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Dean Coneys boots

Did players WANT to lose?

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I keep reflecting on the horror story of the last game. And I just wonder if some of our players felt their future might be better served remaining in the champs not with promotion. They just showed no real fight or passion - it was all so half hearted. And much, much worse than when we played Leeds during the season. Or did they just choke? 

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Just now, Dean Coneys boots said:

I keep reflecting on the horror story of the last game. And I just wonder if some of our players felt their future might be better served remaining in the champs not with promotion. They just showed no real fight or passion - it was all so half hearted. And much, much worse than when we played Leeds during the season. Or did they just choke? 

I think they just choked.

However there is an additional element I've considered, that for the more experienced 'cultural leaders' in the squad- McLean, Duffy, Gibson, Hanley, Barnes- this was their absolute last chance to play a part in a PL squad. Several of them at least probably had an inkling that they would be replaced if promoted anyway.

All the more reason to be very thorough in the squad build this summer. Duffy, for example, I felt (especially early on) played like he was better than this level and almost doing us a favour. He's also got the drunk-driving the week of our biggest game of the season thing. Is he really going to find the motivation to really contribute to us moving forward?

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I think they just ran out of gas to be honest. Not really being able to rotate much down the stretch really did not help matters, and chuck in that a few were coming back from injuries and realistically, we were never physically going to be at our peak.

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There’s been multiple times this season where Wagner has set up a defensively poor team to try and withstand pressure, and it failed to. Leeds lack of intensity in game one was never going to be the same in game two. They came out the blocks and got the goal quickly. The second went in and the game was over. From that point onwards it was just awful. Big game players for us were carrying injuries or were just ineffective- and collectively we had our heads down as we were blown away by Leeds. 
 

If there were any players thinking they’d have more chance of continued employment in the championship, which personally I don’t think was the case - but fictionally speaking in response to your question - then they should still be worried about next season, as we need a broom to sweep away some of the 5hit we have. Particularly in defence. 

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Well there was no belief from Knapper that we would make the playoffs so consequently the plans from January were for another season in the Champs. Everything I saw pointed to a siege mentality to finish in the top six and after that ‘job done’. As I’ve said elsewhere I think making the play offs was probably a bit of an annoyance as the plans were already underway for a restart in the champs next season and could even have included input from someone lined up to replace Wagner. 

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That's interesting you have posted this as a mate of mine said the same thing,  that we went out to lose. 

Certainly Gunn could have made that decision,  although I doubt it,  by giving them 2 goals. 

It does make you wonder

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No , they wanted to win some would get hefty Bonuses if we went up ,also most players wages would go up also 

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34 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I think they just choked.

However there is an additional element I've considered, that for the more experienced 'cultural leaders' in the squad- McLean, Duffy, Gibson, Hanley, Barnes- this was their absolute last chance to play a part in a PL squad. Several of them at least probably had an inkling that they would be replaced if promoted anyway.

All the more reason to be very thorough in the squad build this summer. Duffy, for example, I felt (especially early on) played like he was better than this level and almost doing us a favour. He's also got the drunk-driving the week of our biggest game of the season thing. Is he really going to find the motivation to really contribute to us moving forward?

And it's telling that these older heads were bought in to apparently add steel this season, but contributed to a team that rarely recovered from conceding goals.

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Wagner looked defeated in his pre match interiview with Sky sports, and that was before a ball had even been kicked. Saying how we needed to try and stay in the match, he knew what was coming. Half the team weren't fit. 

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37 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I think they just ran out of gas to be honest. Not really being able to rotate much down the stretch really did not help matters, and chuck in that a few were coming back from injuries and realistically, we were never physically going to be at our peak.

Which is completely fair, but I don’t think it accounts for just how far off the pace we were. Leeds haven’t had many easier games all season.

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We had Sargent, Rowe and Barnes all not fully fit - this plays on players minds and not saying this was the major factor in our somewhat dire display any team playing with 3 injured players will struggle 

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We peaked at beating them down the road and never repeated the intensity or desire. Apart Preston away result were a bit meh! 

Once the first goal went in I don't think they had any belief they could turn it around. Plus key players not being fit...

We have to have a clear way of playing and bringing the youth on now. The last few season have seen a really disconnect with the fans and the style of play.

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Conspiracy theorists of the world please unite on this thread. Thank you. 

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16 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Which is completely fair, but I don’t think it accounts for just how far off the pace we were. Leeds haven’t had many easier games all season.

Think, in hindsight, it was clear from the Preston game afterwards that the team was running on fumes, and we just looked groggy against Brum.

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4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Think, in hindsight, it was clear from the Preston game afterwards that the team was running on fumes, and we just looked groggy against Brum.

I’m not sure I buy that professional athletes are that fatigued from games spaced out by a 5-7 days.

Even if so that’s on Wagner though. He could have rested players against Brum but his utter reliance on the same 11-12 players and refusal to give basically any minutes to anyone else is on him.

