more complicated not knowing what coach is coming in to this club and what their preferences are.

But on financial and technical levels i'd rather us bring him back personally.  But appreciate for many others they just want the door closing and written off as a bad experience.

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1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

Well that's all down to judgement isn't it.  I think he's great, and have always felt since seeing him play at Carrow Road.  I love his touch, and his vision to find out players like Sarge in the past has been top notch.

Also in regards to finances, we've already paid for him and it's only when we sell that we'll know if this 'saga' was good business or not. If we take £5m today we would've made a net loss on him and page closed.

However, I look at 22 years old, 22 goals, 7 assists in a season and already on our books:

If it wasn't for Sainz holding that left position it'd be a no brainer for me. However, it's more complicated not knowing what coach is coming in to this club and what their preferences are.

But on financial and technical levels i'd rather us bring him back personally.  But appreciate for many others they just want the door closing and written off as a bad experience.

He's better than many other winger options we have with the exception of Sainz and Rowe, with the latter likely to leave. We do need better options and better depth in our team if we are ever gonna progress. 

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On 24/05/2024 at 14:27, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

If Van Hooijdonk was our player and went on loan to Heerenveen, scoring 19 goals in a season, we'd have people clamouring for him to come back and score a shed load for us.

Then we'd play him and he'd look like a Rotherham level striker again with nothing much at all to offer us, because that is what he is. 

And you know this.

And yet when when Tzolis scores 22 in Bundesliga 2 we think he is going to look like a radically different player than the one we've seen looks out of his depth in this league.

Well Van Hooijdonk scored 19 goals in the Eredivise last season and will never be good enough for us, and Tzolis will never be good enough for us either. Neither are quick enough for modern English football. 

In my personal opinion (of which whether you or others think that I'm right or wrong) is just that, my personal opinion....I reiterate and think Tzolis would be more than a valuable asset to us....He has the skills and footballing nous to be an important chunk of vertebrae in the spine of our squad....that's just my personal opinion....

I'd also have Adam Idah back here as well, as Adam's now doing what some of us think he's capable of....I accept that it's unlikely to come to fruition regarding both players I mention come pre-season....or when August arrives and it again all kicks off....It also depends on who the next coach/manager is and what he/she alongside Knapper think what's best for us footballing wise to be competitive and successful....

 

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The second leg of the playoffs is on Sky tonight so a chance to see him in action.Hopefully he would rather play in the Championship and under a new regime at Norwich he might just be a good addition to our squad.Certainly better than Barnes and a good replacement for a ,hopefully,departing Rowe.

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On 26/05/2024 at 10:06, Mello Yello said:

In my personal opinion (of which whether you or others think that I'm right or wrong) is just that, my personal opinion....I reiterate and think Tzolis would be more than a valuable asset to us....He has the skills and footballing nous to be an important chunk of vertebrae in the spine of our squad....that's just my personal opinion....

I'd also have Adam Idah back here as well, as Adam's now doing what some of us think he's capable of....I accept that it's unlikely to come to fruition regarding both players I mention come pre-season....or when August arrives and it again all kicks off....It also depends on who the next coach/manager is and what he/she alongside Knapper think what's best for us footballing wise to be competitive and successful....

 

The biggest concern I have re Idah is that he's still not doing enough, somehow, to be 1st choice striker/one of the first names in the starting line up. How many games did he start in Scotland?

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On 26/05/2024 at 11:06, Mello Yello said:

I reiterate and think Tzolis would be more than a valuable asset to us....He has the skills and footballing nous to be an important chunk of vertebrae in the spine of our squad.

 

 

Yes. It may be moot if a Bundesliga club comes in for Tzolis, but I wonder if for us he could be converted into a striker. Especially since it seems Idah is leaving.

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6 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Did Tzolis' team secure promotion in the end? 

They won 3-0 away in the first leg of the promotion playoff, so the second leg (which is tonight) should be a formality.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes. It may be moot if a Bundesliga club comes in for Tzolis, but I wonder if for us he could be converted into a striker. Especially since it seems Idah is leaving.

I dont think Tzolis could play striker - or anywhere centrally, in England at least, to be honest. His work rate isn't good, he is very poor at playing with his back to goal and actually, his first touch isn't fantastic and he isn't blessed with pace either. 

He has only performed in poorer leagues when on the left hand side cutting inside and being given space. He has a decent read of the game for playing balls into others but only in a situation where he can see the game in front of him so again, as a striker that's a big no.

Edited by hogesar

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35 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I dont think Tzolis could play striker - or anywhere centrally, in England at least, to be honest. His work rate isn't good, he is very poor at playing with his back to goal and actually, his first touch isn't fantastic and he isn't blessed with pace either. 

He has only performed in poorer leagues when on the left hand side cutting inside and being given space. He has a decent read of the game for playing balls into others but only in a situation where he can see the game in front of him so again, as a striker that's a big no.

That’s an impressive list of all the things he can’t do. 22 goals this season and probably one of the first players on the team sheet, unlike Idah at Celtic. 

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3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

That’s an impressive list of all the things he can’t do. 22 goals this season and probably one of the first players on the team sheet, unlike Idah at Celtic. 

Yeah, and for those 22 goals he's not been playing as a striker.

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31 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I dont think Tzolis could play striker - or anywhere centrally, in England at least, to be honest. His work rate isn't good, he is very poor at playing with his back to goal and actually, his first touch isn't fantastic and he isn't blessed with pace either. 

