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Is Wagner entitled to be annoyed?

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Rumours resurfacing that he was told some time ago so he knew the job finished at the season end.  Ties in with the pinkun report of going irregardless if promoted or not.

 

What's done is done amd we should look forward.

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5 hours ago, Deptford Yellow said:

I thought they’d at least leave it a day before announcing he was a gonna

Nah. If you're going to sack someone, get on with it when everyone's annoyed.

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3 minutes ago, ZLF said:

Rumours resurfacing that he was told some time ago so he knew the job finished at the season end.  Ties in with the pinkun report of going irregardless if promoted or not.

 

What's done is done amd we should look forward.

I don't think he was annoyed either. I think he knew and also knew that by finishing in the top six there were no clauses that would deduct anything from his settlement. If anything I think the powers that be were annoyed. It's interesting that Wagner was told he had an 11% chance of making the playoffs in January. He will leave with his head held high and his chest puffed out. 

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17 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't think he was annoyed either. I think he knew and also knew that by finishing in the top six there were no clauses that would deduct anything from his settlement. If anything I think the powers that be were annoyed. It's interesting that Wagner was told he had an 11% chance of making the playoffs in January. He will leave with his head held high and his chest puffed out. 

That smile with Farke at FT now looks more like a sense of relief that it was over. 

To Wagner's credit, had anyone said to us in the New Year we were a final day win away from finishing 5th, we'd have laughed. To some extent, the run since then has to have been because of, not in spite of Wagner. 

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7 hours ago, mrdi said:

That smile with Farke at FT now looks more like a sense of relief that it was over. 

To Wagner's credit, had anyone said to us in the New Year we were a final day win away from finishing 5th, we'd have laughed. To some extent, the run since then has to have been because of, not in spite of Wagner. 

Give Wagner the credit, but in reality, I think Josh Sargent was the reason. 

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Its not very often I wasnt pleased that a norwich  manager had left, probably only Lambert- Villa and Walker-Everton in the last 30 yrs.

Usually I'm glad because a manager has run ouf of ideas and/or is doing a bad job and its clear that their time has come to an end.

However with this, I'm not getting that feeling. Must confess to being a bit uneasy at this . Yes ,Leeds was a disaster but all in all, given Sargent was injured for half a season,Wagner did a good job in retrieving a top 6 place.

I'm certainly not dancing in the street at this as I have been with other managerial depatures.

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15 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Its not very often I wasnt pleased that a norwich  manager had left, probably only Lambert- Villa and Walker-Everton in the last 30 yrs.

Usually I'm glad because a manager has run ouf of ideas and/or is doing a bad job and its clear that their time has come to an end.

However with this, I'm not getting that feeling. Must confess to being a bit uneasy at this . Yes ,Leeds was a disaster but all in all, given Sargent was injured for half a season,Wagner did a good job in retrieving a top 6 place.

I'm certainly not dancing in the street at this as I have been with other managerial depatures.

It's best not to get too attached to a manager as they all run out of rope eventually. For me that was particularly difficult with Farke although at the time I thought his sacking was right. Wagner had severe limitations I felt but got next to no support with the Dad's Army signings in the summer and weakening the squad in January.

I agree the next appointment is absolutely critical. Get it wrong and we face years in the Championship if not worse. 

I admit to be hugely concerned with Knapper. I'd rather we had more experience in that role. I can't be impressed by him just because he isn't Webber. Time will tell. Good luck to him - prove the doubters wrong Ben!

Never a dull moment with NCFC.

 

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Next season will be interesting. Norwich will have new manager new identity. What happens if that doesn’t go well. Smith was sacked with the club in fifth and Wagner after a playoff defeat. What are the expectations for next season? Will the fans give the new dawn time or will there be moaning about playing it out from the back and if we lose two games on the bounce will be a crisis. I agree that the board, sporting director and manager will be on the same page but will the fans if we get a turgid season like 17/18.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Its not very often I wasnt pleased that a norwich  manager had left, probably only Lambert- Villa and Walker-Everton in the last 30 yrs.

Usually I'm glad because a manager has run ouf of ideas and/or is doing a bad job and its clear that their time has come to an end.

