Credit where due

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

With play offs seemingly secured, we should give credit where due. David Wagner - a head coach I called to be replaced at the end of last season, the start of this season and at various points during this season - and his staff have achieved probably the best NCFC season come back since Alex Neil took over and led us to play off success.

Just 3 league defeats in the whole of 2024 is an incredible achievement and goes to show that sometimes backing a manager can lead to success. Hats off to him, and let's hope he can now finish the incredible job with a successful trip to Wembley. 

[Coneys Knee 1,050]

I agree. The guy deserves credit and respect for the turnaround. He also deserves some sympathy for the terrible injury problems that been such a pain in the backside.

He deserves his name to be sung again imo.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

I said after Sargent was injured on game 4 and then Barnes on game 7, the best we could hope from that point was to still be within touching distance of the playoffs when they returned, fortunately we just about were via some rocky terrain throughout Autumn and thd run of results from December to now has been impressive and one of the best in the leagùe

Those injuries, together with a few others along the way, i.e Gunn, Rowe,Sainz and others at various points certainly hampered Wagner's first half of the season but he's done a good job in retrieving it in the second half

Edited April 28 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

A manager who nevertheless managed to make the worst of his injury problems.

[Capt. Pants 5,010]

Yes credit where it's due. He also had zero support in the January transfer window.

If he can get us promoted with seemingly one fit striker it would be a quite remarkable achievement.

[AJ 1,359]

From the list of injuries, if we had have had Sargent, Rowe and Hanley fit all season there's no doubt we would have picked up an extra 3 or 4 wins which would definitely have put us into the mix with the leading pack. Given our form since the new year it's a shame we had that slump down into the mid table. I've not been Wagner's biggest fan for sure, but he's certainly done a good job to get us into the playoffs from there. Still question a large amount of his tactical decisions though, even yesterday where his subs made us look very ordinary and quite possibly cost us two points... But hey ho, at least we've got something to cheer. 

[Danke bitte 1,154]

He can also pull off the colour beige effectively - I saw him last Weds near St Stephens car park dressed head to toe in shades of beige. The guy owned it. Must be the salt n pepper hair?! 

[DraytonBoy 251]

Wagner has tweaked the style of play somewhat to make City harder to beat and I wonder whether Knapper has played a part in this since his arrival late last year. I still question the substitutions at times and am not sure Wagner is the right coach for the PL but you can't argue with the turnaround in 2024.

[Fen Canary 1,456]

1 hour ago, DraytonBoy said:

Wagner has tweaked the style of play somewhat to make City harder to beat and I wonder whether Knapper has played a part in this since his arrival late last year. I still question the substitutions at times and am not sure Wagner is the right coach for the PL but you can't argue with the turnaround in 2024.

I love the way people are so anti Wagner they’ll desperately try and give Knapper the credit for our good run of form despite no evidence he’s had anything to do with it, except signing Sydney van Honkytonk of course 

[hogesar 10,765]

Had Knapper sacked Wagner upon arrival and got a new guy in who then delivered the same results Wagner has, this forum would universally be hailing the decision as god-like and the new manager the next Farke in waiting.

That's the reality of how good a job he's done to turn it around.

Hes kept the players onside throughout the really rough times which is probably one of the hardest things - fans booing the team for passing the ball at the back at home earlier in the season and the players went with the coach instead of our fans (thank the lord).

He has then, after getting over the horrible injuries we've had to critical players and positions,  had to navigate post January without a suitable substitute Striker and with less first team players to pick from when injuries started to build up again.

Of course, some went so hard in on Wagner that they won't go back, it's always seemed like a weird online ego-protection thing for me. For what it's worth, I thought it was worth rolling the dice and changing manager after Blackburn at home so I was also wrong. More than happy to acknowledge it though...

[Crafty Canary 547]

A Wagner Cycle of results you might say 😇

[chicken 3,086]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

From the list of injuries, if we had have had Sargent, Rowe and Hanley fit all season there's no doubt we would have picked up an extra 3 or 4 wins which would definitely have put us into the mix with the leading pack. Given our form since the new year it's a shame we had that slump down into the mid table. I've not been Wagner's biggest fan for sure, but he's certainly done a good job to get us into the playoffs from there. Still question a large amount of his tactical decisions though, even yesterday where his subs made us look very ordinary and quite possibly cost us two points... But hey ho, at least we've got something to cheer. 

