Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,212 Posted July 14 10 minutes ago, Samwam27 said: Klopp Seconded......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,459 Posted July 14 All that attacking quality and we tried to bore teams to loss with poor energy and sitting so deep our aging attacker played in defence more than in the opposition’s box and yet we still made the final! Would a more attacking manager and coaching set up get more out of the likes of Foden, Bellingham, Palmer, Gorgon, Saka to name a few? The strength of this new generation is there to see yet Southgate’s tactics stifled that today and this tournament, that’s why we had to come from behind in almost every game! Not till we had to step it up did we look half decent! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodlyOtsemobor 2,828 Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said: Seconded......... Thirded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barham Blitz 840 Posted July 14 (edited) 11 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: What, like how Kobbie Mainoo emerged and just might become a mainstay of the squad for at least the next ten years?  Indeed. This is what makes me laugh about a lot of the comments on here and elsewhere. We probably would win most games if we got to play the 4-7-6 formation that most seem to advocate. "Can't believe Southgate doesn't play X." / "But you have to play A B and C because they are world class players in the bestest squad in the tournament ..."   Edited July 14 by Barham Blitz 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Worthy Nigelton 1,285 Posted July 14 My thoughts:- Kyle Walker was a liability and Southgate should have played Trent Bellingham is a great player but didn't turn up Ditto Foden Kane wasn't fit Stones is a rolls royce of a centre half Guehi was surprisingly good Ultimately, we're a great side but it's hard to win international tournaments. The future looks bright though. Don't be too despondent. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,726 Posted July 14 30 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said: So you don’t believe there are Spaniards in Soth west France. You really are a d*k. All of the time. Oh, there are certainly Spaniards there. Just not any willing to spend time with a moronic gobsh*te like you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 7,276 Posted July 14 Just now, Barham Blitz said: Indeed. This is what makes me laugh about a lot of the comments on here and elsewhere. We probably would win most games of we got to play the 4-7-6 formation that most seem to advocate. "Can't believe Southgate doesn't play X." / "But you have to play A B and C because they are world class players in the bestest squad in the tournament ..."   I'm looking forward to hearing about a potential England team with Palmer, Foden, Bellingham, Mainoo, Saka, Maddison, Grealish, Sancho, Toney and Watkins on all at about the same time. 😉 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtopia 569 Posted July 14 I am just gutted. Southgate made a lot of tough calls (leaving out Rashford and Grealish), taking off Kane, playing Mainoo / Guehi, and when we scored I really believed it was our opportunity. Spain scored a great goal, Walker could have been closer, and Guehi should have affected the striker - but it was fantastically executed. I expect Southgate will leave just hope people treat him with respect, and the FA can find someone who brings his best attributes and possibly take a couple more risks. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,547 Posted July 14 17 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: What, like how Kobbie Mainoo emerged and just might become a mainstay of the squad for at least the next ten years?  After that imbecile was forced to play him because his preferred kick and rush option of Gallagher was so poor. After the Croatia game at the World Cup it was so obvious that midfield control was what we needed to sort. He turned up at this tournament without a clue how to do that. He’s genuinely really, really dim. He may speak well but he has zero game management intelligence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,032 Posted July 14 (edited) On a night when their 2 apparant best players , Rodri was subbed at h/t and Yamal was kept relatively quiet, they still couldnt do it. Sadly ,I think think we'll ever find a more favourable situation that at Wembley 3 yrs ago vs a mediocre Italy, tonight was an unexpected,bonus ,second chance. The World cup is no easier ,when you have all these teams plus Argentina and Brazil Just hope we dont turn into another Belgium and see a good generation of players pass by without winning anything Which young players are there to come in? Palmer has to start from now, Reece James if he can stay fit, how good is Wharton? Edited July 14 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtopia 569 Posted July 14 Just now, Jim Smith said: After that imbecile was forced to play him because his preferred kick and rush option of Gallagher was so poor. After the Croatia game at the World Cup it was so obvious that midfield control was what we needed to sort. He turned up at this tournament without a clue how to do that. He’s genuinely really, really dim. He may speak well but he has zero game management intelligence. That is just laughable. He gave the 18 year old a chance and included him in the squad. He played some other players in the position and Mainoo did well when he got the chance and Southgate stuck with him.  