**The Euro 2024 Thread**

[king canary 8,267]

It's tough to argue that Southgate and England haven't been exceedingly lucky these last two games. We could easily have gone out and not had any argument that is was undeserved and a large part of the blame would lie with the incredibly passive management we see in game.

Saying that...I spent the entire penalty shoot out high fiving and celebrating with my incredibly excited 4 year old, and fundamentally moments like that are what football is all about. Bring on Wednesday.

[hogesar 10,276]

Tournament football and Southgate knows how to get us into the latter stages better than any manager in our history.

Yes, Netherlands are more attacking than us. That doesn't make them more likely to win. They only created one big chance and gave their opponents two. 

Rice has been very good majority of the time, him and Mainoo will be vital.

[king canary 8,267]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Tournament football and Southgate knows how to get us into the latter stages better than any manager in our history.

Yes, Netherlands are more attacking than us. That doesn't make them more likely to win. They only created one big chance and gave their opponents two. 

Rice has been very good majority of the time, him and Mainoo will be vital.

Mainoo has complimented Rice much more than Gallagher or TAA did. Defensively I've no doubt Southgate knows what he's doing 

I'd just love to see him be a bit more ballsy and be more willing to take over the big name attackers who aren't playing well. Kane has been bad this tournament and doesn't seem fit, yet it took him being injured for the substitution to happen. Foden was again woeful but only taken off so Trent could take a penalty. These players seem untouchable because Southgate seemingly is worried about losing what these players might do over what questioning what they are actually producing.

[Yobocop 1,328]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Eindhoven, then straight on to train across, that’s how the kids have been doing it, it’s so much cheaper.

Makes sense 

great city Eindhoven 

[Capt. Pants 4,716]

Just home after a fantastic afternoon and evening. This is what football is all about. Brilliant.

[hogesar 10,276]

8 minutes ago, king canary said:

Mainoo has complimented Rice much more than Gallagher or TAA did. Defensively I've no doubt Southgate knows what he's doing 

I'd just love to see him be a bit more ballsy and be more willing to take over the big name attackers who aren't playing well. Kane has been bad this tournament and doesn't seem fit, yet it took him being injured for the substitution to happen. Foden was again woeful but only taken off so Trent could take a penalty. These players seem untouchable because Southgate seemingly is worried about losing what these players might do over what questioning what they are actually producing.

Yeah I mean Kane looks unfit and previously I thought its a bit harsh as he's had a difficult job but today we had both Foden and Bellingham high and close to him but he didn't win enough of his battles.

 

[Well b back 3,561]

Didn’t realise they had to halt Wimbledon for a few minutes as the crowd were cheering as the penalties went in. Just saw on the news as well, Djokovic and his opponent, Djokovic the penalty taker and his opponent the goalkeeper.

[Well b back 3,561]

13 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Just home after a fantastic afternoon and evening. This is what football is all about. Brilliant.

Indeed, it’s not just the fun of the football, it’s the financial boost to the pubs and clubs with every England victory.

For those not aware Englands next game the semi final is 8pm U.K. time on Wednesday. Should we get to the final that is Sunday 14/7/24 and I believe this is also an 8pm k.o. 
Should we win Wednesday we are planning to come back then go straight back over in a minibus. Some of us have loads of fans points so we may pick up some tickets for the final but I have to say, if that fanzone on tv tonight is the one where the final is that will be just as amazing.

 

[PurpleCanary 6,118]

58 minutes ago, king canary said:

It's tough to argue that Southgate and England haven't been exceedingly lucky these last two games. We could easily have gone out and not had any argument that is was undeserved and a large part of the blame would lie with the incredibly passive management we see in game.

Saying that...I spent the entire penalty shoot out high fiving and celebrating with my incredibly excited 4 year old, and fundamentally moments like that are what football is all about. Bring on Wednesday.

On 28 minutes England were awarded a throw-in when it was clear that the ball was still in play when the Swiss defender hoicked it forward. And as a direct result 52 minutes later England scored an equaliser...😂

Edited July 6 by PurpleCanary

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

On 28 minutes England were awarded a throw-in when it was clear that the ball was still in play when the Swiss defender hoicked it forward. 

Tofik Bakhmarov lives.

[lake district canary 4,695]

29 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah I mean Kane looks unfit and previously I thought its a bit harsh as he's had a difficult job but today we had both Foden and Bellingham high and close to him but he didn't win enough of his battles.

 

Toney was much more effective when he came on, lots of movement, pulling defenders around out of position and being a nuisance. It was simply too easy for the opposition to defend for most of the match. .

[Fen Canary 1,292]

10 hours ago, hogesar said:

Tournament football and Southgate knows how to get us into the latter stages better than any manager in our history.

