Retain , Release, Sell and Loan

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,710]

On 17/05/2024 at 12:17, ron obvious said:

I think the transfer estimates are way OTT. 

I suspect Sara, Sarge & Rowe aren't really PL standard, mainly through inconsistency.

Sara looks a world beater, then comes up against a decent team like Leeds & disappears. It would be interesting to recap his performances against the top teams in this division.

Rowe is an absolute baller but gets shunted out of games too easily. probably has the most potential of the three though, as he can unlock a game against a packed defence.

Sarge is just not the same player since his injury. He may recover, but he seems to have lost whatever touch he had & in large part he has reverted to the player we had in the PL, for which he was not good enough.

In short any of those players would be a bit of a gamble for a PL club, & as such they're unlikely to pay top money for any of them.

Seriously, hope I'm wrong though.

I’m sorry, but this is rubbish. His goals per minute this season is insanely good, possibly best in the league. Look at our form with and without him, he brings more than just goals. Sarge is a better player than when we were last in the EPL.. but does need to shake this injury over the summer.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,710]

On 17/05/2024 at 13:37, Year of the tiger said:

Rowe & Gunn one year left on contracts. If they are not signing new deals then sell

Wouldn’t miss either tbh. If it got us £20-25 million, I’d be delighted. 

I’d wager there will be little interest in Gunn, actually. As Norwich fans, we massively overate him. There’s serious flaws there, which were exposed at Southampton and will not go unnoticed by professional scouts. His level is with us. 

[Branston 58]

On 17/05/2024 at 10:37, 7HAR1980 said:

Big big trouble if we're relying on Duffy! 

Or Hanley . Only decent CB leaving .

[Branston 58]

On 17/05/2024 at 11:16, CDMullins said:

Anything less than

Rowe £20m including English Tax

Sara £15m

Tzolis £5m

 

Would be properly little old Norwich.

No way we would get anything like those figures . Especially if they watched them at Leeds. 

Lucky to get £10m for Rowe . 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,486]

8 minutes ago, Branston said:

No way we would get anything like those figures . Especially if they watched them at Leeds. 

Lucky to get £10m for Rowe . 

Luckily, teams scout players based on more than just their last game. 

I think £15m - £18m is achievable for Rowe if more than one club are interested. 

Sara is easily a £20m player. 

There are some concerns about how much money Prem teams have to spend with PSR kicking in for many. But don’t think the above valuations are unrealistic in the current market. 

[Fen Canary 1,464]

We’ve just finished 6th, and got the parts of the season where we had the bulk of the first team fit (start and after Christmas) our form was close to automatic promotion. Therefore I don’t think the squad is in need of drastic overhaul, just a few players so we’ve got options off the bench. A couple of high earners such as Gibson and Dimi could probably be replaced more cheaply but I don’t think we need a radical overhaul 

[Google Bot 3,995]

17 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I think £15m - £18m is achievable for Rowe if more than one club are interested. 

I think any club tracking Rowe would be quite happy to sit back and see how he develops and then grab him on a free end of next season - tempting him with good wages.

As I see it, there's question marks in regards to his injury record, his general stamina in-game, and the ability to play a consistent role as part the team.  Space is at a premium at prem league, and even at this level it sometimes feels like a detriment to the greater good of the team,  his inclusion seems more based on what he can deliver in those magical moments.

That said, a new coach and new approach he could be incredible next season.  Question is do we get him to commit to an extension before investing further into him fearing that he'll likely want out when there is interest?

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Wouldn’t miss either tbh. If it got us £20-25 million, I’d be delighted. 

Really?! 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,710]

13 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Really?! 

Yeah.. I think £15 million is Rowes value, and Gunn £5 million. Anything above is a bonus IMO.

[Soldier on 299]

25 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I think any club tracking Rowe would be quite happy to sit back and see how he develops and then grab him on a free end of next season - tempting him with good wages.

As I see it, there's question marks in regards to his injury record, his general stamina in-game, and the ability to play a consistent role as part the team.  Space is at a premium at prem league, and even at this level it sometimes feels like a detriment to the greater good of the team,  his inclusion seems more based on what he can deliver in those magical moments.

That said, a new coach and new approach he could be incredible next season.  Question is do we get him to commit to an extension before investing further into him fearing that he'll likely want out when there is interest?

They wouldn’t be able to do that as we have a year option so basically 2 years left

[Besthorpe-48 116]

On 17/05/2024 at 12:00, Jim Smith said:

I would try and get away with selling just Rowe, Idah and Tzolis to raise cash if we can.

I would want to keep the rest of our stars. Whatever people think we shouldn’t be selling more than two of them.

id keep McCullum and Sorensen as they are useful and the latter is versatile. 

I’d persist with Fassnacht and hope he’s a “second season” developer. 

