**The Euro 2024 Thread**

[Midlands Yellow 4,592]

Southgate says we’re missing Kalvin Phillips. Fair comment, he’s an exciting player who fans love to watch. 

[Google Bot 3,713]

"We know it's an experiment. We know we don't have a natural replacement for Kalvin Philips. We're trying different things and at the moment we're not flowing as we'd like."

[PurpleCanary 6,217]

England have entered 35 international competitions - World Cups and Euros - and won once and reached one other final.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,491]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

England have entered 35 international competitions - World Cups and Euros - and won once and reached one other final.

And if I'm not mistaken, reached four semi finals.

Of these six, Sir Alf Ramsey and Gareth Southgate are the only managers in charge for two of them.

[Sheva 146]

10 hours ago, Keith Scott said:

That interview from Southgate was a wreck. Looks on the edge. A man who knows he's out of his depth. Do everyone a favour, send him home and let the players work it put for themselves.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

Southgate doesn’t think he can replace Kalvin Phillips, a basic player who can’t get in a premier league team!

Southgate is a loser, he only got the job because  he was already in the building, a woke  safe pair of hands, he has achieved nothing above what’s expected with the talents at his disposal .

Hasn’t got the character and honesty of a Kevin Keegan who admitted he was out of his depth at international level and walked for the sake of his country.

[duke63 698]

11 hours ago, Conrad said:

Just like watching Norwich under Wagner. Perhaps, like Norwich, England require a change of manager?

My son said that last night. Wagnerball!

[Midlands Yellow 4,592]

When he leaves the England job who’d want him at club level? Even most Championship clubs fans would be disappointed to see Southgate unveiled. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,592]

1 hour ago, Sheva said:

Southgate doesn’t think he can replace Kalvin Phillips, a basic player who can’t get in a premier league team!

Southgate is a loser, he only got the job because  he was already in the building, a woke  safe pair of hands, he has achieved nothing above what’s expected with the talents at his disposal .

Hasn’t got the character and honesty of a Kevin Keegan who admitted he was out of his depth at international level and walked for the sake of his country.

That Kalvin Philips quote was on par with Rishi’s Sky dish moment. Maybe the pair could get on the road as comedians in the next few weeks. 

[dj11 398]

I was at the game last night, and from the very start the Danish fans were up for it. The England fans, myself included, were so subdued, and of course the football being dire doesn’t help. At one stage, Foden obviously got fed up with the way we were playing, and took on the defence and caused some chaos, and got the crowd going. He was one of the first to be subbed after AA. I think deep down Southgate is happy with the result, and that worries me. 

[ZLF 331]

We need to apply a high press; if necessary dropping kane to enable it.   

As for phillips the answer isn't the limited ball player yet eager puppy gallagher but Wharton who is quick with the ball and disciplined positionally allowing rice to step forward as he does for arsenal.   And use palmer!

More positively Guehi has ireally mpressed. Embrace these in form youngsters

[hogesar 10,390]

47 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

When he leaves the England job who’d want him at club level? Even most Championship clubs fans would be disappointed to see Southgate unveiled. 

United were genuinely interested

[Midlands Yellow 4,592]

32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

United were genuinely interested

Maidstone Utd? 
 

Here’s one of the kinder remarks from Red Cafe on Southgate at Old Trafford. 
 

There should be riots if he ever comes close to the united job, absolute riots and I mean it. If he ever becomes the united manager that would be the death of me. This grim reaper of the beautiful game which we call football should never be mentioned together with Manchester United.

Edited June 21 by Midlands Yellow

[Capt. Pants 4,797]

There doesn't seem to be any organised press, which is extremely disappointing given that all our players play for teams that do just that. 

Saying we haven't replaced Kalvin Phillips is a quite unbelievable comment. Phillips has barely played since dropped by England and that says a lot about his skills and ability.

I've not given Southgate the flack some have due to his record but if he were NCFC manager I'd be getting well grumpy by now.

It seems a really disorganised unprofessional approach for this tournament where virtually all countries are playing better than we are.

[lake district canary 4,732]

This is the same rhetoric that we've had ever since I can remember.  Safety first. 

