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RobJames

Centre backs

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With Jonathan Tomkinson, Jaden Warner, Brad Hills, Emmanuel Adegboyega and fullback (?) Louis Shipley back with us, are we covered with only Hanlley and Duffy using McLean and Lungi as cover ? Not retaining Batth and Gibson suggests one ot two of the above will be stepping up.

At the moment Hanley is an unknown quantity, given the injury, and Duffy is not getting any younger. Could we go into the season with just the one recogonised senior CB ?  

However, no more aged tetainers as per last season. Both Hanley and Duffy are out of contract in 2025 so another year out on loan for some of the above till then. Just need to find a LB or two.

 

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Said before, and will say it again, I'm perfectly happy with McLean being the left-footed centre-half in Gibson's place. It should free up a midfield spot for Gibbs to develop, it's one less senior pro for our youngsters to get past, and it gives us a ball-player at the heart of defence. We often struggle when we don't have that and our game slows down as a result.

Hills got POTS at Accrington, Adeboyega did well at Walsall. I just hope the new manager gives them some time in pre-season to show what they've got and then keep/loan out from there. It worked for Omo before, and it sorta worked for Kellen Fisher as well. Be interesting to see if Montoia makes the stop up.

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I suppose much will depend on how many of the youngsters coming back on loan perform during pre season before a decision is made. The whole stop gap Sorenson at Centreback etc should not happen again. We need to prepare accordingly but you would hope a couple of the loanees should be in a position to be in the squad for next season or its more loan moves / or moving them on.

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This is the challenge for the rebuild. Until the new manager is installed, how do we plan? Someone said elsewhere; what if the new guy wants to play a back 3? Still early days but an interesting challenge for Knapper.

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Just now, In my blood said:

This is the challenge for the rebuild. Until the new manager is installed, how do we plan? Someone said elsewhere; what if the new guy wants to play a back 3? Still early days but an interesting challenge for Knapper.

Very true, but that wont stop fans speculating about players in the short term. But you are right that until a manager is installed with his preferred tactics etc, it will be hard to predict.

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13 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Is there a chance Duffy will be let go by the club or is it a slap on the wrist?

Feels unlikely unless he gets sent to prison for it.

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Feels unlikely unless he gets sent to prison for it.

You’ve got to rape or murder someone to guarantee a prison sentence 

He'll walk with a fine and a slap on the wrist by todays liberal magistrates

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We certainly need at least one new centre back, probably two.

I'm worried that Hanley will struggle to reach his previous level after his injury, and I don't particularly rate Duffy, before factoring in that both of them are unlikely to fit into the style of play that Knapper will expect from the new head coach. The big problem with the latter is that nobody will be prepared to match the wages he's on here, so we're likely stuck with him, unless something can be agreed.

I'm not sure which of the four youngsters will be deemed ready, but obviously the new manager will take a look in preseason. Hopefully at least one of them will be deemed ready.

We do seem to be in a situation however where our contracted centre backs are all either 32+ with their best days behind them, or with no experience at Championship level (the four youngsters have a total of three Championship appearances between them). We need one, probably two, centre backs either at their peak or just about to hit it (mid-to-late twenties) in order to give us balance.

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Posted (edited)

Im inclined to think we sell Rowe and try and retain Sargeant/Sara, albeit I imagine Rowe and Sargeant will go which should accumulate circa £30m, in which the new manager hopefully has to reinvest, alongside some hopefully new cash from the new owners. Hopefully we use this money to invest in some defenders etc

Edited by jaberry2

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The big issue is a lack of any left sided CB's. The only real contender right now is Kenny but I'm not sure that's something the club will be counting on. If they're willing to say next season will be a step back then I think they'd prefer a young option. Hanley and Duffy aren't going to be easy to move on but it feels like we need to dump one to open up room for the youngsters. 

