Goobdye Sam McCallum.

[Midlands Yellow 4,704]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Well so they'd have us believe. But I think it's fair to say that they improved the team and helped get last years mid table losers into the playoffs. Perhaps people have forgotten just how bad we were at the end of last season.

Good point, even though we were favourites to win it 22/23.

[Sufyellow 250]

8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Well so they'd have us believe. But I think it's fair to say that they improved the team and helped get last years mid table losers into the playoffs. Perhaps people have forgotten just how bad we were at the end of last season.

How does data led , pick up potential? Who's the best out of dimi and McCallum? I expect dimi , but then who's got a future. Where do you put ambition and the future into a database.  Apart from a couple of signings , none were for the future of the club , just the here and now. We were just about as bad as we were middle of this season when injuries hit a few player. 

[nutty nigel 7,963]

39 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

How does data led , pick up potential? Who's the best out of dimi and McCallum? I expect dimi , but then who's got a future. Where do you put ambition and the future into a database.  Apart from a couple of signings , none were for the future of the club , just the here and now. We were just about as bad as we were middle of this season when injuries hit a few player. 

I don't know so have an open mind about it all tbh. I reckon it's going to be like what my Mum used to give us for tea...

Wait and see pudding 🙃

[chicken 3,135]

9 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Correct. Skipp has NEVER been replaced and we are still suffering. 

Skipp was never ours.

We never replaced Tettey or Johnson for that matter, with long term quality.

Mulumbu, Forshaw, Hayden, Normann, Trybull, Reid were all brought in to be replacements of various kinds. Skipp and Reid were good, but not ours so outstanding for a season then off.

[chicken 3,135]

8 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

How does data led , pick up potential? Who's the best out of dimi and McCallum? I expect dimi , but then who's got a future. Where do you put ambition and the future into a database.  Apart from a couple of signings , none were for the future of the club , just the here and now. We were just about as bad as we were middle of this season when injuries hit a few player. 

I imagine in partnerships perhaps. When you look at the players Barnes has partnered and who had succeeded, he has made a good foil over the years.

Duffy is another. If he's so woeful, what were the much louded Brighton doing with him?

We wanted more physicality so we weren't pushed around so much. We certainly got that. Hopefully the youngsters learnt some game management too along the way?

[nutty nigel 7,963]

On 18/05/2024 at 18:31, nutty nigel said:

Was Hwang data led?

@repman

[repman 808]

On 18/05/2024 at 18:31, nutty nigel said:

Was Hwang data led?

No idea!

I think the thing with him (and SVH too) is that you're looking for a player who was easily available on loan in the last day or two of the transfer window, that's going to whittle down your options quickly.

Especially too if you take in Wagner's preference for experience, that would remove any possible PL youngster type coming in.

In general the whole point of data led signings has sort of passed, back in 2018 when we were using data to identify Buendia we were one of the few clubs doing so. Nowadays every club has recruitment analysts doing this sort of thing, that means the edge we once had has gone. Finding bargains is harder than ever, what is important to avoid are manager led signings as these are generally done based on reputation or very brief looks.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

18 minutes ago, repman said:

No idea!

I think the thing with him (and SVH too) is that you're looking for a player who was easily available on loan in the last day or two of the transfer window, that's going to whittle down your options quickly.

Especially too if you take in Wagner's preference for experience, that would remove any possible PL youngster type coming in.

In general the whole point of data led signings has sort of passed, back in 2018 when we were using data to identify Buendia we were one of the few clubs doing so. Nowadays every club has recruitment analysts doing this sort of thing, that means the edge we once had has gone. Finding bargains is harder than ever, what is important to avoid are manager led signings as these are generally done based on reputation or very brief looks.

Last summer our data people went over to Milwaukee supposedly to learn from The Brewers. Over there they create their own data rather than use what everyone else can access. Apparently that’s the plan here. Webber was on board with that so let’s hope that’s something that’s been happening over the six months since Knapper came in. 
All last summers transfers were signed off by Attanasio and that will remain to be the case regardless of how many other investors are on board. As has been pointed out they were different to Webbers previous signings but what’s been ignored is they helped to turn last season’s no hopers into a top six side.

Edited May 19, 2024 by nutty nigel

[Mason 47 2,006]

23 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

As has been pointed out they were different to Webbers previous signings but what’s been ignored is they helped to turn last season’s no hopers into a top six side.

For sure, the players we brought in helped us become more in-line with the tactical approach we were pursuing. You only need compare strikers- Sargent has managed 16 in 26 this year, compared to Teemu Pukki's 10 in 41 the previous year. 

The key questions ahead of the management decision on Friday I think would amount to, is this style of football something we want for Norwich long-term? And will it/can it bring long-term success? I think the answer to both would have been no.

All of this adds up to some ferociously important decisions for Knapper this summer. Reassuringly, on their Wagner Sacked stream, the Pinkun boys were enthusiastic about the meticulous and considered manner in which BK makes decisions. It gives me hope that we have indeed been machinating next seasons plan for a long while now. I think the moves will come thick and fast.

[Fen Canary 1,462]

On 19/05/2024 at 05:31, nutty nigel said:

Was Hwang data led?

Yep, it was Number Hwang 

[Nuff Said 6,033]

On 18/05/2024 at 21:49, Sufyellow said:

Data led is so worrying,  stats are absolutely rubbish. Sara I expect has brilliant stats but does he really dominate a midfield.  Tettey was the 2nd best passer in the club when we got promoted.  

Yeah! That internal combustion engine will never catch on either.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Nuff Said

[littleyellowbirdie 3,147]

i can only think Attanassio must be getting ready to get his cheque book out.

[repman 808]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Last summer our data people went over to Milwaukee supposedly to learn from The Brewers. Over there they create their own data rather than use what everyone else can access. Apparently that’s the plan here. Webber was on board with that so let’s hope that’s something that’s been happening over the six months since Knapper came in. 
All last summers transfers were signed off by Attanasio and that will remain to be the case regardless of how many other investors are on board. As has been pointed out they were different to Webbers previous signings but what’s been ignored is they helped to turn last season’s no hopers into a top six side.

I think the key learning from the Brewers will be how to use data to influence on pitch decision and performance. Using data in recruitment isn't really groundbreaking anymore. Obviously there will always be opportunities to learn and improve processes but the next revolution in the sport will be how do we apply data to improve the team through playing style/tactics, not just by signing better players. 

As to your point about turning us into a top 6 side, I agree but I think the key with this is that it was a relatively short term solution. Look at the players who joined last summer. Hwang, Forshaw and Batth are already gone and lots on here are seemingly ready to move on from Barnes and Duffy too. As long as we're in the championship I don't think we will continue to go year to year like we did this season. Promotion to the PL is extremely hard and simply buying your way out of the league isn't possible. I guess it's possible Attanasio will be willing to spend big in the hope of promotion but it would be out of step with how the Brewers are run.

With the Brewers he likes to take what I think he's called the 'bites of the apple' approach, where they look to avoid any rebuild and instead remain competitive year in year out. What that means for example was just this past winter, the Brewers traded away their number 1 pitcher, Corbin Burnes, for 2 younger players + an extra draft pick. Burnes will hit free agency at the end of this season (and probably sign a contract worth well over $200 million, which the Brewers would never hand out). The 2 players who came back aren't eligible for free agency until 2030, now there's no guarantee either will be better than Burnes, but over the next 6 seasons they'll be able to contribute more than what Burnes could.

Although I'm sure Attanasio was signing off any transfer last summer it wouldn't shock me if he was remaining reasonably hands off, I think he will have a vision of how he wants the club to be run (ie like his baseball team) but as far as I know he's not an owner who gets involved in decision making. He will let the SD run the club, but crucially now he has his own man in charge.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,244]

On 18/05/2024 at 14:50, BigFish said:

I think you'll find his book value is zero

Perhaps I used the wrong term. What I mean is, he is an asset we paid 3m for, so releasing him is a loss to the club of 3m, as opposed to a player we sell or whom we acquired for free who do not represent a loss leaving on a free

[BigFish 2,330]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Perhaps I used the wrong term. What I mean is, he is an asset we paid 3m for, so releasing him is a loss to the club of 3m, as opposed to a player we sell or whom we acquired for free who do not represent a loss leaving on a free

I take your point sir, but the difference in modern football post Bosman is the asset/liability is the players contract, not the player or indeed the fee paid. This will have been written off over the duration of his contract so has already been amortised and included in the accounts. Bottom line is the club don't think he is good enough. Now that is a different argument 🙂 

[repman 808]

Looking at Sorensen signing for 1 year plus an option I wonder if McCallum was offered similar but he wanted a longer commitment. He'll certainly be able to get that from someone else in this league I would think.

Starting to think we may be trying to clear the decks massively this summer.

[BigFish 2,330]

5 minutes ago, repman said:

Starting to think we may be trying to clear the decks massively this summer.

Pretty much what we should have done last season. Although it could just be a change of tactics. @Bethnal Yellow and Green has suggested that a lot of teams use a CB in their rest defence. The plus wingbacks may mean that we are not intending to play advanced full-backs like this season.

[Ward 3 496]

On 17/05/2024 at 16:12, cambridgeshire canary said:

Seems his wish to stay here at the club has been declined.

 

 

On 17/05/2024 at 16:12, cambridgeshire canary said:

Seems his wish to stay here at the club has been declined.

 

Good he's awful