I’d ditch SVH, Gibson, Baath and Gianoulis. 
 

 

There had to come a day when I broadly agreed with Jim Smith. As Bethnal has said where does attanasio fit in with all this? He hasn't invested in the club to watch the best players being sold. 

I really don't think more than 1 sale will  be needed if MA comes to the table and maybe not even that.

 

[HazzaJet 275]

On 17/05/2024 at 20:45, andyc24_uk said:

In my opinion: (*=first team squad for next season)

GOALKEEPERS
*Gunn - Top Championship goalkeeper, Keep him as we'll struggle to find better without spending huge money

Long - No idea why we ever bought him in the first place. Release on a free

*Barden - Good enough to be 3rd choice or backup in the Championship

Reyes - Needs a season out on loan at a decent level if he's going to develop

Rose - Loan out for one more season but probably not good enough

Mair - Not good enough, move on

McCracken - Not good enough, move on

DEFENDERS 

*Hanley - Not going to be able to shift him and if he can recover from injury, can still do a job as backup. 

Gibson - Not good enough, won't be missed. 

Duffy - Hopefully we can terminate his contract if/when he's convicted. If we can't, honestly I'd pay up his contract and get rid.

Giannoulis - Good player but probably time for him to move on, both for his career and our wage bill.

*McCallum - Really hope we keep him, I've been impressed over the second half of the season and I think there's a good player there.

*Stacey - Best defender we have. 

Batth - Why on earth did we sign him?! Release on a free.

Fisher - Probably needs a loan to L1 or bottom end Champs team.

*Montoia - Seems highly rated, if McCallum stays loan him out, if not then keep him and give him games as backup.

*Warner - Looked good on loan; get him in and around the squad as a backup/rotation option

*Hills - Same as Warner

Tomkinson - Not really shone on loan, give him one more loan season to see if he can make it

Shipley - Loan out 

MIDFIELDERS 

*McLean - Still not a big fan but we need some continuity and leadership so keep him on

*Hernandez - Like with Kenny, we need a couple of players who've been here a while to be leaders in the locker room even if only bench options on the field. Keep for another year.

*Sorensen - Useful option in multiple positions. Keep him (and wrap in cotton wool for pre-season)

*Gibbs - Needs to step up and prove he's got what it takes, hopefully new manager's style lets him do that.

*Nunez - Capable of a lot more in the right system - hopefully will get the chance to shine next season.

*Sara - Obviously want to keep him but realistically can't see it happening. Hope we play hardball and get good money for him.

Springett - Hasn't shown anything in the matches he's played to suggest he's anywhere near Championship standard. Loan out or let go.

*Sainz - One of the brightest spots of this past season. Key player next campaign.

Riley - Loan out again.

Clarke - Loan out again.

Fassnacht - Decent enough bench option if he stays but Wagner's boy and wouldn't be a big loss if someone wanted him.

Lima - Seems pretty average for the U23s; yet to see anything worth spending big money on but worth the gamble if he's cheap.

Welch - Loan out

FORWARDS 

*Sargent - Keep at all costs, unless medical results show something long-term serious. 

Barnes - If anyone will take him on a free, let him go. Nobody will pay money for him and he doesn't offer much. 

*Rowe - Would love to keep him and I think if he goes to the Premier League he could end up getting lost in someone's reserve team and never really hit the levels he looks capable of. Probably out of our hands though honestly.

Idah - Has had multiple chances here and it's just never worked out for whatever reason. Seems to be working for him at Celtic, so a permanent move there seems like a no-brainer where everyone's a winner.

*Tzolis - Controversial but if Dusseldorf don't want to/can't afford to sign him I'd actually bring him back in and see what he can do under a new manager. Clearly has skills and goals in him, but needs motivating and pushing in the right direction.

*Kamara - Hopefully a regular player for us next season. We need to get back to trusting in youth and he's looked excellent out on loan.

Aboh - Would love him to stay and I could see him having a breakout season next year but looks like his head has been turned. 

Van Hooijdonk - Clearly going back to Bologna, unless the new manager takes a shine to him. Weird one as Knapper presumably saw something in him to bring him in, but Wagner very obviously didn't want him.

Shopping list: 3xCB; 1xLB; 2xDM; 1xAM; maybe a striker.

I agree with most of your opinions, but there’s a few I don’t:

Gunn - Certainly keep if we can as I think we’ll struggle to find a decent replacement. However, he only has one year left, so if he doesn’t sign a new contract we will have to try and sell him

Duffy - Will cost us quite a lot to pay off his contract. If he gets jailed then maybe, but if we’re able to keep him I would keep as we need to keep some experienced players and I think he’s the best out of him, Gibson and Hanley

Sorensen - Out of contract but has the option of extension. I would also keep but by doing so I would activate the extension clause and see how he does first rather than offering a new contract straight away

Tzolis - Try and get rid. A return might limit Kamara’s game time. A departure would make space for another foreign player 

Barnes - Keep. Has worked quite well with Sargent this season, who’s also said that he’s been helping him develop. Homegrown as well

Idah - Debatable. I agree with your reason for departure, but if he goes we his replacement would really have to be homegrown

 

[Serinus canaria 32]

3 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Luckily, teams scout players based on more than just their last game. 

