Centre backs

[Mason 47 2,040]

14 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

This was a lot of Ben Gibson's problem in that he would stand over the ball too long trying to do something clever and would put himself in trouble.  Just get people moving off the ball and don't stall, otherwise it won't work whatever.

Agree with this, I think there was a lack of confidence in the passing options but also a lack of confidence in himself. Really feel belief was massive for Gibson

I thought Leeds very specifically stood off Gibson (to a lesser extent Duffy too) in the first leg and went man-to-man marking meaning that they would wander further and further into midfield before losing the ball.

[Harry53 229]

18 hours ago, RobJames said:

With Jonathan Tomkinson, Jaden Warner, Brad Hills, Emmanuel Adegboyega and fullback (?) Louis Shipley back with us, are we covered with only Hanlley and Duffy using McLean and Lungi as cover ? Not retaining Batth and Gibson suggests one ot two of the above will be stepping up.

At the moment Hanley is an unknown quantity, given the injury, and Duffy is not getting any younger. Could we go into the season with just the one recogonised senior CB ?  

However, no more aged tetainers as per last season. Both Hanley and Duffy are out of contract in 2025 so another year out on loan for some of the above till then. Just need to find a LB or two.

 

Duffy has gone

[Google Bot 4,010]

2 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Agree with this, I think there was a lack of confidence in the passing options but also a lack of confidence in himself. Really feel belief was massive for Gibson

Carrying the label of being our best ball playing CB may have weighed on him too, as he would rarely take the easy option and lose time in trying to spot something better. 

I guess my point is that It's better to keep the ball moving and create space that way - even if you're taking the easy option each time.  If you let the ball do the work then the opposition can decide if they want to tire themselves by chasing it down.

[BigFish 2,335]

4 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

Duffy has gone

Firstly, I think you are mistaken here @Harry53, he has two years to run on his contract.

 

Secondly if the José Córdoba rumour is correct we are looking to add numbers here.

 

[Big Vince 432]

18 hours ago, daly said:

You’ve got to rape or murder someone to guarantee a prison sentence 

He'll walk with a fine and a slap on the wrist by todays liberal magistrates

When Putin takes all of Europe things will change as far as liberalism goes.

[shefcanary 3,096]

23 hours ago, king canary said:

Feels unlikely unless he gets sent to prison for it.

BBC reporting today that the police have been asked not to make any arrests unless they cannot avoid it, no "dawn raid on drug gangs" type of mass arrests, as the prison system is bursting at the seams. This after revelations last week that the courts were actively being asked to slow trials down! 

No way will Duffy go to prison.

As for the question posed by the OP, in the end it comes down to money and what we can afford to spend on updating the players already here. Across the U21's and senior squad, we have 2 RB's, 2 LB's (if NNC is right about Shipley being a LB) and no less than 8 RCB's but no LCB, although we know its Kenny's best position 😉. Sure, there is a lot of inexperience in terms of Championship games, but if they are good enough, they're old enough etc. If we are to spend any cash from selling players, we have to it on good replacements for those sold or that damned elusive CDM!

[Google Bot 4,010]

Hanley been named in the provisional squad for euros. 

[daly 556]

9 hours ago, chicken said:

The prisons are reaching the point of having no space again, not sure you can suggest the judges are liberal...

Were  the judges and magistrates not liberal they would they would pass a sentence that reflects on the crime 

[Barham Blitz 911]

8 hours ago, Google Bot said:

All professional footballers must have the ability of basic control and passing ability at the level they're playing or they shouldn't even be a part of the squad, let alone getting paid 10's of thousands a week and countless hours of free coaching.

People become too focused on the player in possession, but in truth it's the players off the ball that make the difference.  If you want a ball playing backline then as a coach you have to make sure that there's targets that are easy to play to.

This was a lot of Ben Gibson's problem in that he would stand over the ball too long trying to do something clever and would put himself in trouble.  Just get people moving off the ball and don't stall, otherwise it won't work whatever.

That was part of the problem of Wagnerball though wasn't it - the whole purpose was to invite the press in order to play over it, but the players inviting the press were those least capable of dealing with that pressure.  There were precious few options to play through midfield - the onus was very much on drawing the opposition forward line / midfield up the pitch and playing over it.

It was especially evident in that second leg of the playoff semi where there would be some passing around the back and dwelling on the ball to draw players in before Angus or Gibson hoofed the ball largely randomly upfield (only for it to come straight back again.)

Now personally I would absolutely agree that there should be options for shorter, quicker and more straightforward passes out from the back which you would indeed generate through effective movement and snappier passing - but it wasn't ever Wagner's intention for that to be the approach (at least as far as i can see.)

It's one of the reasons Kenny was a relative revelation at CB in that system - at least he doesn't look like a deer in headlights in possession and can pick out a longer pass and even a teammate occasionally.  The rest of them, not so much.

 

Edited May 22, 2024 by Barham Blitz

[chicken 3,142]

38 minutes ago, daly said:

Were  the judges and magistrates not liberal they would they would pass a sentence that reflects on the crime 

There is a scale of sentence they can pass for a crime with a ceiling. Those scales are not set by the judges. And in many cases, have been fixed in place for decades.