We've had Rowe, Sainz, Barnes, Sargent, Hanley, Hernandez, Sorensen out for long periods as well as Gunn, Duffy, Giannoulis, for shorter periods.

I think it's been nothing short of brilliant. I liken it to Lambert or Farke being without Holt&Hoolahan or Pukki&Buendia going forwards, but we've actually had more missing. 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Had Knapper sacked Wagner upon arrival and got a new guy in who then delivered the same results Wagner has, this forum would universally be hailing the decision as god-like and the new manager the next Farke in waiting.

That's the reality of how good a job he's done to turn it around.

Hes kept the players onside throughout the really rough times which is probably one of the hardest things - fans booing the team for passing the ball at the back at home earlier in the season and the players went with the coach instead of our fans (thank the lord).

He has then, after getting over the horrible injuries we've had to critical players and positions,  had to navigate post January without a suitable substitute Striker and with less first team players to pick from when injuries started to build up again.

Of course, some went so hard in on Wagner that they won't go back, it's always seemed like a weird online ego-protection thing for me. For what it's worth, I thought it was worth rolling the dice and changing manager after Blackburn at home so I was also wrong. More than happy to acknowledge it though...

It took you until the 4th paragraph for you to get around to your pet subject but without mention of the name SVH hoggy. However i cannot believe that Wagner had no input into the situation with the departure of Idah in January or the loan of SVH unless of course he just knocked on Wagner's door at Colney and introduced himself and said' Hi Mr Wagner i am your replacement for Adam and Mr Knapper has asked me to introduce myself '.

[chicken 3,086]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

It took you until the 4th paragraph for you to get around to your pet subject but without mention of the name SVH hoggy. However i cannot believe that Wagner had no input into the situation with the departure of Idah in January or the loan of SVH unless of course he just knocked on Wagner's door at Colney and introduced himself and said' Hi Mr Wagner i am your replacement for Adam and Mr Knapper has asked me to introduce myself '.

I don't think he was first choice though Tilly. We had confirmed interest in loaning Kieffer Moore too. May have been a case of SVH being a longer term target we could get in on loan sooner.

Just a loose bit of deduction, but Knapper said he wanted to brung the age of the squad down. What if it was felt Idah needed regular game time to get himself into prime position to take over from Barnes who could be one they shift on in the summer and SVH is being introduced now so he's had more than just a pre-season?

Leitner, Hernandez and Rupp were all brought in like that. Giannoulis too, all had a bigger impact their first full season as a result.

[essex canary 622]

I have to credit Zoe for masterminding this turnaround since Stu has been off the scene and for creating the confusion re Sydney.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Had Knapper sacked Wagner upon arrival and got a new guy in who then delivered the same results Wagner has, this forum would universally be hailing the decision as god-like and the new manager the next Farke in waiting.

That's the reality of how good a job he's done to turn it around.

Hes kept the players onside throughout the really rough times which is probably one of the hardest things - fans booing the team for passing the ball at the back at home earlier in the season and the players went with the coach instead of our fans (thank the lord).

He has then, after getting over the horrible injuries we've had to critical players and positions,  had to navigate post January without a suitable substitute Striker and with less first team players to pick from when injuries started to build up again.

Of course, some went so hard in on Wagner that they won't go back, it's always seemed like a weird online ego-protection thing for me. For what it's worth, I thought it was worth rolling the dice and changing manager after Blackburn at home so I was also wrong. More than happy to acknowledge it though...

The passing out from the back is an interesting one as, lets be honest, we are still not that great at it, I lost count of how many times Duffy/Gibson gave the ball away by following team orders. I know Wagner made it a "cultural thing", but you can understand the frustration from the stands when we put ourselves under pressure when we (frequently) get it wrong.

Not sure what the answer is as this is part of the modern game, I am certainly not an advocate of just lumping it forward, however sometimes that really is the best option............

[Capt. Pants 5,010]

55 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

It took you until the 4th paragraph for you to get around to your pet subject but without mention of the name SVH hoggy. However i cannot believe that Wagner had no input into the situation with the departure of Idah in January or the loan of SVH unless of course he just knocked on Wagner's door at Colney and introduced himself and said' Hi Mr Wagner i am your replacement for Adam and Mr Knapper has asked me to introduce myself '.

