king canary 8,425 Posted July 15 1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said: Actually think Rice encapsulates all our issues. He's definitely one of those players people would include when they say "we have world-class performers playing brilliantly for their clubs", but in reality he is a deeply limited player, one of the energetic runaround merchants we have always overrated, who has limited awareness and passing ability. Think it says it all that we had to scrabble around to fill that place next to him, starting with Trent, playing a kind of golden retriever in Connor Gallagher, before finally alighting on Mainoo, who does look an outstanding prospect, full of that awareness and passing ability, but who, understandably at 19 or whatever he is, lacks the experience to challenge the very best. Not sure he touched the ball in the first 20 minutes of the final. People talk very hopefully of Wharton but he's even younger, isn't he? It would be great if we had an actual footballing midfielder or two in the England team rather than just athletes, but to me it's difficult to argue that we should be playing teenagers in these crucial positions and also arguing that reaching a final is somehow an underachievement. I've largely agreed with you this tournament but I'm a bit baffled by this. Rice is not a deeply limited runaround merchant. He's generally very good on the ball. He had a 90%+ pass success rate last season, had the most accurate short passing of any Premier League central midfielder last season and the 5th most accurate long balls. He grabbed 10 assists, averaged the 8th most key passes per game of any central midfielder (despite being a deep lying player rather than a number 10) and in general looks very comfortable as a key central cog in a team that loves keeping possession more than most. Mainoo on the other hand...is significantly worse at passing by all measures. Yes he's young and he's a very good prospect but I can't understand where the idea he's full of passing ability while Rice can't pick a forward pass comes from. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 5,775 Posted July 15 1 minute ago, king canary said: Mainoo on the other hand...is significantly worse at passing by all measures. Yes he's young and he's a very good prospect but I can't understand where the idea he's full of passing ability while Rice can't pick a forward pass comes from. Watching them both in this tournament. I don't watch the PL (except for August to February when we're in it), so totally happy to accept that Rice is much better than he has looked over the last month. Perhaps I'm wrong, it has been known. But Mainoo struck me as a far better 'ticking over' midfielder, though obviously far, far from the finished article, whereas all my memories of Rice are of him giving the ball away or getting caught in possession. Totally possible I drew too many conclusions from a limited sample (or unwittingly gave ammunition to the 'why is Southgate ruining these great players?' crowd 😉 ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 5,775 Posted July 15 13 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: how Foden is more able to shine in a Manchester City shirt as opposed to an England one in this tournament with this collection of players around him. See also Bellingham with Kroos behind him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 7,128 Posted July 15 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said: See also Bellingham with Kroos behind him... And/or Tchouameni or Camavinga. Edited July 15 by TheGunnShow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 6,109 Posted July 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, ZLF said: Southgate moved us forward post Iceland by adopting a defensive approach due to squad limiitations; staying tight and focusing on set pieces for goals as the attackers were not good enough. As our talented youngsters came through he couldn't or wouldn't amend what for him had been a winning formula. Agree with this. The times where we looked the best were when we were chasing because we had to. The talent came through ...not by design but by default! We had to do something. Our attacking spirit arrived. Southgate obviously has settled the team, brought a togetherness. But all too much caution. And ... I've become tired of hearing from him pre and post match. He could probably make a great French philosopher.in another life... musing on all kinds of things appearing to go somewhere existential and then ultimately back to the beginning. And so it has been with his teams, selections, tactics. I've begun to agree with Roy Keane. Paraphrasing him ..."Just go out there and win a game. Don't be bothering with 'narratives' and making history" Edited July 15 by sonyc 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,798 Posted July 15 6 hours ago, The Raptor said: Only 696 days to the world cup! Bring it on All set to be the ****test World Cup on record. 48 countries will be there but only 16 from Europe so there will be some right dross from around the globe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baldy09 181 Posted July 15 20 hours ago, Gordon Bennett said: Lol LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,390 Posted July 15 Hope I'm wrong or that we get new / developed players over the next couple years but my feeling is we are going to find out that Southgate wasn't the problem - our squad is just poorly balanced and doesn't have a back 5 conducive to winning international tournaments. It would be interesting however to timetravel back and see how all games pan out if Toney starts ahead of Kane.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wr4sb 52 Posted July 15 1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said: All set to be the ****test World Cup on record. 48 countries will be there but only 16 from Europe so there will be some right dross from around the globe. Let's hope they get the pitches and security etc sorted... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c729vgyz9rdo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,798 Posted July 15 10 minutes ago, wr4sb said: Let's hope they get the pitches and security etc sorted... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c729vgyz9rdo Bielsa sticking the boot in. I can see it being an agricultural type affair both on an off the pitch. Lasts for bloody 6 weeks as well. 104 games! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,217 Posted July 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said: All set to be the ****test World Cup on record. 48 countries will be there but only 16 from Europe so there will be some right dross from around the globe. Europe gets 16 places for 55 teams, which is 30 per cent. The rest of the world, with 207 countries, gets 32 places, which is 15 per cent. And in the last world cup non-European teams took two of the semi-final places, on merit. It was hardly FIFA’s fault something like 17 or 18 new countries were created in Europe by the fall of communism… Edited July 15 by PurpleCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 1,022 Posted July 15 5 hours ago, Capt. Pants said: All set to be the ****test World Cup on record. 48 countries will be there but only 16 from Europe so there will be some right dross from around the globe. Yeah, because there was no dross in the European championships... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yobocop 1,400 Posted July 15 9 minutes ago, cornish sam said: Yeah, because there was no dross in the European championships... The World Cup will be like watching paint dry in comparison at my current rate I’ll be completely off football by then lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fen Canary 1,404 Posted July 15 5 hours ago, Capt. Pants said: All set to be the ****test World Cup on record. 48 countries will be there but only 16 from Europe so there will be some right dross from around the globe. I’d argue the 48th team will be as close to those top 5 today as the 32nd team would have been in 1998 due to those smaller nations now having much greater numbers of players playing in the stronger leagues in Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
