Lees Melou

[Canario 268]

Currently the player with most possessions won across all of Europe's top leagues. 

There was a player there somewhere, just never really got going with us. 

[Top corner 260]

He always looked very comfortable on the ball, a very intelligent footballer in my opinion. 

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

He suffered from being a poor fit with McLean as both guys had a knack of chasing everything to the detriment of team shape. Looked decent in a pair with Lungi but there wasn't enough of a sample size - just the Everton game and then Lungi got injured 20 minutes into the Watford one.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

I was disappointed we didn’t keep him. Assume he wanted to leave, but definitely a player in there. But we got to keep McLean, so all good…..

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

Wasn't quick enough or strong enough to succeed in the premier league. Ligue 1 a much different affair which is why PSG won't ever succeed in Europe. 

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

He was always blowing out of his backside after an hour - simply didn’t appear to be up for the speed of the PL, and didn’t fancy the Championship. I don’t miss him at all if I’m honest.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

Tell you who I do think we miss in the middle - Lukas Rupp. Gave us some pace, a good work rate and was diligent out of possession.

Edited November 14, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Capt. Pants 5,010]

Lees-Melou was basically dog ****. Lightweight and not up to the fight for English football. To be fair he's not the only one we've signed like that.

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

2 hours ago, Canario said:

Currently the player with most possessions won across all of Europe's top leagues.

What does this mean?

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

11 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

What does this mean?

That the French league is generally quite weak?

[Ulfotto 800]

He struggled to get up to the pace of the English football probably not helped by fact covid destroyed our pre season. By the time he was up to speed in March April our season was already over. 
 

Shame he left he would have been really good last season if he had stayed. That said we got our most of our money back.

[mrdi 411]

Stats from a different league at a different time are completely irrelevant with regards to the PLM we had. He looked out if his depth when he was here, f-ed up an easy chance vs 10 men at Newcastle and sauntered off at the first opportunity after relegation. For all the Billy Big Spuds billing, he was just a bag of soggy footballing  mash. The Carl Robinson of the Webber era. 

[Fen Canary 1,456]

My mate got done for possession recently. How much did Lees Malou get caught with? 

[hogesar 10,765]

He was decent on the ball and was one of our better signings that window but couldn't cope with more than 65 minutes a game before he seriously tailed off. 

Think he could have been very good in the Championship but he clearly didn't fancy it.

[AJ 1,359]

16 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

What does this mean?

Damn statistics and lies. It could also mean he's given the ball away the most in order to win it back 😅

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

Fantastic player, surprised Man City haven’t signed him. 

[king canary 8,757]

It is interesting to see several of those players who flopped here thriving elsewhere. PLM, Kabak, Rashica, even Gilmour have shown they aren't totally useless. Heck Tzolis is starting to thrive. There was just no balance to the squad and seemingly no buy in from the HC that these players and their playing style were what was needed.

[Mason 47 1,925]

14 minutes ago, king canary said:

It is interesting to see several of those players who flopped here thriving elsewhere. PLM, Kabak, Rashica, even Gilmour have shown they aren't totally useless. Heck Tzolis is starting to thrive. There was just no balance to the squad and seemingly no buy in from the HC that these players and their playing style were what was needed.

I think it puts a lot of weight behind the argument that we bought too much 'potential' and not enough 'here and now' in that window. And not just in the younger guys like Tzolis, both Normann and PLM theoretically should/ could have brought their helpful statistics with them. Unfortunately we know they did not now. 

The miss in the dying minutes at Newcastle is as big a sliding-doors moment for our fate that season as Cameron Jerome's overhead kick was IMO.

[hogesar 10,765]

19 minutes ago, king canary said:

It is interesting to see several of those players who flopped here thriving elsewhere. PLM, Kabak, Rashica, even Gilmour have shown they aren't totally useless. Heck Tzolis is starting to thrive. There was just no balance to the squad and seemingly no buy in from the HC that these players and their playing style were what was needed.

It does make you wonder if, what for us typically looked like a "rushed" decision to sack Farke was actually a problem that started in pre-season where Webber had sourced these players to change the way we approached the Prem season but Farke couldn't or wouldn't or simply disagreed and was festering since then.

Although I'd argue only really Kabak and PLM are relevant in the "performing" classification. Tzolis is playing at too low a level to be compared to being useful in the Prem and Brightons form has seriously dipped the more Gilmour has played.

[king canary 8,757]

22 minutes ago, hogesar said:

It does make you wonder if, what for us typically looked like a "rushed" decision to sack Farke was actually a problem that started in pre-season where Webber had sourced these players to change the way we approached the Prem season but Farke couldn't or wouldn't or simply disagreed and was festering since then.

