**The Euro 2024 Thread**

[dj11 404]

I was at the game last, and with all the excitement and a few largers, I may have got it wrong, but I felt Pickfords distribution was poor, especially his kicking. 

[lake district canary 4,830]

23 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

36 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Looks like I touched a nerve there. Why not cheer yourself up by celebrating today with your imaginary Spanish friends?

No you haven’t touched a nerve. You’re a faceless nobody tw4t on a forum. If you insult me I’ll insult you back. Other than that,  you’re nobody as far as I’m concerned.

I tried that after receiving bad treatment on here and it took me a while to realise that all that happens is that you get dragged down to the insulter's level. For years now, I do the opposite and try and treat the insulters with patience and stay completely calm. Replying to insults with insults only makes you look as bad as the person doing it.  It was quite interesting the day I stopped trying to outwit/out insult one of my main protagonists on here, who had been making posting on here for me almost intolerable. He immediately turned on someone else and was banned within two weeks!   

Show the other cheek, old boy, show the other cheek - it takes the wind out of their sails and it will make posting on here much more pleasant for you (unless you enjoy the insulting game of course, in which case carry on). And it makes for a better looking forum than when it is littered with pointless battles. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,596]

10 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Still Southgates tactics cost us the final. Simple as.

Maybe, just maybe, Spain had the better players ?

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

3 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Maybe, just maybe, Spain had the better players ?

Or maybe it's both. Southgate had bad tactics and Spain were the better team. Two things can be true at once.

[......and Smith must score. 1,596]

10 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

I can't decide what's pissed me off the most today. Harry Kane's inability to hit the target or Thomas Matthew Crooks'.

 

Edited July 15 by ......and Smith must score.
Wrong thread

[......and Smith must score. 1,596]

 

10 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Must say, watching Spain play I was thinking about our own club and the hope for how we'll be setting up next season.

That may be as near as it gets 😉

[Newtopia 573]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No you haven’t touched a nerve. You’re a faceless nobody tw4t on a forum. If you insult me I’ll insult you back. Other than that,  you’re nobody as far as I’m concerned.

Trolls, troll best to ignore them.

[Newtopia 573]

After a bit of time I have decided I am proud of the team.  It was great to qualify for only our second final of my lifetime, just a shame we didn't really go for it.  I think it is time to have a coach with more progressive tactics, although I will be sad to see the Southgate era end.  I hope next England manager can take us a step further. 

[essex canary 622]

9 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Absolutely and I'd make every club in the country pay for it. Except that all NCFC and ITFC fans would bleat until the cows come home. The EPL needs a minimum of home grown players and managers, but no we'll be training up the Spanish and the like.

The FA is clueless, until we're putting the national team first England are going nowhere. How many nations are we subsidising in the EPL and Championship? Abdolute joke.

Yes essentially this is the problem. Spain apparently has 10 times the number of Football Coaches as England. It has many local floodlit pitches.Their second tier has relatively few foreigners with those that are largely being Hispanic South Americans. A better recipe for success than England, France, Germany or Italy. That said we did quite well this time round.

 

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

30 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Maybe, just maybe, Spain had the better players ?

But have they? I said before thr tournament that looked a bang average Spanish side compared to years gone by and I stand by that.

If Southgate was Spains manager where do you think they'd have reached? No further than the France game I'd wager.

[essex canary 622]

3 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

But have they? I said before thr tournament that looked a bang average Spanish side compared to years gone by and I stand by that.

If Southgate was Spains manager where do you think they'd have reached? No further than the France game I'd wager.

Maybe Spain will put Webber in charge? Then again maybe not.

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Gareth in my opinion had all the tools but unfortunately he just isn't the Artisan who knows how to use them effectively or properly....

I'm so disappointed we lost but at least we made the Final and gave it a go....Credit to the Spanish, they were up for it....tournament Trojans and deserved it....

Until the next time....Adiós y Hasta luego....

