BOARD WON'T SACK WORTHY AS THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE

[BRAVEHEART 0]

The reason I think the board aren''t going to sack the manager just yet is because i think they are looking at the bigger picture. And by this I mean his overall track record. Lets think about the time Worthington has been at the club hes been here in total 6 years. This year is his 6th year now if you think about each season hes been here this is his record below;

1st Season saved us from relegation                   - good season

2nd Season got us to the play-off final               - good season

3rd Season finished 8th                                    - bad season

4th Season got us promotion to the premiership  - good season

5th Season relegation from the premiership         - bad season

6th Season failed to gain a play-off place            - bad season

 > 3 OUT OF 6 - GOOD SEASONS

 > 3 OUT OF 6 - BAD SEASONS   

So by looking at Worthingtons record we can see he''s had 3 bad seasons and 3 good which is average could of been better but it hasn''t, could of been worse but hasn''t so overall i think hes done an average job. Which is why i think the board are going to wait another season to see which way the scales tip in terms of his overall record in his time here. The way that i see it is that Worthington could either have another poor season like this one or he could have a good season and gain us promotion. I think it''s a 50/50 as to whether or not Worthington will do better next season, because i don''t think that it is right for fans to assume that just because this season has been bad the next one will, next season is a fresh start i''m prepared to give him a chance.

Next Season from a statistical point of view will in my view make or break Worthingtons future at Norwich City. Because if he has a bad season that will mean 4 bad seasons and 3 good seasons i.e. 3/7 which would tip Worthingtons record towards a poor overall record. But then it could happen the other way around, we just don''t know. Which is why I am prepared to wait 1 more season just to see which way the scales tip.  

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Well I admire your patience but unfortunately next season is critical for us and if we get it wrong it will set the club back a decade as we will have to sell off all the highly paid players and will be back to square one again.

 

I do not have any faith whatsoever that this man can turn it around - he simply has not imporved as a manager from when he first took over. Then I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on the basis that he would learn. now i am not prepared to do that.

[morty 0]

Good post, it is important sometime to take a step back from everything and like you say"look at the bigger picture" however, prepare for hysterical replies a plenty!! We are all disappointed with the season but it is important to see the progress we have made in recent times under Worthy. Cue comments about "Hoofball" etc!!! 

[Yellow Rages 0]

Could you just go over that one more time.

I didn''t quite get it. Damn this detailed analysis

[The Walking Man 13]

And you also have to take into account where the club was before Worthington took over....

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

Well I admire your patience but unfortunately next season is critical for us and if we get it wrong it will set the club back a decade as we will have to sell off all the highly paid players and will be back to square one again.

 

I do not have any faith whatsoever that this man can turn it around - he simply has not imporved as a manager from when he first took over. Then I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt on the basis that he would learn. now i am not prepared to do that.

[/quote]With respect, this post (which is excellent and provacative by the way) is not about what you think or what I think but what the Board thinks.  There are plenty of other boring Worthy In/Out threads. 

I actually agree with you Jim and there is another thread about whether Worthy has irreparably damaged his relationship with the fans which reflects your view and mine.  However, the one thing which ruins this site is threads going off course and back to the same tiresome what we think arguments.

We do need to discuss what the Board thinks and why!!

[BRAVEHEART 0]

Basically Yellow Rages Nigel Worthington has been at Norwich for 6 years now, this one being his 6th year. And in those 6 years hes had 3 good and 3 bad which is average. So i am saying that we should wait one more season just to see which way the scales tip, its a 50/50 chance of him having a good or bad, whatever happens will determine Worthingtons future at Norwich City. Because Mathematically 7 is an odd number and you can''t share 7 between 2 which is why his record will either add up as a good one or a bad one.

[percyvarco 0]

The only reason I have ever heard for keeping Worthy is his past record. I want  to look forward to seeing NCFC as a footballing side with some direction and vision for the future. We will not achieve this with Worthy. His race is run.