The managers England we get rarely have what it takes to get the England players playing their best. So it ALWAYS looks as if it is safety first that is the number one plan. Always. It's never "lets take it to the opposition and put them under pressure".  So we get years - decades - of turgid uninspiring football. So we scrape to a semi-final every now and then - even a final - but the build ups, the friendlies, the early rounds are beset with a methodology that makes the whole process so tedious.

I may be talking out of turn because I don't watch an awful lot of England play any more, I'd rather watch teams that play good football, or at least look as if they are giving it a go - but whenever I do, or whenever I read reports, the situation hasn't changed. The breath of fresh air that Venables then Hoddle brought over 25 years ago, was snuffed out because they were too controversial and for the last two decades plus, its been back to that dull tedious approach that besets our international football.

Some of you will probably say I haven't watched enough of it, or that there have been games when we've played well, but the overall feeling about it remains - timid safety first football. Until we get out of that mentality, which comes from the kind of manager the FA pick, it will be more of the same. 

Will we win one day with that mentality? Maybe we will, who knows, but will the process have been worth it? I wonder.

[Capt. Pants 4,797]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

This is the same rhetoric that we've had ever since I can remember.  Safety first. 

The managers England we get rarely have what it takes to get the England players playing their best. So it ALWAYS looks as if it is safety first that is the number one plan. Always. It's never "lets take it to the opposition and put them under pressure".  So we get years - decades - of turgid uninspiring football. So we scrape to a semi-final every now and then - even a final - but the build ups, the friendlies, the early rounds are beset with a methodology that makes the whole process so tedious.

I may be talking out of turn because I don't watch an awful lot of England play any more, I'd rather watch teams that play good football, or at least look as if they are giving it a go - but whenever I do, or whenever I read reports, the situation hasn't changed. The breath of fresh air that Venables then Hoddle brought over 25 years ago, was snuffed out because they were too controversial and for the last two decades plus, its been back to that dull tedious approach that besets our international football.

Some of you will probably say I haven't watched enough of it, or that there have been games when we've played well, but the overall feeling about it remains - timid safety first football. Until we get out of that mentality, which comes from the kind of manager the FA pick, it will be more of the same. 

Will we win one day with that mentality? Maybe we will, who knows, but will the process have been worth it? I wonder.

I can't see us winning much or getting close. There are too many very good players in the world now. 

It's not enough just to turn up and run around a lot and 'be brave', football at this level has to bs technically excellent, tactically spot on and Southgate is probably getting left behind now.

Spain look more like a club side than an international one. Will it be enough to win the tournament? Who knows, but you can't help but not like their style, pace and intensity.

 

[PurpleCanary 6,217]

9 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

And if I'm not mistaken, reached four semi finals.

 

True, but a contrast would be with The Netherlands (population 17m as opposed to England's 57m), with four finals (winning one) and six other semi-finals. And that is a genuine modern-day comparison.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,491]

54 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

True, but a contrast would be with The Netherlands (population 17m as opposed to England's 57m), with four finals (winning one) and six other semi-finals. And that is a genuine modern-day comparison.

My post was defending Southgate's record rather than England's. 

I agree that England's tournament record for a country of our size and stature within the game is very poor. 

[Keyneton Canary 11]

11 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

And if I'm not mistaken, reached four semi finals.

Of these six, Sir Alf Ramsey and Gareth Southgate are the only managers in charge for 

Even Australia beat Denmark in the last World Cup

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

On 19/06/2024 at 16:58, Canary73 said:

Hungarian national anthem is pleasant but somber - like a hymn. Germany always good.

Hungary's national anthem is quite literally a hymn.

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

Are people going to realise that the England players are not quite as good as they're hyped up to be, coupled by the fact we see them week in and week out...?

[ged in the onion bag 954]

Southgate    observations from the frindlies

He's achieved more than any other manager I can recall in 50 years.   

His problem is usually the midfield, sadly, we can't keep the ball against the best teams at that level.   That's down to the players available to him.   We've not got anyone technical enough for that role.   That's why we lost to Italy.     

His other problem right now is the lack of balance at left-back and he may regret not having a natural left-back available.    

What doesn't he have in him when he's managed to get us further than anyone else? 

we’ve never entertained, it’s always been tedious to watch.  
 

We will get through and improve through the tournament.   

These are all common threads through literally every tournament we qualify for..

Observations from the first two games….