We weren't the best team in Europe and did not deserve to win. Southgate got us closer than anyone ever has. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtopia 569 Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said: On a night when their 2 apparant best players , Rodri was subbed at h/t and Yamal was kept relatively quiet, they still couldnt do it. Sadly ,I think think we'll ever find a more favourable situation that at Wembley 3 yrs ago vs a mediocre Italy, tonight was an unexpected,bonus ,second chance. The World cup is no easier ,when you have all these teams plus Argentina and Brazil Just hope we dont turn into another Belgium and see a good generation of players pass by without winning anything Which young players are there to come in? Palmer has to start from now, Reece James if he cant stay fit, how good is Wharton? I hope the next squad is built to enable the very best player (I assume Bellingham - although we played better in this tournament when it was Foden) to play in his best position. Then create a structure around that, with the best available round pegs in the relevant holes.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 7,276 Posted July 14 4 minutes ago, Newtopia said: That is just laughable. He gave the 18 year old a chance and included him in the squad. He played some other players in the position and Mainoo did well when he got the chance and Southgate stuck with him.  We weren't the best team in Europe and did not deserve to win. Southgate got us closer than anyone ever has. Beat me to it. Realistically England were the third-best team in this tournament at best after France and Spain. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,909 Posted July 14 6 minutes ago, percy varco said: It will be Potter. Safe #2 That is my fear. The FA won't stump up £10m odd to get Howe. It will be the cheap option. Personally I'd levy all the EPL, Championship and EFL clubs.... Potter would be a disaster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodlyOtsemobor 2,828 Posted July 14 (edited) 4-1-3-1-1            Pickford Trent     Stones.     Guehi.  Shaw.               Rice    Saka.    Bellingham   Palmer              Foden             Watkins  Harsh on mainoo but he can rotate with Rice, at the minute Rice edges the CDM role but in time will be a better player.        Edited July 14 by GodlyOtsemobor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 7,276 Posted July 14 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said: 4-1-3-1-1            Pickford Trent     Stones.     Guehi.  Shaw.               Rice    Saka.    Bellingham   Palmer              Foden             Watkins        Swap Palmer for Mainoo, or at least a naturally more defensive/balanced midfielder and I think that's close, but I'm not sure about TAA at right-back either. The concern I'd have with that line-up would be if they lost the ball and how vulnerable they could be in the middle of the park. Edited July 14 by TheGunnShow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Worthy Nigelton 1,285 Posted July 14 1 minute ago, GodlyOtsemobor said: 4-1-3-1-1            Pickford Trent     Stones.     Guehi.  Shaw.               Rice    Saka.    Bellingham   Palmer              Foden             Watkins        Love that. Although maybe Mainoo ahead of Rice. Tough call though. Trent definitely should have been in at right back - that was a Southgate error. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodlyOtsemobor 2,828 Posted July 14 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: Swap Palmer for Mainoo, or at least a naturally more defensive/balanced midfielder and I think that's close, but I'm not sure about TAA at right-back either. The concern I'd have with that line-up would be if they lost the ball and how vulnerable they could be in the middle of the park. To be honest, I'm not 100% on Trent but unsure of who else can really be put in there, James is crocked 95% of the time and Walker is past his best at international level. Trent is the only real option at the moment. And to the losing the ball trouble, the instructions HAS to be to Bellingham to be the one to drop back when on the defensive, he's through the middle behind Foden and Watkins to link the ball forwards and/or drive forward and feed them higher up but HAS to pull back and drop pretty much alongside Rice if/when possession is lost. He has the engine to do this. Palmer has to start for me, he just wants to get things going and attack. Another reason to get Bellingham to play as the link rather than a totally attack minded player. Allow Palmer/saka some more freedom while the opposition are concentrating on Bellingham's ability to drive forward, get him to do this sporadically and use his ability to link everyone together while being the one who can drop back when needed. It alllllll slots in nicely. 14 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said: Love that. Although maybe Mainoo ahead of Rice. Tough call though. Trent definitely should have been in at right back - that was a Southgate error. Yeah mainoo/Rice is tough, however I feel like Mainoo is still relatively raw and will absolutely grow better with time/age and eventually be the better player but for now with change I feel like the more experienced head in Rice is needed to anchor in and shield the defence, especially with Trent at RB as he's far better going forward.   