My fear is that the board will look at our season and see that we will / have finished just outside the play offs and will say, Oh dear he tried well, just think what could have happened if there was less injuries and those nasty fans didn''t keep complaining, best we keep him on as I am sure that we will do better next year and he is a very nice man. "same time for lunch on Sunday" says Delia, "Thank you, me and Mrs Worthy are looking forward to it as we do every week" replies Nigel. Bet Delia''s puddings aren''t as stale as the footy Nigel serves up!

 

[Salopian 1]

How much of the promotion season was due to the manager? Granted he did encourage the board to sign Hux, and he did eventually, play 4-3-3, but my impression was that often it was the sheer brilliance of Hux, others playing out of their skin on occasions, and a very mean defence, which achieved the result. There was little sign of brilliant tactics otherwise.If you reduce the Worthington contribution in the promotion season, he has failed to set things alight for four seasons. How much longer will he have?

[Rossi 0]

two things; if you cant put two good seasons together you will always be relegated after promotion, secondly performances, personnel and money spent are conveniently absent - not knocking the post tho.

[We need a Manager 0]

Anybody thinking Norwich will get promotion with the players Worthington is signing is seriously deluded ,  its just not going to happen again untill this fool of a Manager is sacked .

[TheMarshmallowMan 0]

I think basing opinions on past performance is both dangerous and idealistic.

Yes, Worthy has done well for us; yes, Worthy has turned a team from a bottom 10 to a (even this season) top 10 team. But at the end of the day, football is about performance and progress, and this season both performance and progress are factors that has been abundantly lacking.

Take Wolves. Since relegation, they have struggled. Under Hoddle, they have spent quite alot and play unattractive, poor football. They get their fair share of beatings, but they also - when they click - get their fair share of good wins too.

As a result, the Wolves fans - alot like many of us - are calling for Hoddle''s head. Yeah, they''re never going to be relegated. They''re not even that far away from the play offs.  But the fans haven''t seen the progress or the performances to make them realise that the club is going in the right direction.

IMO, this is where we''re at. It''s gone stale. It''s all well and good saying "Yeah, but Worthy''s done this and this and this" - but those things are long past, and left is a team simply stagnating without either the progress to suggest things will get better, or the performances to keep people genuinely entertained and wanting more.

[0 0]

So the last two have been bad seasons, and 3 of the last 4 have been bad seasons going by what you say, which in my book, means sacking.

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Canary Braveheart - excellent, reasoned post, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have serious doubts about Worthy stepping up a level but I believe one more season with him would not be unreasonable - a la Curbishly, Mclaren. Pardew etc.

The main problems are the level of expectation, which are ridiculous. If you''d have checked this board 18 months ago, the majority of fans were saying ''we''ll probably go straight back down from the Prem but that''s ok''.

Now most are saying our Prem year was a mess, despite the fact that with a fully fit squad (and Ashton, belatedly) we showed we could compete.

Of course, we should have signed players that allowed us to go back up, but we didn''t. People must accept this, and allow Worthy to atone for that next season. It can''t always go right. The suggestion that he is deliberately hurting this club (as is often written on this board) is ludicrous.

Also, I haven''t seen ONE realistic, practical suggestion as to what happens after Worthy. If

Some fans - most whom seem to inhabit this message board - seem determine to destabilise the club at whatever cost. We have had a bad season, but we need to give it a chance to get better next season. They are behaving like we are about to go down and into liquidation, which is exactly what will happen if they force Delia out of the club. If you were her, wouldn''t you start wondering why you bother?

We owe this club stability, and Worthy one more chance to learn from his mistakes. He is still a young manager, and he is not Bryan Hamilton.

[Dionysus 0]

[quote user="King Juan of Spain"]

Of course, we should have signed players that allowed us to go back up, but we didn''t. People must accept this, and allow Worthy to atone for that next season. It can''t always go right. The suggestion that he is deliberately hurting this club (as is often written on this board) is ludicrous.