Yes, Netherlands are more attacking than us. That doesn't make them more likely to win. They only created one big chance and gave their opponents two. 

Rice has been very good majority of the time, him and Mainoo will be vital.

I’ll happily admit you can’t argue with his record, I’ll take playing like we are if we go on and win it. But there’s also a part of me that thinks the draws have been very kind to him, Germany aside there aren’t too many of the traditional big teams that we’ve beaten 

Won

Sweden

Columbia (Penalties)

Panama

Tunisia

Denmark

Ukraine

Germany

Croatia 

Czech Republic

Senegal

Wales

Iran

Serbia

Slovakia 

Switzerland (Penalties)

 

Drew

Scotland

USA

Slovenia

Denmark

 

Lost

Croatia

Belgium x2

Italy (Penalties)

France

 

I know you can only beat what’s in front of you, but he’s been fortunate that we’ve generally avoided the big sides until the later stages 

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

12 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Germany aside there aren’t too many of the traditional big teams that we’ve beaten 

Germany under Southgate aside we haven't beaten a traditional 'big team' in a knockout game since 1966.

[Fen Canary 1,292]

2 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Germany under Southgate aside we haven't beaten a traditional 'big team' in a knockout game since 1966.

Good point. As I say we always seemed to have a habit of drawing them in the second round or quarter finals. It’s probably no coincidence the other times we’ve made the semis we avoided the big teams in Italia 90 and scraped past Spain in Euro 96

[king canary 8,267]

16 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

 

I know you can only beat what’s in front of you, but he’s been fortunate that we’ve generally avoided the big sides until the later stages 

This is fair but it's still worth noting it's an improvement on what came before.

2016 we went out to Iceland

2014 we finished bottom of a group containing Costa Rica

2010 went out to Germany in the last 16 who we ended up playing because we couldn't win a group with USA, Algeria and Slovakia.

We've had favourable draws before and failed to progress because we haven't done the basics. Southgate has at least made it so we qualify with ease and generally handle the games we're favourites for.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,981]

11 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I’ll happily admit you can’t argue with his record, I’ll take playing like we are if we go on and win it. But there’s also a part of me that thinks the draws have been very kind to him, Germany aside there aren’t too many of the traditional big teams that we’ve beaten 

Won

Sweden (28)

Columbia (Penalties) (12)

Panama (43)

Tunisia (41)

Denmark (21)

Ukraine (24)

Germany (16)

Croatia (9)

Czech Republic (34)

Senegal (18)

Wales (29)

Iran (20)

Serbia (32)

Slovakia (45)

Switzerland (Penalties) (19)

 

Drew

Scotland (39)

USA (11)

Slovenia (57)

Denmark (21)

 

Lost

Croatia (9)

Belgium x2 (3)

Italy (Penalties) (10)

France (2)

 

I know you can only beat what’s in front of you, but he’s been fortunate that we’ve generally avoided the big sides until the later stages 

For a bit of fun I put in team's international rankings on that list. Given that we're ranked 5th in the world, it's going to be pretty rare that opposition gives us trouble. Three of those games we've lost were against sides ranked above us.

 

[Mello Yello 2,465]

Rejoice....I am....an' take every game as it comes....(I'd start Toney on Wednesday and have in my opinion the slightly jaded looking Harry on the bench)....Spain in the Final I reckon, that's if we manage to get past the Dutch?....

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,958]

@king canary, @Robert N. LiM, @Fen Canary

Excellent posts that all concur with my own thoughts about the current state of the England team.

Southgate has had some luck but has also changed the narrative in some aspects of England's footballing history - for instance, the penalties last night were the most on point and confident I have seen from an England team by some way.

However, ultimately, it will all be for nothing if we can't put to bed our inability to beat the very best when it really matters.

The Dutch are very similar to England in the pecking order of world football - I view that as a 50/50 game.

Could we beat the French or the Spanish if we got that far? History would reply with a resounding 'NO!'...but maybe...just maybe one last narrative change is around the corner.

As ever...it's the hope that kills you.

OTBC

[littleyellowbirdie 2,981]

1 minute ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

As ever...it's the hope that kills you.

This is why I gave up hoping about anything a long time ago. Expect nothing and you'll never be disappointed!

Edited July 7 by littleyellowbirdie

[king canary 8,267]

An example of England's issues right now.

Top heat map is Kane, bottom is Embolo. Both playing up front but Kane is spending so much time dropping deep, while Embolo is actually where you need a centre forward to be. Kane clearly isn't fully fit and lacks the mobility right now to be dropping so deep as he can't then get forward. Southgate either has to tell him to stay further forward and stop playing in the center circle or he needs to drop him for a fitter player who can supply the movement we need.