But Wagner was a bit reckless yesterday bringing on the unfit Barnes, who lasted about 10 mins. SVH was given an insulting 40 secs and even then that was after Nunez was tried in the hole. I'm not saying he wasn't complicit in allowing Idah to leave but crikey he's treating SVH with almost contempt at the moment. It doesn't seem to me he's on the same page as Knapper with that one.

[essex canary 622]

1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

But Wagner was a bit reckless yesterday bringing on the unfit Barnes, who lasted about 10 mins. SVH was given an insulting 40 secs and even then that was after Nunez was tried in the hole. I'm not saying he wasn't complicit in allowing Idah to leave but crikey he's treating SVH with almost contempt at the moment. It doesn't seem to me he's on the same page as Knapper with that one.

Idah has 14 goals in 2,200 minutes for his 2 clubs this season, SVH 1 goal in 500 minutes.

[hogesar 10,765]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

It took you until the 4th paragraph for you to get around to your pet subject but without mention of the name SVH hoggy. However i cannot believe that Wagner had no input into the situation with the departure of Idah in January or the loan of SVH unless of course he just knocked on Wagner's door at Colney and introduced himself and said' Hi Mr Wagner i am your replacement for Adam and Mr Knapper has asked me to introduce myself '.

You could be right but he seems to totally opposite to what Wagner wants in a striker and he even said as much yesterday - claiming he wanted Nunez as he could actually close down the opposition.

It could be that they thought they could make him fit enough but even then he doesn't have any of the attributes you'd expect from a Wagner striker.

[canarybubbles 2,199]

In terms of how he has turned the results around, Wagner deserves enormous credit. I'm starting to think the nice guy persona is totally fake, though. You don't humiliate a player in the way he has humiliated SVH, putting him on with 15 seconds on the clock. Unless there is something behind the scenes we don't know about, his treatment of SVH looks utterly scummy. I know managers have to be ruthless but you don't rub someone's nose in the dirt.

 

[Jim Smith 2,610]

20 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

With play offs seemingly secured, we should give credit where due. David Wagner - a head coach I called to be replaced at the end of last season, the start of this season and at various points during this season - and his staff have achieved probably the best NCFC season come back since Alex Neil took over and led us to play off success.

Just 3 league defeats in the whole of 2024 is an incredible achievement and goes to show that sometimes backing a manager can lead to success. Hats off to him, and let's hope he can now finish the incredible job with a successful trip to Wembley. 

I will credit him for turning things around when it looked like he was on the way out and our season was falling apart. He’s a nice bloke and I admire the way he stuck it out.

However I still do not rate him and think he should be replaced next season regardless of scat happens now. The last two home games have starkly illustrated the shortcomings in his coaching and tactics. Two sides with inferior players yet it was really obvious watching the games that they are better drilled and coached than us. I genuinely think that with s better coach we could have been in contention for the automatic places albeit i accept injuries did hinder us. 

 

 

[non-scoring strikers 153]

7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I will credit him for turning things around when it looked like he was on the way out and our season was falling apart. He’s a nice bloke and I admire the way he stuck it out.

However I still do not rate him and think he should be replaced next season regardless of scat happens now. The last two home games have starkly illustrated the shortcomings in his coaching and tactics. Two sides with inferior players yet it was really obvious watching the games that they are better drilled and coached than us. I genuinely think that with s better coach we could have been in contention for the automatic places albeit i accept injuries did hinder us. 

 

 

Agree with this. 

And lets not forget the away form absolutely stinks. I think we’ve had 6 away wins all season. For a promotion chasing club that just isn’t good enough.

I don’t know if its been mentioned already but why take Sainz off with 25 minutes to go yesterday? He was really getting into the game then he was hooked. I’d wager if he stayed on we might've found another goal.

Edited April 28 by non-scoring strikers

[hogesar 10,765]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

In terms of how he has turned the results around, Wagner deserves enormous credit. I'm starting to think the nice guy persona is totally fake, though. You don't humiliate a player in the way he has humiliated SVH, putting him on with 15 seconds on the clock. Unless there is something behind the scenes we don't know about, his treatment of SVH looks utterly scummy. I know managers have to be ruthless but you don't rub someone's nose in the dirt.

 

I think the fact the entire squad kept with him during the terrible times with fans booing simple passes etc suggests he isn't faking anything,  everything I've been privy too is that the players love playing for him.

[Fen Canary 1,456]

7 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

The passing out from the back is an interesting one as, lets be honest, we are still not that great at it, I lost count of how many times Duffy/Gibson gave the ball away by following team orders. I know Wagner made it a "cultural thing", but you can understand the frustration from the stands when we put ourselves under pressure when we (frequently) get it wrong.