[/quote]

If I truly believed that Worthy planned to atone for his mistakes then I might feel a little better about next season. Admitting that he had made some would be a start.

Unfortunately I believe that some of Worthy''s flops from this season are still part of his first-team plans for next. Andy Hughes, in particular. If the club could guarantee to me that the likes of Hughes, Colin, Robinson, Thorne and Etuhu are not part of Worthy''s first-team plans for next season than I may renew my season ticket with a bit more enthusiasm.

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

"If the club could guarantee to me that the likes of Hughes, Colin, Robinson, Thorne and Etuhu are not part of Worthy''s first-team plans for next season than I may renew my season ticket with a bit more enthusiasm."

You say that but of all those players, Hughes was really the only truly questionable signing at the time. Etuhu has massive potential - we all know that he hasn''t settled yet, which isn''t uncommon. Thorne, on his previous form, was surely a half decent signing as a bench striker but his injuries this season have probably finished him off. Robinson was needed to shore up midfield when we had so many injuries and Colin may well need a while to fit into the English game. Helveg needed time, and he had 88 international caps.

Unfortunately Worthy seems determined to have a Gary Holt - and Hughes fitted the bill.

I think he''s been fire-fighting all season and I wouldn''t be surprised to see most of the above leave in the summer anyway.

[ZLF 273]

Worthy, like any one else,  can only improve if he recognises where he is going wrong - so far its the fans and the players that are so how will he change if its all someone elses fault?

A mate sits just behind the dug out and tells me of two interesting things that happened on sat.

Firstly delia leans forward and asks them to get behind the team as they and become vocal as, like the res of teh crowd they were very quiet  - almosta  mini lets be ''aving you.   She was met with stoney silence apparently.

Secondly the group then called for worthy to bring on a sub;  being so quiet they knew Nigel could hear them, and goaded his lack of response despite growing calls for JJ to be introduced, the back of his neck visibly reddened at the heckling showing he could hear. This went on for some time during the second half.

He then got an ironic cheer just after leons pen when he got JJ and Hendo to warm up, with calls of we knew you would see sense; only for Mr Stubborn to promptly tell the pair of them to sit back down again.

Truly a seige mentality is setting in when the manager is taking decision to spite the crowd despite his own better judgement - being the intepretation in the crowd. 

    

 

[BRAVEHEART 0]

Dionysus

Up to a point I understand how you feel about Hughes, Robinson, Colin. But of late since the Leeds game i think Hughes and Robinson''s performances have improved to what they were when they first come into the team. I think Robinson and Hughes should take a little credit for the way they''ve performed of late as they have been part of our good run which we''ve had lately.

As For Colin for me he is still learning and i don''t think it would be fair on him just to sell him in the summer as this is his first season with us and i feel we may see the best of him next year as he''s been here a year now. You have to remember Colin is still young only 20 years old and for a young player like him it will take time to adapt, longer than someone like M.Louis-Jean who has played in the Championship for a while with Nottingham Forrest.

As for Etuhu and Thorne they can have no excuses for their enept displays for Norwich this season. Etuhu we could keep as he has potential and may improve, but Thorne simply has to go his goalscoring record is rubbish he never has an influence for Norwich when he plays and in my mind is useless i''m sorry to say.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="CANARY BRAVEHEART"]

The reason I think the board aren''t going to sack the manager just yet is because i think they are looking at the bigger picture. And by this I mean his overall track record. Lets think about the time Worthington has been at the club hes been here in total 6 years. This year is his 6th year now if you think about each season hes been here this is his record below;