With those 4 players it seems Hills is in pole position right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tomkinson leave, he's the oldest of the 4 and has probably been overtaken by others at this point. His contract is up at the end of next year so he'd probably like to find a permanent home if it's not happening here. That would leave Warner and Adegboyega, maybe one stays and the other goes on loan, if we can't get rid of Hanley and Duffy then you probably send both out on loan as to not let their progress stall.

It's a tricky proposition that's for sure.

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37 minutes ago, king canary said:

Feels unlikely unless he gets sent to prison for it.

He almost certainly won't get sent to prison. I had a friend who went to trial a few years ago and he had a bit of a meltdown thinking he was going to prison. His lawyer basically told him he had nothing to worry about as the chances were virtually zero as even if found guilty he wouldn't be given more than 12 months for the offence, and as he had a spotless record it would automatically be suspended and there was no way he would see the inside of a cell.

I was surprised, as it definitely hasn't always been that way. I remember both Tony Adams and Duncan Ferguson actually doing jail time for just a few weeks, and I'm assuming they had clean records. But his lawyer basically said in absolute terms that he would not be going to prison. He only got community service in the end anyway so he never had to test the advice.

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The thought must be that back at Colney gives the coaching staff a chance to work with these players, unlike being on loan at lower league clubs where the coaching staff will be at a minimum. It is at Colney where the work is done, and in the line up when it is deemed they are ready, not before.

The club will be well aware of how things are, and it suggrests confidence in the development of some of the above that neither Bahtt nor Gibson were retained. We've had Omo and Rowe come from almost nowhere to stake a first team place, so it is not unlikely that Warner, Tomkinson or even Hills couldn't do the same.

Whoever gets the LB spot will need to be better than McCallum. Is the intention to have Lungi as cover, and failing that McLean as third choice ?

We have £30m less this season so it will be a case of cutting our cloth....... However I doubt Knapper would have joined us were we anywhere near the dire as claimed by some on here.

 

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48 minutes ago, repman said:

The big issue is a lack of any left sided CB's. The only real contender right now is Kenny but I'm not sure that's something the club will be counting on. If they're willing to say next season will be a step back then I think they'd prefer a young option. Hanley and Duffy aren't going to be easy to move on but it feels like we need to dump one to open up room for the youngsters. 

With those 4 players it seems Hills is in pole position right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tomkinson leave, he's the oldest of the 4 and has probably been overtaken by others at this point. His contract is up at the end of next year so he'd probably like to find a permanent home if it's not happening here. That would leave Warner and Adegboyega, maybe one stays and the other goes on loan, if we can't get rid of Hanley and Duffy then you probably send both out on loan as to not let their progress stall.

It's a tricky proposition that's for sure.

Based on the names linked so far I think we can safely say our new head coach will want central defenders who are comfortable on the ball, which suggests both Hanley and Duffy might be in trouble, while McLean might actually fit the profile for a central defender.

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I think at this stage it'll be Hanley, Duffy, Youngster and a new signing. Either of the older two leaving would probably trigger another purchase.

Other factors might come into play as well- maybe we will go with 3 at the back. McLean on the left of a trio? Sounds alright in theory.

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Feels unlikely unless he gets sent to prison for it.

I thought that, best get himself a lift sorted for training 

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What I wouldn’t give for a no nonsense Malky type who can just clear the lines.

I know it’s not fashionable to do that at the min but all this playing around at the back still worries me. Works fine if you’re Man City and can buy any defender you want, always strikes me as an accident waiting to happen when you’re trying to recreate it with much worse players in the 2nd tier 

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3 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

I thought that, best get himself a lift sorted for training 

 

IMG_7888.jpeg

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Based on his loan spell Hills must be in pole position to step up. However, when I have watched the U21s I was very impressed with Adegboyega who to me looked a better prospect than Warner. Have always felt Tomkinson needed to find a mean streak to be effective, seems a bit too nice on the pitch. Also, have high hopes for Renicke who is very good on the ball.