Not sure what the answer is as this is part of the modern game, I am certainly not an advocate of just lumping it forward, however sometimes that really is the best option............

I’m with you here, it always scared the life out of me under Farke and it still does now. I know it’s a continental thing about keeping the ball at all costs but when you’ve got second division defenders who aren’t exactly Messi on the ball it’s not good for the heart rate 

[norfolkngood 1,174]

10 hours ago, hogesar said:

Had Knapper sacked Wagner upon arrival and got a new guy in who then delivered the same results Wagner has, this forum would universally be hailing the decision as god-like and the new manager the next Farke in waiting.

That's the reality of how good a job he's done to turn it around.

Hes kept the players onside throughout the really rough times which is probably one of the hardest things - fans booing the team for passing the ball at the back at home earlier in the season and the players went with the coach instead of our fans (thank the lord).

He has then, after getting over the horrible injuries we've had to critical players and positions,  had to navigate post January without a suitable substitute Striker and with less first team players to pick from when injuries started to build up again.

Of course, some went so hard in on Wagner that they won't go back, it's always seemed like a weird online ego-protection thing for me. For what it's worth, I thought it was worth rolling the dice and changing manager after Blackburn at home so I was also wrong. More than happy to acknowledge it though...

Hog i agree with all what you have said my only gripe was Wagner never found a formation / way of playing / tactic switch to get best out of the players when Sarge was injured ,

 

i believe a better manager might have , changed something tried someone else to play there changed to suit the players who were fit until Sarge came back and found a solution , 

it was  Bad until Sarge came back and wonderful since could we have picked up some points in that period by doing something different 

That is my only gripe , he was sold down the river with Idah and getting SVH 

 

he has done very well since those days and like you said if he was a new Manager knapper picked he would be a magician i just wonder about those dark days before the turn around 

 

[S_81 1,101]

I was going to start a thread like this once the play offs were complete for us, but seems no point in reinventing the wheel - so I’ll say now I was wrong about Wagner when I said he wouldn’t get us into the plays offs. Bar a major major disaster from the team and him, he has. 
I also said he wouldn’t get us promoted. And I believe I’ll be right on that, but hope I’m wrong. 
 

I desperately wanted him sacked. We looked appalling. Regardless of injuries, his tactics and subs were making it worse. I still think at times he’s guilty of that. 
But in saying so I’m not detracting from the achievement in the second half of the season. The form has been consistent and we’ve climbed the table as such. 
 

He deserves to stay in the role. Whether I think we can do better is a different matter. I still have reservations about how far we can get with him in charge. But he’s proved me wrong thus far and I hope he does so again. 

[wcorkcanary 4,784]

16 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

but you don't rub someone's nose in the dirt.

 

tthere's quite a few that enjoy doing exctly that to Ethics, it all depends on the so called 'victims' attitude.

[essex canary 622]

Why not hang out to dry someone who is actually achieving whilst leaving all the muppetts who have no idea how to achieve anything in place? It is the promoted to the point of incompetence logic.

[Canarywary 123]

18 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

In terms of how he has turned the results around, Wagner deserves enormous credit. I'm starting to think the nice guy persona is totally fake, though. You don't humiliate a player in the way he has humiliated SVH, putting him on with 15 seconds on the clock. Unless there is something behind the scenes we don't know about, his treatment of SVH looks utterly scummy. I know managers have to be ruthless but you don't rub someone's nose in the dirt.

 

I was wondering if such a late sub was time-boosting tactic? If a ref is supposed to add 30 secs on per substitution, if we could get one done in 5 seconds, we'd add 25 seconds of bonus time for one more attack? This is most probably a nonsense theory though.

[Nuff Said 5,964]

18 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

In terms of how he has turned the results around, Wagner deserves enormous credit. I'm starting to think the nice guy persona is totally fake, though. You don't humiliate a player in the way he has humiliated SVH, putting him on with 15 seconds on the clock. Unless there is something behind the scenes we don't know about, his treatment of SVH looks utterly scummy. I know managers have to be ruthless but you don't rub someone's nose in the dirt.

 

I don’t get this at all. What do you want Wagner to do if he thinks SVH is pants? Not play him at all? Because I’m fairly sure most players would take even a few minutes on the pitch over none.