Rice is our problem or rather the central midfield.    Sadly we don’t have anyone (not even Kalvin Phillips🤣) who can control the tempo of an international football match.   We need Rice’s combativeness but more technical quality.    Southgate hasn’t got that to introduce.    Consequently the forwards don’t get the same service (ball deliver on time and in the right areas) as they do at club level.   It’s a real issue that affects their ability to contribute what we are expecting.    We don’t have a Rodri, a Jorginho, Kroos, Rabiot or Kante so the only option is to change the style of play or hope confidence increases which it often does through the tournament.   

Bringing in Cole, Eze and / or Gordon won’t change the midfield tempo / control / quality problem.

Expectations are always too high and it’s always the managers fault.    Always!    
 

The balance on the left is a massive problem.    Should have taken a proper left back even one down the pecking order would have been better than this option.   
 

 

 

 

 

[TheGunnShow 7,126]

7 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

 

Southgate    observations from the frindlies

He's achieved more than any other manager I can recall in 50 years.   

His problem is usually the midfield, sadly, we can't keep the ball against the best teams at that level.   That's down to the players available to him.   We've not got anyone technical enough for that role.   That's why we lost to Italy.     

His other problem right now is the lack of balance at left-back and he may regret not having a natural left-back available.    

What doesn't he have in him when he's managed to get us further than anyone else? 

we’ve never entertained, it’s always been tedious to watch.  
 

We will get through and improve through the tournament.   

These are all common threads through literally every tournament we qualify for..

Observations from the first two games….

Rice is our problem or rather the central midfield.    Sadly we don’t have anyone (not even Kalvin Phillips🤣) who can control the tempo of an international football match.   We need Rice’s combativeness but more technical quality.    Southgate hasn’t got that to introduce.    Consequently the forwards don’t get the same service (ball deliver on time and in the right areas) as they do at club level.   It’s a real issue that affects their ability to contribute what we are expecting.    We don’t have a Rodri, a Jorginho, Kroos, Rabiot or Kante so the only option is to change the style of play or hope confidence increases which it often does through the tournament.   

Bringing in Cole, Eze and / or Gordon won’t change the midfield tempo / control / quality problem.

Expectations are always too high and it’s always the managers fault.    Always!    
 

The balance on the left is a massive problem.    Should have taken a proper left back even one down the pecking order would have been better than this option.   
 

 

 

 

 

Rice isn't really the problem IMO, but agree that there's a balance problem within the midfield - indeed I'd argue England are a pure destroyer short, but it doesn't help by not having a natural left-back until Shaw gets fully fit as attacking down that flank is severely hampered. I would argue that Kane-Bellingham-Foden needs two from three on the pitch even though man-for-man, they're three of England's best players as Foden really needs to come inside, but England then really have nothing on the left.

Said before that I'd go 4-3-2-1. Put Palmer (Foden) and Saka behind one striker, and reinforce the centre of the park. Rice, Wharton (Gallagher) and Bellingham should provide a nice balance of composure and combativeness in the engine room. If England suddenly think they need wingers, bring Eze/Gordon off the bench and send Saka out wider.

Little shout-out to Guehi - he's stepping up well under the circumstances.

Edited June 21 by TheGunnShow

[king canary 8,425]

4 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

 

Southgate    observations from the frindlies

He's achieved more than any other manager I can recall in 50 years.   

His problem is usually the midfield, sadly, we can't keep the ball against the best teams at that level.   That's down to the players available to him.   We've not got anyone technical enough for that role.   That's why we lost to Italy.     

His other problem right now is the lack of balance at left-back and he may regret not having a natural left-back available.    

What doesn't he have in him when he's managed to get us further than anyone else? 

we’ve never entertained, it’s always been tedious to watch.  
 

We will get through and improve through the tournament.   

These are all common threads through literally every tournament we qualify for..

Observations from the first two games….

Rice is our problem or rather the central midfield.    Sadly we don’t have anyone (not even Kalvin Phillips🤣) who can control the tempo of an international football match.   We need Rice’s combativeness but more technical quality.    Southgate hasn’t got that to introduce.    Consequently the forwards don’t get the same service (ball deliver on time and in the right areas) as they do at club level.   It’s a real issue that affects their ability to contribute what we are expecting.    We don’t have a Rodri, a Jorginho, Kroos, Rabiot or Kante so the only option is to change the style of play or hope confidence increases which it often does through the tournament.   