1st Season saved us from relegation                   - good season

2nd Season got us to the play-off final               - good season

3rd Season finished 8th                                    - bad season

4th Season got us promotion to the premiership  - good season

5th Season relegation from the premiership         - bad season

6th Season failed to gain a play-off place            - bad season

 > 3 OUT OF 6 - GOOD SEASONS

 > 3 OUT OF 6 - BAD SEASONS   

So by looking at Worthingtons record we can see he''s had 3 bad seasons and 3 good which is average could of been better but it hasn''t, could of been worse but hasn''t so overall i think hes done an average job. Which is why i think the board are going to wait another season to see which way the scales tip in terms of his overall record in his time here. The way that i see it is that Worthington could either have another poor season like this one or he could have a good season and gain us promotion. I think it''s a 50/50 as to whether or not Worthington will do better next season, because i don''t think that it is right for fans to assume that just because this season has been bad the next one will, next season is a fresh start i''m prepared to give him a chance.

Next Season from a statistical point of view will in my view make or break Worthingtons future at Norwich City. Because if he has a bad season that will mean 4 bad seasons and 3 good seasons i.e. 3/7 which would tip Worthingtons record towards a poor overall record. But then it could happen the other way around, we just don''t know. Which is why I am prepared to wait 1 more season just to see which way the scales tip.  

[/quote]

Not Sure that the board would look at it like that. I think you will find it is more like this:1st Season: Caretaker manager - got City away from the playoffs with limited resources - Good season.2nd Season: Took more or less the same team to the play-off final where we narrowly missed out on victory after beating the favourites Wolves on the way. We got in just as Crystal Palace would do to get to the premiership. Fantastic season.3rd Season: A transition year. The play off final proved that we could do it but needed more quality to be a challenge all season. On the back of that Worthington was allowed to restructure somewhat releasing players like Sutch. We finnished 8th narrowly missing out on repeating the previous years performances. Average season.4th Season: With more additions after the previous year we battled out way to the league title in style. Huckerby, Crouch and Harper - all masterstrokes. Fantastic season.5th Season: Premiership - the board having allocated most of the money towards the survival of this club handed Worthington a very limited war chest. Rather than blowing it on one big player that may or may not pull off he signed some experienced players at this level who should have been more than capable of performing. Due to injuries, mercurial play by some and the lack of commitment and loyalty by others we only just missed out on premiership survival having been overtaken by the one club in the entire league that deserved it the least - WBA. Good season against the odds.6th Season: This season. For all the hype and attitude this season has not been bad - it has been Average. Yes the football at times has been disastrous. But our position in the table does not lie. Crazily enough if we finnish lower than 8th it will be the worse finnish at the end of a season solely under Worthington.The problem is as I have said all along is consistancy with this side at the moment. We have Seen the best and the worse of Norwich this season. You have the QPR and Luton performances verses the Southampton and Sheff Utd performances. Most of the rest falls somewhere in between but it has been incredibly hard for anyone too predict what team is going to turn up.Although people question Worthingtons tactics he has tried to kick some life into that lot by changing formations to incurage his players to be more possitive like the 4-3-3. And recently when our midfield seems to failing to really help defencively stick a defender in their to play deep midfield almost like a sweeper in front of the back four.At Leeds it worked, at Burnley it didn''t but when people are moaning about goals conceeded you can not complain that he has not tried to do something about it. Again I think the board would see this season as a transition season with a lot of players having come and gone. out of all the new recruits signed in the premiership season only Safri, Docherty and Gallacher are likely to be here next season.

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Zipper: How many managers do we see changing their minds on substitutions after a goal is scored? Loads. It''s exactly this kind of petty point scoring that is driving a wedge between the fans. It''s totally unnecessary and isn''t helping anyone. We won. Get over it.

[Dionysus 0]

King Juan,

I agree that Etuhu has, in the past, shown that he has some footballing capabilities. The trouble is his potential has yet to be realised. Preston were unable to do this so why should we be any different. He was awful during his loan spell and, I think, we only signed him because an agreement had already been made. The last game of his loan was one of the worst performances I have ever seen from a player in a city shirt.