I think £15m - £18m is achievable for Rowe if more than one club are interested. 

Sara is easily a £20m player. 

There are some concerns about how much money Prem teams have to spend with PSR kicking in for many. But don’t think the above valuations are unrealistic in the current market. 

I also wonder with the end of the parachute payments is it plausible that we will need to sell all the family silver which weakens our bargaining position?

[7HAR1980 137]

9 hours ago, Branston said:

Or Hanley . Only decent CB leaving .

Wouldn't call any of our CB decent to be honest.

[andyc24_uk 79]

8 hours ago, HazzaJet said:

I agree with most of your opinions, but there’s a few I don’t:

Gunn - Certainly keep if we can as I think we’ll struggle to find a decent replacement. However, he only has one year left, so if he doesn’t sign a new contract we will have to try and sell him

Duffy - Will cost us quite a lot to pay off his contract. If he gets jailed then maybe, but if we’re able to keep him I would keep as we need to keep some experienced players and I think he’s the best out of him, Gibson and Hanley

Sorensen - Out of contract but has the option of extension. I would also keep but by doing so I would activate the extension clause and see how he does first rather than offering a new contract straight away

Tzolis - Try and get rid. A return might limit Kamara’s game time. A departure would make space for another foreign player 

Barnes - Keep. Has worked quite well with Sargent this season, who’s also said that he’s been helping him develop. Homegrown as well

Idah - Debatable. I agree with your reason for departure, but if he goes we his replacement would really have to be homegrown

 

Fair enough @HazzaJet - You make some good points.

I think if we get a good offer for Gunn then cashing in makes sense, but if it's any less than say £7-10m the benefit of having a good 'keeper this season probably outweighs the financial loss of him potentially leaving on a free (and if we got promoted which is more likely with him than without, he'd hopefully be happy to stay)

I'd somehow missed Sorensen having an extension clause - 100% agree, trigger that then and reassess next summer.

Can't agree with you on Duffy - I think Hanley is much better player when fit and a much better human being all round. Just depends on if he's ever going to make a full recovery from a nasty injury, I guess.

Tzolis - Fair point, I'm more interested in seeing Kamara develop than Tzolis and if we can get decent £££ for him then yes let him go. I still think there's a player there though if he's coached right.

Barnes - Has had games where he's looked OK, and yes seems to have a good relationship with Sargent, but also has looked like a donkey on too many occasions IMHO. I won't be overly upset if he's still here next season, but would still rather get his wages off the bill if there's any possibility of doing that.

Idah - Yeah, I agree about finding a homegrown replacement. Maybe the best solution is to let him go to Celtic and then throw a chunk of that money Aboh's way to convince him to stay? 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,710]

Always surprised by the amount of supporters writing Duffy off. I must be wrong.. but i think he’s a decent defender at this level and I wouldn’t get rid. Our ability to defend set pieces is much improved with him in there, we just need a better ball playing centre half next to him. 

West Brom at home, Southampton at home.. two games where Duffy stands out and won us points.

[DraytonBoy 256]

I think much will depend on who the new manager/coach is and how he likes to play, those out of contract will likely go regardless so then you're looking at the older squad members to see whether they're a 'fit' - Duffy, Barnes, Hanley, Hernandez, McLean, Fassnacht and Long are all over 30 with most on good money which will also be a factor given the club need to lower the wage bill.

Interesting few weeks ahead.

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

10 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Yeah.. I think £15 million is Rowes value, and Gunn £5 million. Anything above is a bonus IMO.

It was more the suggestion that we "wouldn't miss either". Both have shown that when not in the side and at their best, they are massively missed. 

[HazzaJet 275]

1 hour ago, andyc24_uk said:

Fair enough @HazzaJet - You make some good points.

I think if we get a good offer for Gunn then cashing in makes sense, but if it's any less than say £7-10m the benefit of having a good 'keeper this season probably outweighs the financial loss of him potentially leaving on a free (and if we got promoted which is more likely with him than without, he'd hopefully be happy to stay)

I'd somehow missed Sorensen having an extension clause - 100% agree, trigger that then and reassess next summer.

Can't agree with you on Duffy - I think Hanley is much better player when fit and a much better human being all round. Just depends on if he's ever going to make a full recovery from a nasty injury, I guess.

Tzolis - Fair point, I'm more interested in seeing Kamara develop than Tzolis and if we can get decent £££ for him then yes let him go. I still think there's a player there though if he's coached right.