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

21 minutes ago, king canary said:

Southgate either has to tell him to stay further forward and stop playing in the center circle

Think you could argue that our best period of the whole tournament was the first twenty minutes against Serbia when he did exactly that and (iirc) didn't touch the ball.

[king canary 8,267]

2 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Think you could argue that our best period of the whole tournament was the first twenty minutes against Serbia when he did exactly that and (iirc) didn't touch the ball.

Yep. Personally I'd drop him. I know it's a big call but he's clearly not fully fit and he's harming our buildup play. Toney would give us so much more right now, especially in this formation where he can bring Bellingham and Foden into the game more.

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

25 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Southgate has had some luck but has also changed the narrative in some aspects of England's footballing history - for instance, the penalties last night were the most on point and confident I have seen from an England team by some way.

Yeah, and I think this is where he suffers. He has succeeded so completely in making this group of players a team who plays for each other and actually likes wearing the shirt, rather than a collection of grumpy egomaniacs, that we have forgotten just what a seismic mess the England team was before he took over. Even though many of those grumpy egomaniacs are conveniently on show in the BBC and ITV studios to aid the comparison.

So we now take his considerable strengths for granted and only focus on his (undeniable) weaknesses, such as his inability - and seeming lack of interest! - in changing the team from the bench when the game starts going against us.

Would be the absolute pinnacle of the toxic relationship between the England football team and its coach (whoever he is) if we win this tournament and people still hate him.

Three semi-finals in four tournaments is the bottom line. You can prove anything with facts

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Yep. Personally I'd drop him. I know it's a big call but he's clearly not fully fit and he's harming our buildup play. Toney would give us so much more right now, especially in this formation where he can bring Bellingham and Foden into the game more.

Can Toney last 120 minutes? He absolutely has to be on the field at the end of extra time 😉 

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

50 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Good point. As I say we always seemed to have a habit of drawing them in the second round or quarter finals. It’s probably no coincidence the other times we’ve made the semis we avoided the big teams in Italia 90 and scraped past Spain in Euro 96

Probably also worth saying that as the tournaments have expanded, the number of winnable knockout games has also increased.

Bobby Robson's Euro88 team went out in the group stage *and* reached the last eight.

[Fen Canary 1,292]

3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Probably also worth saying that as the tournaments have expanded, the number of winnable knockout games has also increased.

Bobby Robson's Euro88 team went out in the group stage *and* reached the last eight.

This is true. Until recently the Euros was only 16 teams (8 before that as you say) so you were much more likely to meet a bigger side early on 

[Fen Canary 1,292]

9 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yeah, and I think this is where he suffers. He has succeeded so completely in making this group of players a team who plays for each other and actually likes wearing the shirt, rather than a collection of grumpy egomaniacs, that we have forgotten just what a seismic mess the England team was before he took over. Even though many of those grumpy egomaniacs are conveniently on show in the BBC and ITV studios to aid the comparison.

So we now take his considerable strengths for granted and only focus on his (undeniable) weaknesses, such as his inability - and seeming lack of interest! - in changing the team from the bench when the game starts going against us.

Would be the absolute pinnacle of the toxic relationship between the England football team and its coach (whoever he is) if we win this tournament and people still hate him.

Three semi-finals in four tournaments is the bottom line. You can prove anything with facts

He probably is a victim of his success. In 2018 I was ecstatic to make the semis (although still feel losing to Croatia was a missed opportunity)! due to what had gone on before. Now I think reaching the semis with this squad is the minimum he should be achieving (rightly or wrongly) 

[Old Shuck 269]

12 hours ago, king canary said:

It's tough to argue that Southgate and England haven't been exceedingly lucky these last two games. We could easily have gone out and not had any argument that is was undeserved and a large part of the blame would lie with the incredibly passive management we see in game.

Saying that...I spent the entire penalty shoot out high fiving and celebrating with my incredibly excited 4 year old, and fundamentally moments like that are what football is all about. Bring on Wednesday.

For reasons I am unable to explain or comprehend, we went into that shoot out yesterday with my having absolutely no doubt whatsoever that we'd prevail, the tension levels were negligible.

Very scary.

Bellingham's pen though, I mean, bloody hell!!

[Robert N. LiM 5,467]

3 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

For reasons I am unable to explain or comprehend, we went into that shoot out yesterday with my having absolutely no doubt whatsoever that we'd prevail, the tension levels were negligible.

Yeah, me too. Very strange. I was a bit nervous for Saka, if I'm honest. What a moment.

[Old Shuck 269]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yeah, me too. Very strange. I was a bit nervous for Saka, if I'm honest. What a moment.

The smile on Saka's face when he scored his....wow!