Outside of that, currently, owing to lack of prison space, they are having to hand out morr generous sentencing on crimes that are considered 'lesser'.

[RobJames 922]

If Jose Cordoba signs then where does that leave those CB's returning from loan ? Jose, Duffy and Hanley would suggest one place available - assuming no other CB is signed.

The thought  must be, far better they are out on loan playing week in week out than sat wrming the bench....week in week out

If Jose is signed it sends a message of intent. We are not looking to make up the numbers next season. However the talk is that he is destined for 'great things' and will see City as a way in to the PL. Fine, we get him for a season or two, with a future move covering the cost of his time here, and more to spare.

It also points to the club having iden, tified the players needed, irrespective of who the coach is . Throwup will be aware of this and comfortable with it.

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/24351720.norwich-city-transfer-news-rangers-tipped-cordoba-deal/

[Big Vince 432]

On 22/05/2024 at 17:25, daly said:

Were  the judges and magistrates not liberal they would they would pass a sentence that reflects on the crime 

All judges should be right-wing then the sentence would reflect the crime. Moreover, the national debt would go into steep decline if possession of illegal drugs carried a mandatory death sentence. The current financial burden on the NHS, and the sheer scale of working age people out of work due to drug related illness, grows more intolerable by the day.

[chicken 3,142]

2 hours ago, RobJames said:

If Jose Cordoba signs then where does that leave those CB's returning from loan ? Jose, Duffy and Hanley would suggest one place available - assuming no other CB is signed.

The thought  must be, far better they are out on loan playing week in week out than sat wrming the bench....week in week out

If Jose is signed it sends a message of intent. We are not looking to make up the numbers next season. However the talk is that he is destined for 'great things' and will see City as a way in to the PL. Fine, we get him for a season or two, with a future move covering the cost of his time here, and more to spare.

It also points to the club having iden, tified the players needed, irrespective of who the coach is . Throwup will be aware of this and comfortable with it.

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/24351720.norwich-city-transfer-news-rangers-tipped-cordoba-deal/

Maybe five CB's if one can deputise at full back as well? That's not unusual.

Might also be that they loan one out until Jan, bring them back and loan the other out until the end of the season.

[Indy 3,500]

27 minutes ago, chicken said:

Maybe five CB's if one can deputise at full back as well? That's not unusual.

Might also be that they loan one out until Jan, bring them back and loan the other out until the end of the season.

Hopefully means we might try and offload Duffy! 

[canarycop 232]

15 minutes ago, Indy said:

Hopefully means we might try and offload Duffy! 

I really hope so. Doesn't suit us at all but would probs do a job at somewhere like Plymouth or Oxford

[Indy 3,500]

3 minutes ago, canarycop said:

I really hope so. Doesn't suit us at all but would probs do a job at somewhere like Plymouth or Oxford

Behave! Oxford have two outstanding CB’s with a very good youngster in the wings! No chance of Duffy getting in! 

Edited May 29, 2024 by Indy

[Mason 47 2,040]

53 minutes ago, chicken said:

Maybe five CB's if one can deputise at full back as well? That's not unusual.

Might also be that they loan one out until Jan, bring them back and loan the other out until the end of the season.

Perhaps we have designs on a 3 CB formation. Stacey is certainly easy to cast in the role of wingback.

[Yobocop 1,481]

On 21/05/2024 at 15:45, TheGunnShow said:

Said before, and will say it again, I'm perfectly happy with McLean being the left-footed centre-half in Gibson's place. It should free up a midfield spot for Gibbs to develop, it's one less senior pro for our youngsters to get past, and it gives us a ball-player at the heart of defence. We often struggle when we don't have that and our game slows down as a result.

Hills got POTS at Accrington, Adeboyega did well at Walsall. I just hope the new manager gives them some time in pre-season to show what they've got and then keep/loan out from there. It worked for Omo before, and it sorta worked for Kellen Fisher as well. Be interesting to see if Montoia makes the stop up.

In the old world of Wagner ball I would agree but thorup may want to go differently to that 

[Yobocop 1,481]

Hanley needs a preseason which he didn’t have last year, if he can come through that unscathed we should see him back 

Duffy who knows but I suspect he’ll be back so they’ll be first choice with Tomkinson and Warner as back up 

Warner is the real deal and will be first choice in a few years 

[Mason 47 2,040]

3 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Hanley needs a preseason which he didn’t have last year, if he can come through that unscathed we should see him back 

Duffy who knows but I suspect he’ll be back so they’ll be first choice with Tomkinson and Warner as back up 

Warner is the real deal and will be first choice in a few years 

I've often noticed you saying this about Warner, YC. Can I ask what it is that makes you so enthusiastic about him in particular?

[RobJames 922]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Hopefully means we might try and offload Duffy! 

BOGGOFF

Sign Duffy, get Barnes for free

I can't think either are going to improve, and I doubt they will be the sort of players Throwup will be seeing as part of the first choice.

