Wagner bashing

[Canary Jedi 610]

Having been generally quite critical of our style of play under Wagner this season, I’ve got to give credit for the Leeds and West Brom games.

If the team had performed like this all season we would certainly be in a strong playoff position.

The team seem to have a new found belief and are much more impressive in have they pass from back to front.

If these performances continue and can translate into more goals then we could yet make the playoffs.

Big warning though, huge reliance on Sargent staying fit. Idah had yet another chance tonight and fluffed it. What is to be done with him?

[JonnyJonnyRowe 972]

19 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

Idah had yet another chance tonight and fluffed it. What is to be done with him?

He wasn't the option Onel should have gone with on that break, and for me that was more criminal than the miss.

I think the pair of them have some nice attributes but they both lack the footballing intelligence needed to be consistently useful for a team with upper Championship aspirations. Placheta another who has some nice attributes and no brain. 

Edited January 24 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[mastoola 204]

32 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

He wasn't the option Onel should have gone with on that break, and for me that was more criminal than the miss.

I think the pair of them have some nice attributes but they both lack the footballing intelligence needed to be consistently useful for a team with upper Championship aspirations. Placheta another who has some nice attributes and no brain. 

Not Wagners fault

[CDMullins 498]

As this Wagner thing gone full circle?

We were dreadful against Hull but won - Credit to Wagner.

We were good tonight but lost - credit to Wagner.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 972]

20 minutes ago, mastoola said:

Not Wagners fault

I didn't say it was?

[Google Bot 3,929]

1 hour ago, Canary Jedi said:

If the team had performed like this all season we would certainly be in a strong playoff position.

We didn't have the players, sadly.  It's not a coincidence, nor should it be that huge of a surprise that we play better and more to our desired way when we have key players fit.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 972]

17 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

As this Wagner thing gone full circle?

We were dreadful against Hull but won - Credit to Wagner.

We were good tonight but lost - credit to Wagner.

I think there is a strong case to argue that Wagner is doing about as well as can be expected with this squad in recent weeks. 

If there is an expectation of a top 6 finish then his employers need to find him a big stack of greenbacks to strengthen the squad in this window, and with 6 days left of the window I'm not too optimistic.

I said a while back the board needed to either back him in this window or sack him, and we're stuck in this weird limbo where they aren't prepared to do either, and that's perhaps only going to deflect attention away from how Wagner is running the team to how his superiors are running the club.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 972]

4 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

We didn't have the players, sadly.  It's not a coincidence, nor should it be that huge of a surprise that we play better and more to our desired way when we have key players fit.

Yep, we can put out a decent eleven when everybody is fit.

But seldom does that happen at any club.

Its a failure to give Wagner a squad with sufficient depth in quality. 

[The Bunny 326]

1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

He wasn't the option Onel should have gone with on that break, and for me that was more criminal than the miss.

That is really stretching credulity. That was an excellent break and pass from Onel and Idah totally fluffed it. 

Edited January 25 by The Bunny

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

I still don’t like his subs. It’s like he feels compelled to make them.. we were on top until he started changing things, and subsequently lost control and momentum.

Regardless of the match situation, he seems to make 4 or 5 subs at the same points in every match. He also doesn’t have the squad quality in depth to make that many changes without making us weaker.

Edited January 25 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Paul101 190]

same wanted him sacked since the end of last season still not massivly happy with him

 

but the last two games have shown a  vision with the midfield playmakers just dont think we are whole unit yet and how long can we keep the work in progress together

[Paul101 190]

8 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

He wasn't the option Onel should have gone with on that break, and for me that was more criminal than the miss.

I think the pair of them have some nice attributes but they both lack the footballing intelligence needed to be consistently useful for a team with upper Championship aspirations. Placheta another who has some nice attributes and no brain. 