Bringing in Cole, Eze and / or Gordon won’t change the midfield tempo / control / quality problem.

Expectations are always too high and it’s always the managers fault.    Always!    
 

The balance on the left is a massive problem.    Should have taken a proper left back even one down the pecking order would have been better than this option.   
 

 

 

 

 

Largely agree with this but I do think our midfield issues aren't helped by the general set up of the team.

The defence is deep, this draws the two holding midfielders deeper and leaves us either as a team sitting far too deep or a giant gap in between Rice/TAA and the attacking quartet. 

Sitting deep can be fine if you're set up to play on the counter but Bellingham, Foden, Kane and Saka aren't counter attacking players. We need the defence to push up another 10/20 yards and not be so fearful of balls in behind (it isn't like Trippier, Walker and Guehi are slow!) and to close the gap between Rice/TAA and the attackers, meaning we can build up a bit easier and we can actually press as a team. 

It is so frustrating as it seems like we've set a defence up to play one way and the attack a totally different way with no sense of how they can join up. 

[Ken Hairy 4,210]

3 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

When he leaves the England job who’d want him at club level? Even most Championship clubs fans would be disappointed to see Southgate unveiled. 

I know a Gillingham fan who said he'd be furious if he ended up there. Genuinely think he's done as a manager once we get knocked out.

[The Raptor 1,476]

3 hours ago, dj11 said:

I was at the game last night, and from the very start the Danish fans were up for it. The England fans, myself included, were so subdued, and of course the football being dire doesn’t help. At one stage, Foden obviously got fed up with the way we were playing, and took on the defence and caused some chaos, and got the crowd going. He was one of the first to be subbed after AA. I think deep down Southgate is happy with the result, and that worries me. 

Was it your Norwich flag drapped behind the corner flag? 

[Google Bot 3,713]

3 hours ago, dj11 said:

I was at the game last night, and from the very start the Danish fans were up for it. The England fans, myself included, were so subdued, and of course the football being dire doesn’t help.

It wasn't clear on TV who was whistling and boo'ing as we were plodding the ball around, was it the Danish?  Or was there discontent from the England fans too?  I was watching on BBC, and commentators never made mention to it.

[ged in the onion bag 954]

We are set up to control the ball, but we can’t do it.    Agree Rice isn’t the problem as we have no alternatives, it’s his position that’s the problem…. We need the player to control the game and.tempo and he’s not that player.

The forwards are used to having that player that can move the ball quickly and positively and he is expected to be it.  He’s not sadly.   Not a criticism, he is effective in a different role for Arsenal.   

[Newtopia 564]

4 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

When he leaves the England job who’d want him at club level? Even most Championship clubs fans would be disappointed to see Southgate unveiled. 

Genuinely, he will not struggle to find a role.

[Newtopia 564]

I think it is the balance in midfield, and the width on the left.  Everything people say about Phillips (Not being good enough for Man City and being missed by England) is true.   I genuinely think Gareth needs to select the best defensive midfielder option we have, if that is Wharton, Gallagher, or even Bellingham, so be it.  At left back we are short of options, lets hope Shaw is ready.  Otherwise I would genuinely try Saka there, Trippier was so advanced during the games that Saka would be a better threat. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,787]

Why oh why did they leave the worlds best left back in Leif Davis at home 😭😭😭 

 

Think of the dominance we'd currently have with this future ballon D'or winner in the side!! 

 

 

 

In all seriousness though LB is a MAJOR issue and why on earth take an injured Shaw when you have other left backs available, yes Shaw is a great option when fit ( that's becoming increasingly less often ) but surely it's better to have a naturally left sided player there instead of shoe horning trippier into left back and expecting anything other than 2 right footers, down the left, cutting inside at every opportunity. 

 

The other being central mid, clearly TAA doesn't work there, not as a starter anyway, could he be a bench option to come on later in games when we need someone with a range of passing abilities to unlock a tiring defence? Absolutely think that's a decent enough assumption to make. But there's no way he should be starting games at center mid alongside rice. 

 

I would be leaning to towards having Rice + Bellingham next to each other, one sits and one pushes forwards when attacking, both have enough about them to break up play when defending. 

 

Then the 3 in front of those being 

Saka.         Foden.        Gordon/Palmer/Eze 

 

 

Edited June 21 by GodlyOtsemobor