Although I'd argue only really Kabak and PLM are relevant in the "performing" classification. Tzolis is playing at too low a level to be compared to being useful in the Prem and Brightons form has seriously dipped the more Gilmour has played.

Yeah I think I've made a similar case in other threads. 

We still massively failed to address the gap in defensive midfield though which could have made some of these players work better.

I do believe (obviously no way of proving this) that a team of Krul, Aarons, Hanley, Kabak, Giannoulis, DM, PLM, Buendia, Sargent, Rashica, Pukki could have been competitive at Premier League level. 

27 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I think it puts a lot of weight behind the argument that we bought too much 'potential' and not enough 'here and now' in that window. And not just in the younger guys like Tzolis, both Normann and PLM theoretically should/ could have brought their helpful statistics with them. Unfortunately we know they did not now. 

Yes I agree with this too. 

There was a lot of wasted money still in that window. However much we paid for Normann, the DM who isn't a DM. £5m on a backup keeper. Whatever we ended up paying for Tzolis. The loan fee and wages for Gilmour. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,830]

18 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Tell you who I do think we miss in the middle - Lukas Rupp. Gave us some pace, a good work rate and was diligent out of possession.

Yeah, but we've got Adam forshaw now so.... Winning? 🤣🤣🤣

[Canario 268]

Yep. In the case of PLM it shows what we were trying to being in. A box to box type with good stats. However he was never up to the speed or physicality of the PL. Stick him in an italian side and hed probably do well. 

 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

It is interesting to see several of those players who flopped here thriving elsewhere. PLM, Kabak, Rashica, even Gilmour have shown they aren't totally useless. Heck Tzolis is starting to thrive. There was just no balance to the squad and seemingly no buy in from the HC that these players and their playing style were what was needed.

Wasn't Kabak a panic buy/loan after we failed to offer Ajer high enough wages and the deal with him collapsed?

Edited November 15, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,261]

You can't compare the stats in any other top league in Europe with those in the PL. Not only is it a much more physical league full of athletes, it's also played at a much faster pace with the bottom 14 or so teams adopting a much more pragmatic approach than the other top leagues. Plus the quality of all the the mid table and below clubs are miles better in the PL than they are in any other league. Our last two promoted squads would survive in La Liga or Ligue 1 but they were miles off in the PL. Players like PLM can excel for a mid to lower Ligue 1 club because the level is somewhere around top Championship and the football is slower and less end to end so it's much easier to win possession back against a team in Europe than it is here. 

[Robert N. LiM 6,290]

1 hour ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

You can't compare the stats in any other top league in Europe with those in the PL. Not only is it a much more physical league full of athletes, it's also played at a much faster pace with the bottom 14 or so teams adopting a much more pragmatic approach than the other top leagues. Plus the quality of all the the mid table and below clubs are miles better in the PL than they are in any other league. Our last two promoted squads would survive in La Liga or Ligue 1 but they were miles off in the PL. Players like PLM can excel for a mid to lower Ligue 1 club because the level is somewhere around top Championship and the football is slower and less end to end so it's much easier to win possession back against a team in Europe than it is here. 

It's a shame that that realisation doesn't work the other way. PLM obviously thought the Championship was beneath him but if you're right in what you're saying (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then he might well have been playing at a higher level last season if he'd stayed with us.

[hertfordyellow 462]

And some of our most revered players didn't do it at other clubs. Hucks by his own admission didn't have a good time at Leeds, Roberts and Wolves weren't a good fit. Holt needed to drop a league or two to get back on track. It's not always a clubs fault a player doesn't do well.

[YellowSubmarine 43]

On 15/11/2023 at 14:30, cambridgeshire canary said:

Wasn't Kabak a panic buy/loan after we failed to offer Ajer high enough wages and the deal with him collapsed?

Sort of, he was on a list with Ajer, Bournauw and Niakhate. Unfortunately priced out by the first three

[Nuff Said 5,964]

On 14/11/2023 at 20:00, Pyro Pete said:

What does this mean?

I think it means that he’s now a bailiff.

[chicken 3,086]

On 15/11/2023 at 12:57, king canary said:

It is interesting to see several of those players who flopped here thriving elsewhere. PLM, Kabak, Rashica, even Gilmour have shown they aren't totally useless. Heck Tzolis is starting to thrive. There was just no balance to the squad and seemingly no buy in from the HC that these players and their playing style were what was needed.

This has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

PLM, Kabak and Rashica, all showed glimpses of their quality with us. Kabak was 21, and as anyone who has coached football knows, you are not guaranteed consistency from youngsters. Not only that, but centre backs in particular are not known for being consistent that early on in their careers where they may be inclined to try and impress and make rash decisions etc and with not much experience.