[The Raptor 1,573]

Only 696 days to the world cup! Bring it on

[Barbe bleu 1,032]

I've the last 12 hours we have learnt here that:

Walker is completely to blame, but so is Southgate. And others.

Walker is to blame for not attacking. And for attacking

Southgate is terrible. And not so bad.

Kane is past it.  And still our best striker 

We should have gone all out to win. And held out for extra time.

We should have played with 13 players in the 8/10 areas.

Spain were brilliant.  And pretty average.

Pickford was awful. But made no mistakes. Apart from the mistakes

 

Seem like easy things for the new manager (which could be southgate) to sort out.

[daly 551]

1 hour ago, Mello Yello said:

Gareth in my opinion had all the tools but unfortunately he just isn't the Artisan who knows how to use them effectively or properly....

I'm so disappointed we lost but at least we made the Final and gave it a go....Credit to the Spanish, they were up for it....tournament Trojans and deserved it....

Until the next time....Adiós y Hasta luego....

More a case Spain had better players, better  tactics, unbeaten compared to England scraping into the Final

The score should have been 3 or 4-1

 

[Hardhouse44 289]

This may have already be covered if so apologies. 

But if not I'm keen to hear peoples opinions on Declan Rice.

My own opinion prior to the tournament was hes was a top defensive midfielder. 

My opinion now is that hes almost a liability. Gave the ball away far to many times during the tournament. Bullied off he ball far to much weak in the tackle and 50/50s and failed to drive the play forward at any time. A real weak link. 

Opinions?

 

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

Just now, Hardhouse44 said:

This may have already be covered if so apologies. 

But if not I'm keen to hear peoples opinions on Declan Rice.

My own opinion prior to the tournament was hes was a top defensive midfielder. 

My opinion now is that hes almost a liability. Gave the ball away far to many times during the tournament. Bullied off he ball far to much weak in the tackle and 50/50s and failed to drive the play forward at any time. A real weak link. 

Opinions?

 

Rafael van der Vaart has summed him up perfectly 

[chicken 3,086]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Or maybe it's both. Southgate had bad tactics and Spain were the better team. Two things can be true at once.

Honestly, the best thing I have done this tournament is ignored all of the hype and then super-discections in post matches along with ignored a good 50% of commentary.

Southgate has been slaughtered sunce before a ball was kicked. The usual hype around the players and then huge negativity during the tournament. Largely led by the press.

Folks need to take a step back. Our media does this ALL of the time. It's a well established pattern. Getting people hyped up means anything other than a big win will be disappointing and it guarantees longer discussions and responses and essentially hits and sales.

I see so many people buying into this and just repeating it verbatum.

Could we have won the tournament? Yes. For me, having got to the final and given Spain a good game but losing right at the death and having clearances off the line to deny an equaliser... perhaps as a nation we need to just get behind our international teams more, worked for the women, and cut out being such sore loosers?

[chicken 3,086]

1 hour ago, Mello Yello said:

Gareth in my opinion had all the tools but unfortunately he just isn't the Artisan who knows how to use them effectively or properly....

I'm so disappointed we lost but at least we made the Final and gave it a go....Credit to the Spanish, they were up for it....tournament Trojans and deserved it....

Until the next time....Adiós y Hasta luego....

Don't agree. Very easy to say Watkins should start - which seems to be popular, but ignores that the impact he's made is against tired legs having defended against a very different prospect.

When I managed a team, I had two very pacey, fit and good footballing wide players. They could play wing or full back.

I'd start them at full back. They'd own most wingers at our level and then push them back and make them work. Our wingers weren't bad, but not as good as them... 5mins into the 2nd half I'd take the wingers off, bring on two full backs and push those two lads to wing. We'd often just overun the opposition at that point. Their wingers were knackered and having to defend and their full backs also tired.

Much like how Idah has come off the bench to score etc. I'm not saying Watkins couldn't start, but that his impact is increased by introducing him when he was. Same with some of the others.

[king canary 8,757]

11 minutes ago, chicken said:

Don't agree. Very easy to say Watkins should start - which seems to be popular, but ignores that the impact he's made is against tired legs having defended against a very different prospect.