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1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

I’m not sure I buy that professional athletes are that fatigued from games spaced out by a 5-7 days.

Even if so that’s on Wagner though. He could have rested players against Brum but his utter reliance on the same 11-12 players and refusal to give basically any minutes to anyone else is on him.

Re. the bit in bold, you're right under normal circumstances, but fatigue catches up during a season and this was right at the back end of it. Think of it as a boxing match - shots you'd shake off easily in round 2 start hurting more in round 10 no matter how well conditioned you are. We had several coming back from injuries, increasing the load on others and at the same time by definition, the injured players weren't going to be completely sharp either.

Throw in the fact that we know from experience that Farke likes his teams to keep the ball and control the pace of a game that way, and we were always going to be chasing a bit.

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I kind of meant subconsciously rather than sitting down saying “hey let’s lose”. At the back of many minds in our team would be the haunting memory of previous prem campaigns, the fear you wouldn’t be picked a division above, the fear of being replaced… where the young guns of Leeds are hungry for the promised land 

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1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I keep reflecting on the horror story of the last game. And I just wonder if some of our players felt their future might be better served remaining in the champs not with promotion. They just showed no real fight or passion - it was all so half hearted. And much, much worse than when we played Leeds during the season. Or did they just choke? 

Jesus wept 

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I bet their wives and families are not happy with them deciding to throw upto a million pound down the drain in bonuses and wage increases.

Some like Gibson will now have to find a club and likely take a big wage cut.

Even if some were looking to move on to the EPL after that performance there will be serious questions about their ability to play under pressure.

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1 hour ago, daniel_grieff said:

And it's telling that these older heads were bought in to apparently add steel this season, but contributed to a team that rarely recovered from conceding goals.

We were third this season for winning points after going behind.

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Just now, Mr Angry said:

We were third this season for winning points after going behind.

How dare you come up with facts!

This season was odd - there’s lots of negative stuff to whine about if you choose (away form for instance), but also plenty of positives.  Finishing 6th with all that went on was definitely good going, at the start there were a lot who thought we’d finish closer to the bottom than the top.

 

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They certainly didn't go out to lose but some wanted it more than others. That will always happen; some happy where they are, some have better things possibly lined up and a few of them knew that was their last game for the club.

Essentially we put out one of our worst performances of the season, and Leeds didn't. 

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REsults over last 5 games showed we were about to continue on a Wagneresque run of defeats.  After the capitulation Wagner pointed out we were 13th last season that is true but was based on the lengthy run of defeats under his tutillage.  When he joined we were in a promising position soon snuffed out by Wagner.

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Exactly. I love the way the Wagner apologists point out our "recoveries" from bad positions that he took us to.

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6 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

They certainly didn't go out to lose but some wanted it more than others. That will always happen; some happy where they are, some have better things possibly lined up and a few of them knew that was their last game for the club.

Essentially we put out one of our worst performances of the season, and Leeds didn't. 

Reactions from certain players were interesting.

 

Rowe for example was in tears and almost breaking down after being subbed off.

 

Gunn on the other hand looked like he would rather be anywhere else and like he as about to fall asleep for much of the game.

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10 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

We were third this season for winning points after going behind.

No, that's fair. I was wrong about that, so I take back what I said, completely.

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2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I keep reflecting on the horror story of the last game. And I just wonder if some of our players felt their future might be better served remaining in the champs not with promotion. They just showed no real fight or passion - it was all so half hearted. And much, much worse than when we played Leeds during the season. Or did they just choke? 

That is a big problem with players at the end of their careers who have failed in the Premiership,  I can only believe that Webber bought them to stay in the championship and not go down again. There was no vision or ambition last summer. Webber should of went at the end of last season, and we should of started the rebuild then. We are now a year behind and unfortunately will lose some of the players who could of been part of it. 

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42 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Reactions from certain players were interesting.

 

Rowe for example was in tears and almost breaking down after being subbed off.

 

Gunn on the other hand looked like he would rather be anywhere else and like he as about to fall asleep for much of the game.

That's a funny take , Gunn knew what part he played , he was on his knees at the end. He started it off ,but at least thanks to him it wasn't 8 or 9. 

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2 hours ago, S_81 said:

There’s been multiple times this season where Wagner has set up a defensively poor team to try and withstand pressure, and it failed to. Leeds lack of intensity in game one was never going to be the same in game two. They came out the blocks and got the goal quickly. The second went in and the game was over. From that point onwards it was just awful. Big game players for us were carrying injuries or were just ineffective- and collectively we had our heads down as we were blown away by Leeds. 
 

If there were any players thinking they’d have more chance of continued employment in the championship, which personally I don’t think was the case - but fictionally speaking in response to your question - then they should still be worried about next season, as we need a broom to sweep away some of the 5hit we have. Particularly in defence. 

We were tactically destroyed,  they didn't have a clue what to do. 

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