In a sense Kabak is the most standout in that he has arguably progressed his career since then. I would say that is somewhat predictable for a player Liverpool saw enough potential in to loan the season before he came to us, and that had a value of £10m put on him when loaned to us (with loan fee would have been more than that obviously).

PLM wanted to leave after relegation, you can't blame him, he had already been a success in Ligue 1 and the chance to return would mean the potential of European football which I believe he had experienced before. Despite the somewhat questionable views on here, he had quality and it was seen earlier in the season just not consistently. I also believe he was played out of position as he had played more games as an attacking midfielder in France. Which may well be why people felt he played better later in the season when he was more often deployed further forward. We got back his fee so essentially just wages spent.

Rashica is playing in Turkey. I won't be alone in suggesting that the Turkish league is pretty poor. A lot of European players go there towards the end of their careers, I'm guessing because occasionally the teams there can throw them bigger contracts than they are being offered elsewhere. I think Pukki was rumoured to attract the attention of one o f the teams there at one point  last season. I think many of the teams in their league would struggle to contend in the Championship. One or two might do ok. A very mixed league for sure, certainly not one to judge Rashica on being any better now that's for sure.

All three of these players came to us with little to no experience of English football. There has been a saying around for ages that it can take a season for players to adapt to English football. Sadly if players leave after a season, it can be very difficult to assess whether they would ever have been a success. Just as some players seem to arrive with a bang and then whimper out the following season.

Tzolis always had potential, his stats proved that, the actual issue we had with Tzolis is that we really didn't have the funds to gamble £10m with. Not his fault about the fee, but something that can, and Smith said had, weighed heavily on the lad. Clearly they hoped he would be fast to adapt into the English game at a young age and then they would be looking potentially at the next young tallent to burst through and be worth double what we paid for him. As said, a gamble we could ill afford really.

Wonderful thing called hindsight would probably have been signing Kabak for the same fee and at the very least being able to recoup at least half of that if needed. 

[king canary 8,757]

12 hours ago, chicken said:

This has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

PLM, Kabak and Rashica, all showed glimpses of their quality with us. Kabak was 21, and as anyone who has coached football knows, you are not guaranteed consistency from youngsters. Not only that, but centre backs in particular are not known for being consistent that early on in their careers where they may be inclined to try and impress and make rash decisions etc and with not much experience.

In a sense Kabak is the most standout in that he has arguably progressed his career since then. I would say that is somewhat predictable for a player Liverpool saw enough potential in to loan the season before he came to us, and that had a value of £10m put on him when loaned to us (with loan fee would have been more than that obviously).

PLM wanted to leave after relegation, you can't blame him, he had already been a success in Ligue 1 and the chance to return would mean the potential of European football which I believe he had experienced before. Despite the somewhat questionable views on here, he had quality and it was seen earlier in the season just not consistently. I also believe he was played out of position as he had played more games as an attacking midfielder in France. Which may well be why people felt he played better later in the season when he was more often deployed further forward. We got back his fee so essentially just wages spent.

Rashica is playing in Turkey. I won't be alone in suggesting that the Turkish league is pretty poor. A lot of European players go there towards the end of their careers, I'm guessing because occasionally the teams there can throw them bigger contracts than they are being offered elsewhere. I think Pukki was rumoured to attract the attention of one o f the teams there at one point  last season. I think many of the teams in their league would struggle to contend in the Championship. One or two might do ok. A very mixed league for sure, certainly not one to judge Rashica on being any better now that's for sure.

All three of these players came to us with little to no experience of English football. There has been a saying around for ages that it can take a season for players to adapt to English football. Sadly if players leave after a season, it can be very difficult to assess whether they would ever have been a success. Just as some players seem to arrive with a bang and then whimper out the following season.

Tzolis always had potential, his stats proved that, the actual issue we had with Tzolis is that we really didn't have the funds to gamble £10m with. Not his fault about the fee, but something that can, and Smith said had, weighed heavily on the lad. Clearly they hoped he would be fast to adapt into the English game at a young age and then they would be looking potentially at the next young tallent to burst through and be worth double what we paid for him. As said, a gamble we could ill afford really.

Wonderful thing called hindsight would probably have been signing Kabak for the same fee and at the very least being able to recoup at least half of that if needed. 

Yeah I largely agree- my point is simply that the players we signed last season weren't bums and have shown themselves potentially capable elsewhere. Not saying it should have been enough to keep us up but I do think the absolute nothing that Farke was getting from them isn't the most anyone could have hoped for as some like to claim.