As you say, Colin is still young and may still adapt to the English game. However, can we really afford to have him do this in the first team in a crunch season?

You say Robinson was brought in as cover. If so then he should not be part of Worthy''s first team plans for next season. I would have preferred us to have used our youngsters as cover. They couldn''t have done much worse.

Braveheart,

I''m sorry but I disagree. Personally I think Robinson and Hughes were our worst two players against Leicester. How Robinson was awarded MOTM I''ll never know. As another poster suggested, an April Fools joke perhaps. If either of them plays regularly in midfield next season then I seriously doubt we''ll be good enough to mount a title challenge.

You use the words ''good run''. In terms of points, yes we have had a good home run. However, I haven''t seen a good, sustained home performance since the Southampton game.

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Dionysus,

I agree Etuhu''s last performance was terrible - I still think there''s hope though. I''m not sure we had much choice with Robinson - the rules are send him back or sign him, and I''m not sure the youngsters would have been worth the gamble in a league where we could play this inconsistently and still be in with a play off shout up till the Burnley game. Delia talked at the AGM about the number of times we''ve nearly signed ''bigger'' players only to be shafted by their agents at the last minute and I believe this is true - that''s why we go for the likes of Robinson - experienced if somewhat lacking the extra edge to push us on, but within our price structure and willing to come here.

Chicken,

One of the most articulate posts I''ve read this season. I agree entirely with what you say. Even if I didn''t, if only more people could think quite so clearly before posting we wouldn''t have to trawl through reams of what is essentially the same old blinkered bitching with nothing new to add. Good on yer.

OTBC

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

King Juan,

I am sure the youngsters couldnt have done much worse than Robinson, Hughes and Dickson absolute total crock of crap could have.  Etuhu is so utterly poor a footballer that worthy wont even bring him on when he is a sub!!!

In fact, many fans where I sit couldnt beleive JJ2 wasnt brought on!!  HOW MUCH ARE WE PAYING FOR HIM TO BE HERE!!!  and he IS a good player unlike Hughes, Robinson and Etuhu..

Etuhu- massive potential!!!  you are having a laugh  Massive Pay-check more like!!!

As for worthy doing a good job...  He has been in charge Five years!!!  and how far have we come?? well we are still in championship midtable with an unbalanced squad increasingly filled with championship journeymen on big pay-checks!!

People talk of 5 year plans - If a player like hughes is still first name on the teamsheet next year then we will again be championship midtable!!  Worthy must be the first manager NOT to acheive the play-offs or better with Darren Huckerby in his team!!  I will be attending matches but don''t expect any vocal support support from me while worthy is still boss.. (except the odd shout of HOOF!!! every 2 minutes)

Thanks

[morty 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

King Juan,

I am sure the youngsters couldnt have done much worse than Robinson, Hughes and Dickson absolute total crock of crap could have.  Etuhu is so utterly poor a footballer that worthy wont even bring him on when he is a sub!!!

In fact, many fans where I sit couldnt beleive JJ2 wasnt brought on!!  HOW MUCH ARE WE PAYING FOR HIM TO BE HERE!!!  and he IS a good player unlike Hughes, Robinson and Etuhu..

Etuhu- massive potential!!!  you are having a laugh  Massive Pay-check more like!!!

As for worthy doing a good job...  He has been in charge Five years!!!  and how far have we come?? well we are still in championship midtable with an unbalanced squad increasingly filled with championship journeymen on big pay-checks!!

People talk of 5 year plans - If a player like hughes is still first name on the teamsheet next year then we will again be championship midtable!!  Worthy must be the first manager NOT to acheive the play-offs or better with Darren Huckerby in his team!!  I will be attending matches but don''t expect any vocal support support from me while worthy is still boss.. (except the odd shout of HOOF!!! every 2 minutes)

Thanks

[/quote]

You''re completely right mate, we should have won the Champions league by now at least!!!