This somewhat ignores the elephant in the room that the different prospect they'd been defending against was clearly unfit and hindering our buildup.

I get the argument that Watkins may work better as a super sub but in that case start Toney. It was clear pretty early on that Kane was well below his usual level.

[ZLF 335]

Southgate moved us forward post Iceland by adopting a defensive approach due to squad limiitations; staying tight and focusing on set pieces for goals as the attackers were not good enough.

As our talented youngsters came through he couldn't or wouldn't amend what for him had been a winning formula.

One last positive isnthat with stones guehi and konsa we have seen the last of maguire and prob dunk.  FBs need better depth, taa isn't an answer so there is opportunity there as walker should be retired.

What the new head coach needs to do to build on the excellent team spirit and flex a tactical approach that enables the attack (probably moving to a false 9 model given a dearth of options)to flourish while providing a shield in front of the back.  That shield means we will struggle to get all the attacking on the pitch so the team has to come first. with mainoo Wharton rice coming through we have a spine to succeed in 2 years time.  Just need that tactically astute coach who can deliver that in 10 day coach slots

 

[Robert N. LiM 6,282]

33 minutes ago, king canary said:

This somewhat ignores the elephant in the room that the different prospect they'd been defending against was clearly unfit and hindering our buildup.

Quite ironic that given how much Southgate has moved us away from the bad old days of underachieving, that in this tournament we were hampered by the old failings of playing an injured talisman (Beckham/Rooney) and trying to accommodate two players in Foden and Bellingham who want to play in the same position (Lampard, Gerrard).

Plus ça change...

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

1 hour ago, Hardhouse44 said:

This may have already be covered if so apologies. 

But if not I'm keen to hear peoples opinions on Declan Rice.

My own opinion prior to the tournament was hes was a top defensive midfielder. 

My opinion now is that hes almost a liability. Gave the ball away far to many times during the tournament. Bullied off he ball far to much weak in the tackle and 50/50s and failed to drive the play forward at any time. A real weak link. 

Opinions?

 

Given the dearth of English midfield talent in the EPL at the moment; Southgate or any other manager will really struggle to find better.

This is why the likes of Trent gets shoehorned into midfield and why the even more hopeless Gallagher is selected (until he got found out).

 

[king canary 8,757]

1 hour ago, Hardhouse44 said:

This may have already be covered if so apologies. 

But if not I'm keen to hear peoples opinions on Declan Rice.

My own opinion prior to the tournament was hes was a top defensive midfielder. 

My opinion now is that hes almost a liability. Gave the ball away far to many times during the tournament. Bullied off he ball far to much weak in the tackle and 50/50s and failed to drive the play forward at any time. A real weak link. 

Opinions?

 

I thought he started the tournament well- was my MOTM v Serbia- but while the team looked better balanced with Mainoo, he looked worse.

Personally I'd love to see him and Wharton together as I think it would free Rice up to play more like he does for Arsenal. Mainoo is exciting but I'm not convinced he's quite as good as some seem to think. 

[Barbe bleu 1,032]

46 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Quite ironic that given how much Southgate has moved us away from the bad old days of underachieving, that in this tournament we were hampered by the old failings of playing an injured talisman (Beckham/Rooney) and trying to accommodate two players in Foden and Bellingham who want to play in the same position (Lampard, Gerrard).

Plus ça change...

You forgot England's problematic left wing.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

2 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

This may have already be covered if so apologies. 

But if not I'm keen to hear peoples opinions on Declan Rice.

My own opinion prior to the tournament was hes was a top defensive midfielder. 

My opinion now is that hes almost a liability. Gave the ball away far to many times during the tournament. Bullied off he ball far to much weak in the tackle and 50/50s and failed to drive the play forward at any time. A real weak link. 

Opinions?