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20 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

What I wouldn’t give for a no nonsense Malky type who can just clear the lines.

I know it’s not fashionable to do that at the min but all this playing around at the back still worries me. Works fine if you’re Man City and can buy any defender you want, always strikes me as an accident waiting to happen when you’re trying to recreate it with much worse players in the 2nd tier 

We've got two of them in Duffy and Hanley.  Unfortunately for all concerned they've been asked to impersonate Bobby Moore instead of Jack Charlton.

It would be nice if we could actually sign players to fit the system.  Or fit the system to the players we have.  Watching Duffy or Hanley try and play out from the back is the footballing equivalent of watching one of those Final Destination films where you know something calamitous is inexorably edging closer - you're not sure what or when or who - but you know it's inevitable.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Barham Blitz said:

We've got two of them in Duffy and Hanley.  Unfortunately for all concerned they've been asked to impersonate Bobby Moore instead of Jack Charlton.

It would be nice if we could actually sign players to fit the system.  Or fit the system to the players we have.  Watching Duffy or Hanley try and play out from the back is the footballing equivalent of watching one of those Final Destination films where you know something calamitous is inexorably edging closer - you're not sure what or when or who - but you know it's inevitable.

Watching those two trying to play out from the back is like watching a rhino in a tutu trying to perform Swan Lake.

EDIT: what the heck was in those Yorkshire Tea teabags???

Edited by TheGunnShow
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3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Watching those two trying to play out from the back is like watching a rhino in a tutu trying to perform Swan Lake.

I mean, I'd watch that.

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Just now, Robert N. LiM said:

I mean, I'd watch that.

if the Portsmouth Sinfonia were providing the instrumentals, so would I!

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

if the Portsmouth Sinfonia were providing the instrumentals, so would I!

Easily my favourite Sinfonia. They just never stop playing, even when 0-6 down after the first movement 

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Just now, Robert N. LiM said:

Easily my favourite Sinfonia. They just never stop playing, even when 0-6 down after the first movement 

Their version of the 1812 Overture may be the funniest musical rendition ever performed. I mean, they even found someone who could play the cannon badly.

Sure, I suppose the Battle of Moscow was fought with the Russians and the French absolutely stoned up the wazoo, so never could it have been more authentically - and horrifically - portrayed.

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4 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Easily my favourite Sinfonia. They just never stop playing, even when 0-6 down after the first movement 

Ah, here's the musical equivalent of Duffy passing it out from the back. I like to call this one Elephant Rape in E-Minor.
 

 

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15 hours ago, daly said:

You’ve got to rape or murder someone to guarantee a prison sentence 

He'll walk with a fine and a slap on the wrist by todays liberal magistrates

The prisons are reaching the point of having no space again, not sure you can suggest the judges are liberal...

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9 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Watching those two trying to play out from the back is like watching a rhino in a tutu trying to perform Swan Lake.

EDIT: what the heck was in those Yorkshire Tea teabags???

Close enough I guess...

 

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10 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Ah, here's the musical equivalent of Duffy passing it out from the back. I like to call this one Elephant Rape in E-Minor.
 

 

what in the alien abduction was that........ I feel  like I've been beaten around the head by a newly discovered tool, and my ears are bleeding!

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12 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I know it’s not fashionable to do that at the min but all this playing around at the back still worries me.

All professional footballers must have the ability of basic control and passing ability at the level they're playing or they shouldn't even be a part of the squad, let alone getting paid 10's of thousands a week and countless hours of free coaching.

People become too focused on the player in possession, but in truth it's the players off the ball that make the difference.  If you want a ball playing backline then as a coach you have to make sure that there's targets that are easy to play to.

This was a lot of Ben Gibson's problem in that he would stand over the ball too long trying to do something clever and would put himself in trouble.  Just get people moving off the ball and don't stall, otherwise it won't work whatever.

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