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

I don''t remember Hendo getting any leeway from the fans in his first few games, quite the opposite, and I''d be very surprised if the youngsters would feel comfortable playing with the amount of nastiness coming from the stands. This is the problem. You talk about the alternatives but right now there are none. This season has been one massive mistake, from start to finish, but a club like us are tied by the transfer windows. Worthy screwed up in the market last summer and it (and injuries) set the theme for the entire season, but when you are a relatively small club like we are, it is difficult to arrest the slide mid season. We are stupid to believe the board have or are not listening to us but they would be stupid if they threw every player out who doesn''t quite work out in the first season (I''m only talking about Etuhu (watch him in training - you''ll see what I mean) and maybe Colin here). I hope they stop this needless signing of players on loans and not playing them though.

The board and Worthy must take stock this summer and stop messing around. However, if you want Delia to walk away from the club then carry on being the reactionary you are. If you want us to do well, have a little patience as Braveheart says - then you''ll have ample reason to want Worthy go if he doesn''t produce the goods next season. You don''t have to offer Worthy vocal support but if you can''t support the team, don''t bother going any more. I don''t think Worthy will prove to be the right man but I''m not about to p1ss in the wind and watch Delia walk away with her money because of ungrateful fans, because we''ll end up in the Conference.

[Gary Rudland 0]

Time for all of them to go ............... whats all this good season bad season stuff!!! Its been very bad this season and what made the last one any good REMEMBER FULHAM!!!!!!!!!!!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

King Juan,

I am sure the youngsters couldnt have done much worse than Robinson, Hughes and Dickson absolute total crock of crap could have.  Etuhu is so utterly poor a footballer that worthy wont even bring him on when he is a sub!!!

In fact, many fans where I sit couldnt beleive JJ2 wasnt brought on!!  HOW MUCH ARE WE PAYING FOR HIM TO BE HERE!!!  and he IS a good player unlike Hughes, Robinson and Etuhu..

Etuhu- massive potential!!!  you are having a laugh  Massive Pay-check more like!!!

As for worthy doing a good job...  He has been in charge Five years!!!  and how far have we come?? well we are still in championship midtable with an unbalanced squad increasingly filled with championship journeymen on big pay-checks!!

People talk of 5 year plans - If a player like hughes is still first name on the teamsheet next year then we will again be championship midtable!!  Worthy must be the first manager NOT to acheive the play-offs or better with Darren Huckerby in his team!!  I will be attending matches but don''t expect any vocal support support from me while worthy is still boss.. (except the odd shout of HOOF!!! every 2 minutes)

Thanks

[/quote]

You''re completely right mate, we should have won the Champions league by now at least!!!

[/quote]

I don''t expect too much but having made it too the prem and too see players of the quality of andy hughes, etuhu, jarrett, thorne, robinson, colin, MLJ.  coming into the squad is disheartening to say the least.  Not an ounce of FOOTBALL ABILITY amongst them.  Its no wonder we are 11 points off the play-offs!!  Is this what we have acheived since promotion!!

Still relying on Hucks to win us matches!!  One of the worst defense''s in the division, still no right wing...At one point this season we had 7 full backs at the club!! surely a right winger wouldnt have gone amiss at some point...

Nothing to play for at the weekend and no subs used!!!!  its beyond a joke....  WHERE IS JARVIS??  saesons over why wasnt he given 30 minutes??  or Hendo?? or even dare I say it £450,000 man Etuhu!!!  or JJ2 our expensive loan...

NO CREATIVITY in teh side bar hucks...  all after 5 years...  dull manager dull team I guess

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Worthington does not have a plan.

He never knows his best team.

Circumstances and chance dictate his winning formulas.

His close and pre-season work is inadequate and he ends up with loans

and panic buys.

That is the bigger picture, not what we did second half at Leeds or at home

to Sheffield United which are the factors driving our Boards thinking.