 

Unusually, I largely agree. England have problems in defence and in defensive midfield, as abundantly evidenced when they lose the ball and instantly start looking a bit vulnerable, which is why Southgate's got them focusing on keeping the ball and not taking too many risks in possession. And much is said of the creative capabilities of Foden at club level, but he's playing balls to a striker in Haaland who loves breaking lines, and he's got two genuinely world-class men in Rodri and De Bruyne behind him. Instead in an England shirt he's got a fairly average Rice behind him who can't pick a forward ball anywhere near as well as Rodri can, and he's playing balls to a striker in Kane who's more likely to come deep rather than break lines.

He did do well for Arsenal this season and looked like a midfielder of genuine class, but he's taken a step back in this tournament and let's face it, even at his peak he's miles behind someone like Rodri. It's harder to get the likes of Foden to be creative if the structure behind is not solid enough.

Edited July 15 by TheGunnShow

[Robert N. LiM 6,282]

15 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Unusually, I largely agree. England have problems in defence and in defensive midfield, as abundantly evidenced when they lose the ball and instantly start looking a bit vulnerable, which is why Southgate's got them focusing on keeping the ball and not taking too many risks in possession. [...]

He did do well for Arsenal this season and looked like a midfielder of genuine class, but he's taken a step back in this tournament and let's face it, even at his peak he's miles behind someone like Rodri. It's harder to get the likes of Foden to be creative if the structure behind is not solid enough.

Actually think Rice encapsulates all our issues. He's definitely one of those players people would include when they say "we have world-class performers playing brilliantly for their clubs", but in reality he is a deeply limited player, one of the energetic runaround merchants we have always overrated, who has limited awareness and passing ability.

Think it says it all that we had to scrabble around to fill that place next to him, starting with Trent, playing a kind of golden retriever in Connor Gallagher, before finally alighting on Mainoo, who does look an outstanding prospect, full of that awareness and passing ability, but who, understandably at 19 or whatever he is, lacks the experience to challenge the very best. Not sure he touched the ball in the first 20 minutes of the final.

People talk very hopefully of Wharton but he's even younger, isn't he? It would be great if we had an actual footballing midfielder or two in the England team rather than just athletes, but to me it's difficult to argue that we should be playing teenagers in these crucial positions and also arguing that reaching a final is somehow an underachievement.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

4 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Actually think Rice encapsulates all our issues. He's definitely one of those players people would include when they say "we have world-class performers playing brilliantly for their clubs", but in reality he is a deeply limited player, one of the energetic runaround merchants we have always overrated, who has limited awareness and passing ability.

Think it says it all that we had to scrabble around to fill that place next to him, starting with Trent, playing a kind of golden retriever in Connor Gallagher, before finally alighting on Mainoo, who does look an outstanding prospect, full of that awareness and passing ability, but who, understandably at 19 or whatever he is, lacks the experience to challenge the very best. Not sure he touched the ball in the first 20 minutes of the final.

People talk very hopefully of Wharton but he's even younger, isn't he? It would be great if we had an actual footballing midfielder or two in the England team rather than just athletes, but to me it's difficult to argue that we should be playing teenagers in these crucial positions and also arguing that reaching a final is somehow an underachievement.

Exactly, and you summed up why Rodri is a far better player - and also to a lesser extent buttressed my point on how Foden is more able to shine in a Manchester City shirt as opposed to an England one in this tournament with this collection of players around him.

it's not hard to see why Rice is needed, he's a willing workhorse who often can get a foot in, but heck, people criticised Henderson for playing sidewards, Rice plays backwards more often than not! If you're confronted with a superb pressing team like Spain, it's got to go through the spaces, not backwards.

Edited July 15 by TheGunnShow

[Robert N. LiM 6,282]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

heck, people criticised Henderson for playing sidewards

Yeah, thought Henderson had a great tournament.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yeah, thought Henderson had a great tournament.

LOL, yeah! Simply saying that a lot of the flak Henderson got during his time in the England squad was for being really dull in possession. Southgate made the right call in leaving him out and looking for fresh blood but as you said, there wasn't a deep pool of it to choose from, certainly not of proven operators anyway.