Maybe mainoo is a Rolls Royce and can play at RB for us 🤔🤔 a reverse Trent if you will.   Now.... Where do I go to sign my contract? 50k a week should do it 🙂 however I'll work from home, like hell am I moving to that cesspit London. Edited July 14 by GodlyOtsemobor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheGunnShow 7,276 Posted July 14 1 minute ago, GodlyOtsemobor said: To be honest, I'm not 100% on Trent but unsure of who else can really be put in there, James is crocked 95% of the time and Walker is past his best at international level. Trent is the only real option at the moment. And to the losing the ball trouble, the instructions HAS to be to Bellingham to be the one to drop back when on the defensive, he's through the middle behind Foden and Watkins to link the ball forwards and/or drive forward and feed them higher up but HAS to pull back and drop pretty much alongside Rice if/when possession is lost. He has the engine to do this. Palmer has to start for me, he just wants to get things going and attack. Another reason to get Bellingham to play as the link rather than a totally attack minded player. Allow Palmer/saka some more freedom while the opposition are concentrating on Bellingham's ability to drive forward, get him to do this sporadically and use his ability to link everyone together while being the one who can drop back when needed. It alllllll slots in nicely. Yeah mainoo/Rice is tough, however I feel like Mainoo is still relatively raw and will absolutely grow better with time/age and eventually be the better player but for now with change I feel like the more experienced head in Rice is needed to anchor in and shield the defence, especially with Trent at RB as he's far better going forward.      Now.... Where do I go to sign my contract? 50k a week should do it 🙂 however I'll work from home, like hell am I moving to that cesspit London. If you're putting Trent in, a player who's known to be a defensive liability at this level, I really do think you're going to need a more defensive midfielder as well as Rice. Bellingham does have a good engine and ideally you get him doing what Sara at his best does for us, you want him near half-way, on the half-turn, getting ready to rumble forwards. Besides, if that second defensive player can hit a raking diagonal for Trent or Saka to run onto, it could help if the ball is turned over. Basically, I'm saying if you're going to go with TAA, I think you're going to need two midfielders that shield. One plus a box-to-box one might be a bit vulnerable if the box-to-box man is a bit far up. Could even be an argument for having Palmer as a first choice sub for Foden, or vice versa. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AJ 1,346 Posted July 14 (edited) The main difference for me was Spain deployed a system that got the best out of their best players, IE their two wingers. We failed to do that all tournament bar a few spells in the first half against the Netherlands. Kane, Foden, Bellingham and to a lesser point Saka all largely poor because the system didn't allow them to flourish. Change the system and bring on Palmer and Watkins and suddenly we look like a team actually trying to score a goal. I totally get making us difficult to beat, defensively (tonight aside) we were probably the best in the tournament, but it's about finding the balance and we did not do that well this tournament, which given the plethora of attacking talent at our disposal is very disappointing. That said, Gareth and the boys should be proud of their efforts. At one stage it looked like we might not get out of the group and in true Mike Bassett style we managed to fumble our way into another final which is no mean feat. The least we want to see is a bit of fight and we definitely got that the last few games Edited July 14 by AJ 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodlyOtsemobor 2,828 Posted July 14 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said: If you're putting Trent in, a player who's known to be a defensive liability at this level, I really do think you're going to need a more defensive midfielder as well as Rice. Bellingham does have a good engine and ideally you get him doing what Sara at his best does for us, you want him near half-way, on the half-turn, getting ready to rumble forwards. Besides, if that second defensive player can hit a raking diagonal for Trent or Saka to run onto, it could help if the ball is turned over. Basically, I'm saying if you're going to go with TAA, I think you're going to need two midfielders that shield. One plus a box-to-box one might be a bit vulnerable if the box-to-box man is a bit far up. Could even be an argument for having Palmer as a first choice sub for Foden, or vice versa. Ideally I wouldn't be playing Trent. ( Or Shaw - more to fitness reasons )  We really need some new blood to burst onto the scene much like Micah Richards 🤣 Edited July 14 by GodlyOtsemobor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,909 Posted July 14 57 minutes ago, Samwam27 said: Klopp Absolutely and I'd make every club in the country pay for it. Except that all NCFC and ITFC fans would bleat until the cows come home. The EPL needs a minimum of home grown players and managers, but no we'll be training up the Spanish and the like. The FA is clueless, until we're putting the national team