Dont think we can call it a miss he had a hell of a lot to do , think Onel caught him by suprise tbh

Placheta is awful a 70% footballer so to speak like a slightly faster Lee Croft who could run with the ball and thats it  zero end product

[S_81 1,101]

Wagner has mitigation in the form of a lack of quality depth in the squad. That becomes more apparent a challenge when we have injuries. But I still feel that his tactics don’t work well enough for our strongest 11. It’s all about limitation. At times we snatch a result with that approach. At times we lose without never looking like scoring. The results lately have kept him in the job. And moved us up the table. He has earned the right to stay in the role. But I still don’t believe he’s a varied and positive enough tactician, whether it be with their squad or another, to get us into the play offs or get us promoted. But I really do hope he proves me wrong - as I want success for us over being proved right. And he also seems a decent guy and is likeable in many respects. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,299]

6 hours ago, The Bunny said:

That is really stretching credulity. That was an excellent break and pass from Onel and Idah totally fluffed it. 

Agreed. Onel done nothing wrong - in fact I'd say he fashioned a chance he had no right to make - that was all on Idah being not good enough to make it count.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,299]

8 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

He wasn't the option Onel should have gone with on that break, and for me that was more criminal than the miss.

I think the pair of them have some nice attributes but they both lack the footballing intelligence needed to be consistently useful for a team with upper Championship aspirations. Placheta another who has some nice attributes and no brain. 

No way. Onel basically made a chance from nowhere that Idah badly fluffed. Onel was 0% to blame for that going begging and Idah was 100% to blame.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 972]

38 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

No way. Onel basically made a chance from nowhere that Idah badly fluffed. Onel was 0% to blame for that going begging and Idah was 100% to blame.

 

7 hours ago, The Bunny said:

That is really stretching credulity. That was an excellent break and pass from Onel and Idah totally fluffed it. 

 

Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to find the clip anywhere to take a fresh look to review my opinion, watched 2 extended highlights videos and left off both, but I'm sure that he had a player on the inside and a player on the outside, and that the player on the inside would have been through and the player on the outside (Idah) had work to do.

Idah did still fluff his lines, although Idah is getting hammered for that when Sara was guilty of a much worse miss imho. 

Edited January 25 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

7 hours ago, The Bunny said:

That is really stretching credulity. That was an excellent break and pass from Onel and Idah totally fluffed it. 

Basically, he's just not good enough. Confidence wise, skill wise, heading ability wise, you name it he's just not there and is old enough and has had long enough to prove otherwise. Maybe he should have been handled better by the club and had a decent loan out, but quite frankly I think his whole package is insufficient for a team aiming for the top -six.

I've really wanted the boy to come good so often, and he has shown some signs of that occasionally in recent appearances, but never seems to move forward and disappoints more than he encourages.

Call this scapegoating or whatever, I don't for I feel that the fact is that his negatives are more obvious than his positives.

I've said before that a move to a club like Peterborough for somewhere around £1m might be a suitable destination for the boy. He could probably season into a decent, experienced, confident player by the time he reaches 28. 

It would also bring about an end to this interminable debate about his worth. I realise he has some supporters (and I was once one of those,) but they must have more patience than I have.

Edited January 25 by BroadstairsR

[pete 371]

What doesn't Wagner desrve criticism for what dross has been dserved up all season.  All forgiven for two reasonable performances against decent Champjonship teams.  Maybe if continues to redeem himself over remaining games entering the time of last season when entered run of defeats.  After being in reasonable play off shape.  Lets hand out the tributes at the end of the season.  Personally think he is gone look at the activity in transfer market, no funds at all for DW. 

[Addick/Canary 162]

There is one rule only in supporting the fast break that Onel made out of nothing: you do not kill the momentum by turning back with the ball, as that allows the defenders to re-group.

Idah had 2 options: a) hit the shot first time, which would have been a difficult and spectacular finish - the type that he has not shown himself capable of doing to date, or b) play the ball first time into the area for A N Other to score (hopefully).

 

[Addick/Canary 162]

Sorry, we seem to have gone off subject a bit and it turned into Idah bashing. Apologies.