However with this, I'm not getting that feeling. Must confess to being a bit uneasy at this . Yes ,Leeds was a disaster but all in all, given Sargent was injured for half a season,Wagner did a good job in retrieving a top 6 place.

I'm certainly not dancing in the street at this as I have been with other managerial depatures.

Tend to agree with this. I worry that many fans will have unreasonably high expectations of any new 'pet' manager and yet fail to achieve what Wagner did and may well have done better with more support! The grass is not always greener.

It will be fully on Knapper's head (and job) now. Auto promotion next year (not just top 6) or bust!

 

Edited by Yellow Fever

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5 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Tend to agree with this. I worry that many fans will have unreasonably high expectations of any new 'pet' manager and yet fail to achieve what Wagner did and may well have done better with more support! The grass is not always greener.

It will be fully on Knapper's head (and job) now. Auto promotion next year (not just top 6) or bust!

 

I think my unease with Wagner was that it felt so short term, though this is an issue that I think predates him at the club. Since our first relegation under Farke it feels to me like we've gone year to year instead of any clear long term goal. That was more on display last summer with all the experienced players who came in. It's hard to envision a scenario where most of those players are better next year than this one as they're mainly in the decline phases of their career. Combine that with the end of parachute payments which means we will need to sell some of our better, and younger, players and the outlook is pretty bleak in my view. I don't think Attanasio is going to be keen on subsidising losses like that for too long, at least if there's more of a 'project' you can preach patience. 

As it stands I think we're going to be a worse side next year, but if we're a meaningfully younger side then I think that's a trade off. It's what Webber did in his first season here, and he was aided by a final year of parachute payments to make that transition easier. Maybe we could keep going year to year and have a good run, some may say that had Sargent not got injured we could have this year. I'm not sure I'd agree as the underlying numbers tend to point to us overachieving more than anything. I would look at Derby as a side who kept going for it and eventually it spiralled out of control, not to say that would happen to us but the sides who have got out of this league recently who aren't relegated PL sides tend to be the ones with more of a long term plan.

It seems like we're definitely going to be more in that long term build, similar to how we were in the first few Webber/Farke years. I'm not sure Wagner is much of a fit for that, certainly in this first year where developing young players may take precedence over results (within reason).

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Yes we can blame Wagner to an certain extent but the Webber can and should take the main blame and knapper can take some blame too and I afraid its going to get alot worse before its get better ie a few more seasons if we lucky mid table champs

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On 18/05/2024 at 07:51, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Give Wagner the credit, but in reality, I think Josh Sargent was the reason. 

In the sense that Sargent was essential to the way Wagner set up his team, and we had no one who could do what he did even at a much lower level, I agree that his return was the main reason things suddenly improved. But, as was true of Pukki, Sargent requires that we play one way only since his role is such a specialised niche. If we end up playing a different style under Knapper, a style which is based more on possession and close control, I'm not sure Sargent will be suited to it.

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Norwich was better for David Wagner than David Wagner was for Norwich. Wagner leaves having restored his reputation as a coach by getting us into the play offs after two really poor stints at Young boys and Shalke. 
 

Norwich on the other hand are in a worse off position now than when he took over. Our squad is thinner, our parachute payments have run out. We are still in the same league, we will most likely sell two of our star players in the summer to cover for the loss of parachute payments. Combine that with a mass exodus of players out of contract and a squad rebuild needed in the summer which works around the current constrains of work permit regulations it’s a tough one a real tough one. 

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I think Wagner knew the score months ago when Knapper arrived and as an experienced manager was willing to accept his fate hung on promotion, he's had his reputation restored somewhat and leaves with a year's salary in his pocket as a leaving present so he shouldn't be too annoyed. 

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1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

In the sense that Sargent was essential to the way Wagner set up his team, and we had no one who could do what he did even at a much lower level, I agree that his return was the main reason things suddenly improved. But, as was true of Pukki, Sargent requires that we play one way only since his role is such a specialised niche. If we end up playing a different style under Knapper, a style which is based more on possession and close control, I'm not sure Sargent will be suited to it.

Possibly. IMO, when you have a player as good as Sargent is at this level.. you play to his strengths. Doesn’t mean it can’t be pretty football… but if knapper wants a Rolls Royce forward, Sarge isn’t it. I know what I’d want, and that’s a fit Sarge playing 46 games next season 🤞

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