Barnes - Has had games where he's looked OK, and yes seems to have a good relationship with Sargent, but also has looked like a donkey on too many occasions IMHO. I won't be overly upset if he's still here next season, but would still rather get his wages off the bill if there's any possibility of doing that.

Idah - Yeah, I agree about finding a homegrown replacement. Maybe the best solution is to let him go to Celtic and then throw a chunk of that money Aboh's way to convince him to stay? 

I have similar views on some of your points there too Andy:

Tzolis - I won’t be too bothered if he stays, as I don’t think he’s too bad on the pitch either

Barnes - Just like you won’t be too upset if he stays, I won’t be too upset if he goes either, as he’s 34 and I reckon he’s one of our highest earners

Idah - If Celtic make a bid for him they’re only rumoured to offer us about £5-6m. Strikers are the most expensive players, and homegrown players are even more. If he goes I certainly think it would be worth trying to use some of the cash to try and convince Aboh to stay as there you’ve got a homegrown player who will cost nothing in transfer fees and still be on low wages, although with no first team experience Aboh would really have to go out on loan for the season. If we do manage to keep Aboh and sent him out on loan, maybe try and sign someone on loan from a PL club as cover for the season?

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Barnes was a one-season impact before retirement. I can understand the relatively high wages as he performed the role he was brought in for. The two-year contract was barmy.

I'll bet Knapper is finding any way possible to unload the player. Maybe the Duffer as well.

The only players that I would seriously be upset to lose, youngsters apart (inc. McCallum, Gibbs) would be Sargent, Sara, Nunez, Stacey and Saintz. The loss of others like Gunn and Rowe at a price might be a case of being more valuable off the books than on it. 

While two stalwarts in Kenny and Argos could well be worth keeping, but hardly represent that clean sweep.

"Meh" players like Sorensen, Long, Fassnacht, Springett won't be missed.

Gio and Gibson are out of expensive contracts thank god.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,710]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

It was more the suggestion that we "wouldn't miss either". Both have shown that when not in the side and at their best, they are massively missed. 

Was Rowe missed? Our form has been poor since he returned. He certainly isn’t missed in the way Sargent it. 

Gunn? When Long is the replacement, anybody would be missed.

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

34 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Was Rowe missed? Our form has been poor since he returned. He certainly isn’t missed in the way Sargent it. 

Gunn? When Long is the replacement, anybody would be missed.

I would say Rowe was missed. You don't lose a player that's contributed twelve goals and two assists without missing him. 

And it wasn't that Long was all that poor, he just wasn't at the exceptional level that Gunn kept. So yes - he was missed too. 

[Newtopia 583]

51 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Was Rowe missed? Our form has been poor since he returned. He certainly isn’t missed in the way Sargent it. 

Gunn? When Long is the replacement, anybody would be missed.

I agree he didn’t have the impact when he came back, but I thought he simply wasn’t fully fit.   Playing Sara on the right kind of worked fine.

[Wimbledoncanary 39]

Looks like all out of contract will be released apart from Soro. Maybe he will be out new left back 😝

[chicken 3,138]

10 minutes ago, Wimbledoncanary said:

Looks like all out of contract will be released apart from Soro. Maybe he will be out new left back 😝

Will be inreresting to see if it's a new deal for Sorensen or just the activation of his one year extension. I say that, because bar the run at left back where other options were injured, he's not held down a place and hasn't looked consistant in any of the positions he has played for more than a couple of games. I can only imagine that he is inexpensive and the club feel that he fills a role, squad wise, that would otherwise require another expense to replace.

[ZLF 346]

I have assumed its the one year extension, his wage is acceptable and he becomes the sub for multiple defensive positions; allowing more attackers incl youngsters to be on the bench

[Rivvo 265]

23 hours ago, sgncfc said:

I guess we'll find out soon enough, but imo Sara isn't as good as any of the players you mention so £20m would be up there with our best ever deals.

I mean he was our only player in the Championship team of the season, so people clearly rated him as one of the four best midfielders in the division.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,710]

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I would say Rowe was missed. You don't lose a player that's contributed twelve goals and two assists without missing him. 

And it wasn't that Long was all that poor, he just wasn't at the exceptional level that Gunn kept. So yes - he was missed too. 

I don’t think you can say Rowe was missed when our form improved hugely during his absence. He’s a great player, but easily replaced IMO.

[chicken 3,138]

20 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I don’t think you can say Rowe was missed when our form improved hugely during his absence. He’s a great player, but easily replaced IMO.

It wasn't that he was 'easily replaced' but more that it coincided with the the return of Sargent, Barnes and Sainz.

I think if he had continued in the vein he was in we'd have given Leeds a better run for their money.

[SwindonCanary 457]

keep the same team they did as good as the play off's  then improve it buy some bargans