[Danke bitte 1,200]

14 minutes ago, RobJames said:

BOGGOFF

Sign Duffy, get Barnes for free

I can't think either are going to improve, and I doubt they will be the sort of players Throwup will be seeing as part of the first choice.

The CB position has been a source of contention for so many seasons. It would be nice to actually have some solid options beyond Hanley who is not the full time answer. 

[RobJames 922]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

Maybe five CB's if one can deputise at full back as well? That's not unusual.

Might also be that they loan one out until Jan, bring them back and loan the other out until the end of the season.

Jose is left footed. Not sure about the returning loanees.

The thought must be they are being lined up for the following season, when both Duffy and Hanley are out of contract.

The question is whether they are best served by being sat on the bench, or out on another loan. A comment above states that Warner is looking good. Maybe he will stay and, like Omo, get his chance and keep it.

However the first team is NOT a place to develop. You are picked when you are ready. Albeit however good a player is at Colney the prove is on the pitch in a league match. 'Needs must' put Gibbs and Fisher in the squad. I suggest the latter needs a loan, as moving from non league to the Championship is a big leap.

I don't think it is too great a leap to move to RB/LB from a central place in defence. Likewise, I think Godfrey started there, or even right midfield. R Martin swapped as well, so maybe one of these CBs could cover for Stacey.

Plenty of options, whereas we only have Begga Hall at LB. There must be someone special lined up as we let both Gino and McCallum go. Whoever it is (them?) it won't be another aged stop gap.

[Barham Blitz 911]

27 minutes ago, RobJames said:

BOGGOFF

Sign Duffy, get Barnes for free

The jury is out as to whether this would be an incentive or a discouragement to any would be suitors for either of them mind ...

[king canary 8,991]

We absolutely should be looking to move on from Hanley. He wasn't that good pre this big injury, he looked woeful when he was called on last season.

I know people aren't Duffy fans but he's slightly more comfortable on the ball than Hanley now. I wouldn't be shocked if the first choice central defenders are Cordoba and Duffy with Hills or Warner as first back up. 

If someone wants to take Hanley off our hands, just paying a percentage of his wages we should do it- need to make sure we're not blocking younger players progression routes 

[Yobocop 1,481]

1 hour ago, Mason 47 said:

I've often noticed you saying this about Warner, YC. Can I ask what it is that makes you so enthusiastic about him in particular?

I’m an expert in picking out youth players 😉 

no seriously, when I’ve seen him play looks quality, you can tell the star quality is there 

[65Vintage 7]

Duffy has given the ball away so many times, in dangerous situations this season, and being another year older I can't see him improving. Hanley may have more pace than Duffy even after his injury - although that remains to be seen. It will be interesting to see how the whole defence, and defensive set up changes for next season as it feels like a long while since we have had a really strong defence, and a central defensive partnership.

[Indy 3,500]

1 hour ago, RobJames said:

BOGGOFF

Sign Duffy, get Barnes for free

I can't think either are going to improve, and I doubt they will be the sort of players Throwup will be seeing as part of the first choice.

Personally I’d try my hardest to get both off the wages, if we can get them gone to other teams to pick up the wages great! Unfortunately I think they’re just not that attractive so will probably be here next season!

But yes we need to structure a core in our team, a young good CB , Sara & Sargent is a great start, experience from McLean, Hanley, Stacey & Gunn and push on the youth products. It’s going to be a time for rebuilding and moving forwards for me.

[daly 556]

On 21/05/2024 at 15:56, Dr Greenthumb said:

Is there a chance Duffy will be let go by the club or is it a slap on the wrist?

Hopefully 

[RobJames 922]

"I presume he will become popularly referred to as the "Hoff". "

50 minutes ago, Indy said:

Personally I’d try my hardest to get both off the wages,

That was my idea. Take one and we'll throw in the other.

However the money we would get from another club paying part of their final years contact may not warrant not having one or both as back up. If Jose and one of the loanees are seen as the better back two it will still require if cover, If those two are not first choice then at least one will be needed.

I suspect Knapper has been brought in to fit the club's approach going forward, rather than it being him as the instigator. In that light he will implement the previously agreed club strategy with Dane operating at the tactical level.

As to elsewhere it depends on who gets an irresistible offer. Anything from the PL will likely see them depart. Despite idiot comments by some I cannot see any of our lot saying "me play in the PL, double or even treble my wages.... nah, I'll stay here"

As the suggested signing of Jose shows, players have been targeted long before Wagner's departure and most likely even before Knappers arrival. It is also likely that some may be dependent upon money coming in from departures, Sara, Rowe, or Sainz, but given any of those transfers are 'in the lap of the gods' they will be seen as a bonus rather than an expectation.

However good the coaching with the youths is at Colney, it is mainly dependant upon finding the right ones. There have been a succession of 'start talent'  from lower league clubs who have not made the grade. Maybe it is in the nature of the beast, You have to kiss so many frogs etc. What is the cost of progressing Rowe and Cantwell compared to taking in a player at 17 and having him in the first team a few years later ?

Despite the work of the youth set up  there as only one player Rowe who came through the system last season. I suspect that was why both Knapper and the Danes have been appointed. More need to make the grade.