He has only performed in poorer leagues when on the left hand side cutting inside and being given space. He has a decent read of the game for playing balls into others but only in a situation where he can see the game in front of him so again, as a striker that's a big no.

Do you mean like the second goal against Bochum, when he played the ball into the perfect place at the perfect pace for his colleague to score a fairly easy goal? That kind of 'decent'? You are desperate to trash this guy.

I agree with you that he can't play with his back to the goal and I agree with you that he isn't blessed with pace. But you are talking as if we are suggesting that he become a traditional number 9, and I don't think any of us are saying that. We're saying more left winger with elements of fox in the box as he moves inside because a) he reads the game well and is very good at being in the right place at the right time, b) he is generally very efficient at putting away chances.

I suggest you look at those three goals against Bochum and the key part he played in all three. And his hat trick in the game before that against Magdeburg. Of course, if you are correct that German football at the lower first league/higher second league level is so much 'poorer' than English football at that level, he couldn't do it here. Bochum finished approximately where Luton finished. Are they really so much worse than Luton? 

 

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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah, and for those 22 goals he's not been playing as a striker.

Even more impressive then. 

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On 24/05/2024 at 14:03, BroadstairsR said:

May be, but even at his best, is he good enough?

That is not the question, is he good enough - and the same goes for Idah. That is also not how club is , or should be thinking. The first question is what does the team need, what is the definition of good, or rather good enough. Every player we have comes with limitations, indeed most club legends were flawed in some way. Otherwise we cannot afford them, ot they don't stay. Both Idah and Tzolis are good players, with excellent attributes, capable of succeeding in the Chumps. Both have limitations as well, Tzolis will not press and Idah is not a target man.

Do we want a skillful goal scoring wide player who doesn't defend (and we did with Huckerby)? Do we want a quick goal scoring striker who can run in behind but we cannot successfuly hit with long balls from the back (like we did with Pukki). Or do we want something else (like Wagner went with Springett, PP, Hwang, SVH), and if so what?

 

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3 minutes ago, BigFish said:

That is not the question, is he good enough - and the same goes for Idah. That is also not how club is , or should be thinking. The first question is what does the team need, what is the definition of good, or rather good enough. Every player we have comes with limitations, indeed most club legends were flawed in some way. Otherwise we cannot afford them, ot they don't stay. Both Idah and Tzolis are good players, with excellent attributes, capable of succeeding in the Chumps. Both have limitations as well, Tzolis will not press and Idah is not a target man.

Do we want a skillful goal scoring wide player who doesn't defend (and we did with Huckerby)? Do we want a quick goal scoring striker who can run in behind but we cannot successfuly hit with long balls from the back (like we did with Pukki). Or do we want something else (like Wagner went with Springett, PP, Hwang, SVH), and if so what?

 

Yes, but is he good enough? 

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4 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Yes, but is he good enough? 

Huckerby was good enough.

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

They won 3-0 away in the first leg of the promotion playoff, so the second leg (which is tonight) should be a formality.

Did you tell Doncaster that?

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I dont think Tzolis could play striker - or anywhere centrally, in England at least, to be honest. His work rate isn't good, he is very poor at playing with his back to goal and actually, his first touch isn't fantastic and he isn't blessed with pace either. 

He has only performed in poorer leagues when on the left hand side cutting inside and being given space. He has a decent read of the game for playing balls into others but only in a situation where he can see the game in front of him so again, as a striker that's a big no.

But a fair bit of that applies to Idah!

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14 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Huckerby was good enough.

Huckerby was world class at what he did. I don't think that applies to any of Idah or Tzolis' attributes.

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10 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Huckerby was world class at what he did. I don't think that applies to any of Idah or Tzolis' attributes.

Ah, the canary coloured spectacles rather proves my point. The is no definition of world class that Huckerby could meet. You could get away with very good, or Norwich class, good Champs player, EPL squad player but not World class, or even International class unless you count 1 cap at England B level. That is not to demean DH, it is to add perpective. Both Tzolis and Idah are good "enough" but mat not be what the new coach wants or needs.

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46 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Yes, but is he good enough? 

Yes

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50 minutes ago, LaUnionCanary said:

Did you tell Doncaster that?

No, but I used the words 'should be', which implies a small element of doubt. Besides, Doncaster's lead was only two goals.

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I cannot see Tzolis wanting to come back, to what might be thought will only be a mid table Championship club, wherto be in the top tier in Germany, one way or another.

Best take the money and run. If Idah stays over the border then we should be looking at £10m-12m at least for the pair.

What did Sainz cost? How many Saras can that amount buy ?

The world is not so short of footballers that either is all we can have.

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4 hours ago, chicken said:

The biggest concern I have re Idah is that he's still not doing enough, somehow, to be 1st choice striker/one of the first names in the starting line up. How many games did he start in Scotland?

No shame in playing second fiddle to Kyogo, he's a quality player.

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Posted (edited)

I’ve been reluctant to read the Tzolis threads and honestly had no real idea to his progress this season. I’d written him off after seeing him play away to Stoke last season, where he just looked miles off it. 

So I’m genuinely shocked to see that highlights real above. That’s quite an incredible turnaround from him and clearly one the club didn’t foresee either. Confidence eh?

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto

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Tzolis just fluffed a great chance -  heavy touch when through

Looks like penalties

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8 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

They won 3-0 away in the first leg of the promotion playoff, so the second leg (which is tonight) should be a formality.

Oh dear 😂

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