[jaberry2 769]

10 hours ago, Canary Jedi said:

Having been generally quite critical of our style of play under Wagner this season, I’ve got to give credit for the Leeds and West Brom games.

If the team had performed like this all season we would certainly be in a strong playoff position.

The team seem to have a new found belief and are much more impressive in have they pass from back to front.

If these performances continue and can translate into more goals then we could yet make the playoffs.

Big warning though, huge reliance on Sargent staying fit. Idah had yet another chance tonight and fluffed it. What is to be done with him?

We are now seeing something fans can get behind. There has been little in the way to cheer previously in the season. Lets hope we see this as the start of improvement.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

It appears to me that the lack of ability in the squad to sustain a promotion push throughout this season is no fault of Wagner because of the squad he has at his disposal so am i to assume he had no say in the cards he was dealt last summer by Webber ? After all he had only been here six months.

[Gordon Bennett 914]

People will bash as that's what they do but as it stands we are one result off the top six (albeit having played a game more) and I think that's about right for the ability of the squad and management. As ever it'll be a fag paper between 6th and just below come May, that's the Championship. I wonder if we'll be good enough over the remaining seventeen games to do enough? Depends on whether your glass is half full or empty.

[BigFish 2,282]

1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Idah did still fluff his lines, although Idah is getting hammered for that when Sara was guilty of a much worse miss imho. 

That is the law of this forum, some get hammered whatever they do, some can get away with absolute howlers. You need the learn who is in which category before you post.

Truth is somewhere in between.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

29 minutes ago, Addick/Canary said:

Sorry, we seem to have gone off subject a bit and it turned into Idah bashing. Apologies.

My fault, but we are discussing Wagner and the lack of depth available to him after all.

We now need a.n. other striker option as much as we need that elusive CDM  in this window, imo.

[Number9 272]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

It appears to me that the lack of ability in the squad to sustain a promotion push throughout this season is no fault of Wagner because of the squad he has at his disposal so am i to assume he had no say in the cards he was dealt last summer by Webber ? After all he had only been here six months.

Exactly, Wagner & Webber signed those players in the summer, it's a bit much to now say he's been dealt bad cards.

 

 

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

Fortunately the future of Wagner won't be determined by experts on here, whether you are for or against, that's why the club employed Ben Knapper. It needs to be a strategic decision based on the long term future, either from a playing style viewpoint or built around a specific Head Coach, or both.

Credit to Wagner how he's partially turned it round even more so because the returning players are still coming up a bit short imo. Yes he's scored a couple but Sarge was hardly in the game last night and was rightly subbed, Barnes hasn't done much and Sainz seems to be already regressing after a promising start. So yeah credit to Wagner for making the best of a bad job.

Is Wagner the long term answer? Over to you BK.

 

 

[norfolkngood 1,174]

Not impressed with Wagner last season or this only recently has he done well in my opinion ,

and that could be a upturn due to players returning ,

yes he had awful injuries this season But his job is to find solutions ,

he could of tried all types of different tactics formations moving players etc but nothing came off for large periods ,

i think really good managers find away around a problem Wagner was trying to play his way with lesser players ,

i think he has Now found a system that works but it will not be long before managers work away to play against it ,

i think he is very limited and hopeful we can find better in Summer 

 

[The Bunny 326]

FWIW I'm not an Idah basher. He's actually impressed me this season, although not as much lately. 

I just find it funny that when Idah blows an excellent chance, some people on here have such an agenda against Onel that they blame him for the chance he created from nowhere, rather than the guy who squandered it. The same thing happened after the previous match too. 

[canarybubbles 2,199]

18 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

My fault, but we are discussing Wagner and the lack of depth available to him after all.

We now need a.n. other striker option as much as we need that elusive CDM  in this window, imo.

But if we get another striker, Idah will probably again end up being third choice and get hardly any playing time. This keeps happening and there must be a reason for it.