first England are going nowhere. How many nations are we subsidising in the EPL and Championship? Abdolute joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 3,109 Posted July 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, canarydan23 said: Oh, there are certainly Spaniards there. Just not any willing to spend time with a moronic gobsh*te like you. You’re a sad bitter and twisted loser. Get off your fat **** and sign up to be manager if you can do better. I feel really sorry for your kids with such a cr4p example to follow. Edited July 14 by littleyellowbirdie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fen Canary 1,450 Posted July 14 I’m not going to blame Southgate for today, even though I have been critical in the past for being too cautious. The team he picked was basically the same as I’d have picked, and the only difference I’d have made in regards to the subs would have been to bring Toney in earlier to hold the ball up and mix it up a bit. Ultimately we were beaten by a better side. I think that’s probably the end of Southgate, it will do him and the team good for a change but he can leave with his head held high. Everybody moaning must have forgotten we couldn’t even make a semi final since 1996 before he turned up 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 3,109 Posted July 15 5 hours ago, Fen Canary said: I’m not going to blame Southgate for today, even though I have been critical in the past for being too cautious. The team he picked was basically the same as I’d have picked, and the only difference I’d have made in regards to the subs would have been to bring Toney in earlier to hold the ball up and mix it up a bit. Ultimately we were beaten by a better side. I think that’s probably the end of Southgate, it will do him and the team good for a change but he can leave with his head held high. Everybody moaning must have forgotten we couldn’t even make a semi final since 1996 before he turned up It's really disappointing, no question. But, I think this has been a really enjoyable tournament overall. We've come from behind in several games and we've seen an England team deliver an impeccable penalty shootout. I just think we've come so tantalisingly close so many times now with this mix that it'd be nuts to roll the dice at this point. In two years they're going to be more fired up than ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
duke63 715 Posted July 15 As a tournament overall, I think it’s been very average. A lot of the players looked tired and in dire need of a decent rest. Sadly money will dictate they get two weeks off before playing pointless friendlies in Saudi, USA, Australia etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fen Canary 1,450 Posted July 15 19 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said: It's really disappointing, no question. But, I think this has been a really enjoyable tournament overall. We've come from behind in several games and we've seen an England team deliver an impeccable penalty shootout. I just think we've come so tantalisingly close so many times now with this mix that it'd be nuts to roll the dice at this point. In two years they're going to be more fired up than ever. I can understand that, however I’m in the twist rather than stick frame of mind now. We’ve been knocking at the door, maybe a change and a freshen up may be the thing we need to finally finish it off, though I admit it’s not without risks. I think Southgate will leave though making it all rather irrelevant. He’s spoke this time about the pressure of the job so I get the impression he might fancy a break Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,726 Posted July 15 7 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said: You’re a sad bitter and twisted loser. Get off your fat **** and sign up to be manager if you can do better. I feel really sorry for your kids with such a cr4p example to follow. Looks like I touched a nerve there. Why not cheer yourself up by celebrating today with your imaginary Spanish friends? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,547 Posted July 15 8 hours ago, Newtopia said: That is just laughable. He gave the 18 year old a chance and included him in the squad. He played some other players in the position and Mainoo did well when he got the chance and Southgate stuck with him.  We weren't the best team in Europe and did not deserve to win. Southgate got us closer than anyone ever has. We should have been the best team. We played poorly for the entire tournament. He only played Mainoo as Gallagher and Trent didn’t work. He didn’t give Wharton a chance at all. He left out all other left sided players aside from Shaw and Gordon snd refused to use the latter. He left out Grealish and Rashford quite ludicrously. Southgate had s complete mare and was all over the place from the moment he named his squad for this tournament. Could not have performed more badly other than as usual he handles the off the pitch stuff well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 3,109 Posted July 15 11 minutes ago, canarydan23 said: Looks like I touched a nerve there. Why not cheer yourself up by celebrating today with your imaginary Spanish friends? No you haven’t touched a nerve. You’re a faceless nobody tw4t on a forum. If you insult me I’ll insult you back. Other than that,  you’re nobody as far as I’m concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites