Goobdye Sam McCallum.

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

15 hours ago, mrdi said:

If we're to also part with Dimi, so be it. I like him, but I'm sure he's very expensive for a LB who gets hooked on 65 minutes every single week. 

he was taken off about 10 times before the 80th minute in the last couple of seasons and a lot of them were after returning from injury.

[BigFish 2,330]

22 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Player with a book value of 3m. Mind you didnt we pay 6.5m for Giannoulis?

I think you'll find his book value is zero

[nutty nigel 7,963]

2 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

It's still Webbers squad Nutty,  it's now time for Knapper to show us what he can do. Unfortunately we have Barnes and Duffy now, can we afford to get replacements in on top of their wages.

Barnes and Duffy were stats based signings. As was Foreshaw. It’s like they fed into the computer what was wrong last season and the computer said Barnes, Duffy and Foreshaw could address that. I get that. And to be fair Barnes and Duffy helped get us top six.

Now we go a new way but will it still be stats led? Perhaps we’ve refined the search parameters since last year…

[repman 808]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Barnes and Duffy were stats based signings. As was Foreshaw. It’s like they fed into the computer what was wrong last season and the computer said Barnes, Duffy and Foreshaw could address that. I get that. And to be fair Barnes and Duffy helped get us top six.

Now we go a new way but will it still be stats led? Perhaps we’ve refined the search parameters since last year…

There's no way they were data-led signings. Wagner had significant input into the signings and the players he wanted he got. The issues Barnes, Duffy and others were brought into address was a lack of experience and to make us 'nastier'. That's the sort of thing you can't measure statistically. There may have been statistical arguments made as to why these signings made sense, but they certainly wouldn't have been the pick of the recruitment team. They will always tend to look for younger players who have much better long term projections, Sainz was the only one in a first team capacity last season (and Fisher but he was initially an u21 signing I think).

[Europe_93 51]

On 17/05/2024 at 16:31, g00se said:

I know the director of football and coach relationship and roles are different to a board and a manager - but surely you would have thought they may have waited for the new head coach to look some of the players over before releasing them? Less so the older expensive players - but certainly the younger ones on less wages.

We don’t know who it is yet but it is not totally out of the realm of possibility that the incoming coach has been consulted, on the assumption that he has already been identified.  I firmly believe that the decision on Wagner was known a good while back - he had a one year rolling contract so that Knapper could get his own man.

[Europe_93 51]

31 minutes ago, repman said:

There's no way they were data-led signings. Wagner had significant input into the signings and the players he wanted he got. The issues Barnes, Duffy and others were brought into address was a lack of experience and to make us 'nastier'. That's the sort of thing you can't measure statistically. There may have been statistical arguments made as to why these signings made sense, but they certainly wouldn't have been the pick of the recruitment team. They will always tend to look for younger players who have much better long term projections, Sainz was the only one in a first team capacity last season (and Fisher but he was initially an u21 signing I think).

But the need for experience was genuine and when a manager only has a year contract evidently his focus will be on results not strategy and player development.   

[Yobocop 1,476]

On 17/05/2024 at 16:27, Ulfotto said:

Although I get the sentiment of clearing decks. Releasing a relatively young left back who has good experience in the Championship seems a pretty brain dead decision to me.

Whilst I get the angle you’re driving at it may not have been the clubs decision 

[nutty nigel 7,963]

58 minutes ago, repman said:

There's no way they were data-led signings. Wagner had significant input into the signings and the players he wanted he got. The issues Barnes, Duffy and others were brought into address was a lack of experience and to make us 'nastier'. That's the sort of thing you can't measure statistically. There may have been statistical arguments made as to why these signings made sense, but they certainly wouldn't have been the pick of the recruitment team. They will always tend to look for younger players who have much better long term projections, Sainz was the only one in a first team capacity last season (and Fisher but he was initially an u21 signing I think).

Was Hwang data led?

[FenwayFrank 2,719]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Was Hwang data led?

Does Hwang size matter ?

[nutty nigel 7,963]

2 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Does Hwang size matter ?

Not with Fitz Hall.

[chicken 3,138]

1 hour ago, repman said:

There's no way they were data-led signings. Wagner had significant input into the signings and the players he wanted he got. The issues Barnes, Duffy and others were brought into address was a lack of experience and to make us 'nastier'. That's the sort of thing you can't measure statistically. There may have been statistical arguments made as to why these signings made sense, but they certainly wouldn't have been the pick of the recruitment team. They will always tend to look for younger players who have much better long term projections, Sainz was the only one in a first team capacity last season (and Fisher but he was initially an u21 signing I think).

The only problem with this is that it contradicts previous arguments that Webber made more decisions than the previous managers.

Data/stats doesn't mean that they are signed on those alone. I suspect them being on frees was an important factor as well.

Forshaw was a flop. Got shot early thankfully. Duffy, I think, could do with a pacier partner. Gibson isn't that, neither is Baath. I suspect Hanley wont be either after his injury.

The way we capitulated at the end of last season was 100% about not having the experience or the games managing that experience and some robustness should give you.

We still lack 1st team players in the peak period of their career which is why it's no surprise to me we are being linked to some 26-28yr olds.

Youth is fine, but you need a balance. Two experienced CBs with little pace when asking your full backs to push up? Leaves it open, very open. Just think how we love to see Rowe and Sainz exploiting the channels and then cutting inside. As Leeds did.

Need to sort our defensive game out. 

 

 

[Disco's Stepover 18]

This is another decision that will come to haunt us. Bali Mumba all over again. The quicker that the Smiths relinquish their stranglehold and pass control to someone who can see beyond the bottom of the wine list, the better. This is a real opportunity for a clean slate and for the club to demonstrate that they have an ambitious future. 

[repman 808]

4 minutes ago, chicken said:

The only problem with this is that it contradicts previous arguments that Webber made more decisions than the previous managers.

Data/stats doesn't mean that they are signed on those alone. I suspect them being on frees was an important factor as well.

Forshaw was a flop. Got shot early thankfully. Duffy, I think, could do with a pacier partner. Gibson isn't that, neither is Baath. I suspect Hanley wont be either after his injury.

The way we capitulated at the end of last season was 100% about not having the experience or the games managing that experience and some robustness should give you.

We still lack 1st team players in the peak period of their career which is why it's no surprise to me we are being linked to some 26-28yr olds.

Youth is fine, but you need a balance. Two experienced CBs with little pace when asking your full backs to push up? Leaves it open, very open. Just think how we love to see Rowe and Sainz exploiting the channels and then cutting inside. As Leeds did.

Need to sort our defensive game out. 

 

 

I think the key thing to remember is Webber had handed in his notice in March.

Webber in his whole time at the club had not signed an outfield player over 30 permanently, last summer we signed 4/5 as well as giving new contracts to Kenny and Onel who both are over 30 too.

Last summer was essentially Webber and Wagner's last dance, Webber himself was essentially giving up the long-term to leave on a high point. Similarly it was probably a favour/apology to Wagner of sorts for essentially leaving the job when he'd only brought him on board months earlier. From Wagner's perspective he probably knew the only way to really keep his job with a new SD coming in would be if the results were good, especially once you take into account the poor end to the previous season.

I agree with your point about a lack of peak age players, unfortunately they're often the most expensive to come by so that's why you have to go for pre or post peak players instead.

[hogesar 10,954]

It seems a bit bad business to lose 2 championship quality left-backs for nothing, particularly when other areas of the squad need more work.

[Taylor324 36]

Good with his head, has a long throw in him, great first touch and can take the ball out of the air better than anyone - he's young ...hes a keeper for sure 

[sgncfc 1,345]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

It seems a bit bad business to lose 2 championship quality left-backs for nothing, particularly when other areas of the squad need more work.

Surely we won't let them both go? Both are capable enough at Champs level, but we don't need both as first choice on first choice wages, we need one of them and an adequate back up option (which might be Sorensen).

[JamieNorfolk 85]

Haven't seen anything official on this, is it normal to not? I saw Borja post on Facebook saying he's going to miss Sam. 

[Branston 58]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

The only problem with this is that it contradicts previous arguments that Webber made more decisions than the previous managers.

Data/stats doesn't mean that they are signed on those alone. I suspect them being on frees was an important factor as well.

Forshaw was a flop. Got shot early thankfully. Duffy, I think, could do with a pacier partner. Gibson isn't that, neither is Baath. I suspect Hanley wont be either after his injury.

The way we capitulated at the end of last season was 100% about not having the experience or the games managing that experience and some robustness should give you.

We still lack 1st team players in the peak period of their career which is why it's no surprise to me we are being linked to some 26-28yr olds.

Youth is fine, but you need a balance. Two experienced CBs with little pace when asking your full backs to push up? Leaves it open, very open. Just think how we love to see Rowe and Sainz exploiting the channels and then cutting inside. As Leeds did.

Need to sort our defensive game out. 

 

 

Since Skipp left absolutely no cover for the defence. Only player who showed any composure at Leeds was Gibson . Only player to move the ball forward as well . A weak midfield has been our Achilles heel for the last two seasons. 

[Indy 3,499]

8 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Great stuff Indy. I hope you feel better for that. 

However your daft decision on McCullum was not made by me or the other people in your post.

I worry a little about the direction we’re headed towards what I see as over reliance on stats. Let’s hope my worries are unfounded.

I couldn’t care less just had an amazing day at Wembley! Oxford are up!

Maybe we can nab young McCallum & Sorense

[vos 176]

On 17/05/2024 at 16:27, Ulfotto said:

Although I get the sentiment of clearing decks. Releasing a relatively young left back who has good experience in the Championship seems a pretty brain dead decision to me.

I agree with the many pundits who think this youngster has a bit of potential and with the right coach could make a decent full back. He is far better than Ginnallouis going forward and crossing, plus his long throw. It is a fact that the current style of full back does leave large gaps and it is essential you have mobile centre backs, or a Skipp, to cover. One of Wagner's big faults was that he never took steps to deal with this but simply allowed numerous crosses to come in to our eventual detriment.

[astro 423]

Maybe our new coach plays three at the back? 

[Nik Vawn 344]

decent young player, surprised to see him go

[Midlands Yellow 4,714]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

I couldn’t care less just had an amazing day at Wembley! Oxford are up!

Maybe we can nab young McCallum & Sorense

Did Oxford take many to Wembley? Will definitely try to get to the away match, beautiful city. 

[Sufyellow 250]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Was Hwang data led?

Data led is so worrying,  stats are absolutely rubbish. Sara I expect has brilliant stats but does he really dominate a midfield.  Tettey was the 2nd best passer in the club when we got promoted.  

[Indy 3,499]

30 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Did Oxford take many to Wembley? Will definitely try to get to the away match, beautiful city. 

34,000 estimated a total crowd of 70k great atmosphere and grand day out, making a weekend or it in London.

[nutty nigel 7,963]

25 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Data led is so worrying,  stats are absolutely rubbish. Sara I expect has brilliant stats but does he really dominate a midfield.  Tettey was the 2nd best passer in the club when we got promoted.  

Proof will be in the pudding. But we know Attanasio loves data. Our people have been over there getting to grips with baseball data. The plan is for us to have our own data. The summer transfer window was data led but not with our own. And Attanasio signed off all the signings and intends to carry on doing so however many investors he gets on board. Interesting times...

[Soldier on 299]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Proof will be in the pudding. But we know Attanasio loves data. Our people have been over there getting to grips with baseball data. The plan is for us to have our own data. The summer transfer window was data led but not with our own. And Attanasio signed off all the signings and intends to carry on doing so however many investors he gets on board. Interesting times...

Can’t believe the likes of Duffy and Barnes were data led were they ?

[yellowrider120 933]

1 hour ago, vos said:

I agree with the many pundits who think this youngster has a bit of potential and with the right coach could make a decent full back. He is far better than Ginnallouis going forward and crossing, plus his long throw. It is a fact that the current style of full back does leave large gaps and it is essential you have mobile centre backs, or a Skipp, to cover. One of Wagner's big faults was that he never took steps to deal with this but simply allowed numerous crosses to come in to our eventual detriment.

Correct. Skipp has NEVER been replaced and we are still suffering. 

[nutty nigel 7,963]

Just now, Soldier on said:

Can’t believe the likes of Duffy and Barnes were data led were they ?

Well so they'd have us believe. But I think it's fair to say that they improved the team and helped get last years mid table losers into the playoffs. Perhaps people have forgotten just how bad we were at the end of last season.

[Midlands Yellow 4,714]

13 minutes ago, Indy said:

34,000 estimated a total crowd of 70k great atmosphere and grand day out, making a weekend or it in London.

Excellent turnout.