Why are so many footballers such idiots?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

9 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

It's nuanced

Ever sold ice creams in Glasgow? That's nuanced too. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I dropped the mic. You didn't drop any knowledge, as I know all this.

No. He didn't fix any matches, which is why he was cleared of match fixing. What he was "guilty of", but not declaring it to the proper authorities.

For all he knew, it actually was the Russian Mafia, and he probably thought that if he did tell the authorities, his young family may have faced reprisals.

It's nuanced

No, it's cognitive dissonance. Related to your compatriots.

[Hairy Canary 667]

5 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Are people not allowed to have opinions?

I think he is. Shoot me. Hang me. Cut me into wee pieces and make me into a stew.

No need to do that old chap. Nobody said you shouldn’t have an opinion. Sweary asked for a third example of your favouring a Scottish sportsperson counter to popular opinion and I provided him with one. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,920]

My sort of thread lads, keep it going please. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

What, based on three examples? Hendry, Murray and Gilmour?

Ask me my opinion on any other member of the Male Football squad and I'll give you an honest appraisal.

Murray? I know you have this weird, narcissistic belief that I stalk you around these forums, so it might surprise you to know I have no recollection at all of you ever talking about a Murray. Andy? Glenn? That shocking one we had on loan during the Roeder era?

[Hairy Canary 667]

4 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Oh. I'll offer you the same request: Go to the Male Football squad and I'll give you an honest, and an accurate, portrayal of any player of your choosing.

Ok. That should be more enjoyable than that spat. 😊

I’ll go for Gunn and Kenny to keep the local interest. 
 

For me I think Kenny is a reliable hard working player but has limitations. Prone to lapses in concentration but also able to provide some good moments. 
 

Angus I think is finally beginning to fulfil his potential and I’ve been pleasantly surprised with him this season. I can see him making the Scottish number 1 shirt his own for some time.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Have we even talked before? Serious question.

In this forum I've had debates about Murray, Gilmour and Hendry. Whether, either was with you? No idea.

"Explain to me why you follow me around and troll me. Because I make outlandish comments? Makes no sense. If you dislike my comments so much, why actively engage?"

This must be from another TheDarkKnight.

Pretty weird to one day accuse someone of following them around and trolling them and then later pretending you can't remember who they are, isn't it?

[HazzaJet 252]

6 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Also, Billy G had a much improved season, playing often in the best Brighton team in their history. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that he is very good now is it? 
I didn’t rate him at city, but DKs knowledge of his earlier potential is showing through, despite a lot of laughing and abuse aimed his way. 

For a young player to develop, they usually need to play around a reasonably experienced squad which is probably why he failed with us - we saw that with Omobamidele this season (ok with Hanley/Gibson, poor with Sorensen)

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

No need to do that old chap. Nobody said you shouldn’t have an opinion. Sweary asked for a third example of your favouring a Scottish sportsperson counter to popular opinion and I provided him with one. 

No I didn’t?! Unless you can tell me what Stephen Hendry did that was in some way a scandal? 

An exceptional snooker player by the way, the best of his generation. O’Sullivan is outstanding but took over the baton of Hendry, as did he of Davis. Comparing them is like comparing footballers of different generations at their peak. Impossible to actually determine. It is just as valid to think peak Hendry would beat peak O’Sullivan as the other way around. 

I didn’t understand the need to try and not so subtlety dig at someone, I didn’t get left in charge, I pointed out your baiting. Don’t like it then bothers me none. 

[kirku 1,332]

7 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Also, Billy G had a much improved season, playing often in the best Brighton team in their history. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that he is very good now is it? 
I didn’t rate him at city, but DKs knowledge of his earlier potential is showing through, despite a lot of laughing and abuse aimed his way. 

He started 7 games and played the full 90 twice. Half his appearances lasted less than 10 mins.

Often? Nope 

Edited May 31, 2023 by kirku

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Often?

He started 7 games and lasted the full 90 twice. 

But played in 14, I know early doors for final subs. But majority came at end of season, beating Man Utd, Arsenal and drawing with Man City in that run. Alongside demolishing wolves 6-0 in a 90 minute spell. Had been roundly praised in those fixtures by fans and pundits. 
So in the last period of the season he played often. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

I get those that don’t like his lack of contribution for us l, because that was the case, but there’s obviously a player there. 

[kirku 1,332]

6 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

But played in 14, I know early doors for final subs. But majority came at end of season, beating Man Utd, Arsenal and drawing with Man City in that run. Alongside demolishing wolves 6-0 in a 90 minute spell. Had been roundly praised in those fixtures by fans and pundits. 
So in the last period of the season he played often. 

For balance, he also played in the 5-1 and 4-1 defeats to Newcastle and Everton.

 

[kirku 1,332]

6 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I get those that don’t like his lack of contribution for us l, because that was the case, but there’s obviously a player there. 

He's a mid-tier talent at best.

DK claimed he'd walk into the England side..

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

4 minutes ago, kirku said:

He's a mid-tier talent at best.

DK claimed he'd walk into the England side..

Harry Maguire walks into the England side and he is gash. 

DK based that on the position Gilmour plays and asked for players in the same position to compare against. It wasn’t just a generic statement. It’s academic anyway, we don’t really play with a Gilmour type midfielder. 

Time will tell on the mid tier talent comment I guess. Whatever mid tier means 

[skittles 11]

It’s the Norwich fans thinking that McCallum is our next season left back not players being idiots. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

A large percentage of the general population are idiots. There are a few thousand well known professional footballers around the world so by the law of percentages quite a few will be idiots. Then you throw in the fact that because many of them were so obviously talented from a young age and focused on their game instead of their education and that having your ar5e kissed 24/7 and constantly being told how wonderful and special you are regardless of how you act because of your fame, social status and talent and you're going to end up with quite a few idiots.

For me it's not surprising that so many footballers are idiots, it's more surprising to me that so many are actually decent people despite all of that and take time out to help people and do good in their communities. People like Russel Martin or Onel Hernandez just as an example have no incentive to be good people, but they are anyway because it's who they are. You're going to get idiots in every industry, there are probably a percentage of healthcare professionals/soldiers/scientists/whatever else that profession that people tend to look up to and celebrate who aren't decent people and are just in it for the paycheck or because they're good at what they do.

Some people are just idiots or bad people. You'll find them in every walk of life. 

[Hairy Canary 667]

9 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

No I didn’t?! Unless you can tell me what Stephen Hendry did that was in some way a scandal? 

An exceptional snooker player by the way, the best of his generation. O’Sullivan is outstanding but took over the baton of Hendry, as did he of Davis. Comparing them is like comparing footballers of different generations at their peak. Impossible to actually determine. It is just as valid to think peak Hendry would beat peak O’Sullivan as the other way around. 

I didn’t understand the need to try and not so subtlety dig at someone, I didn’t get left in charge, I pointed out your baiting. Don’t like it then bothers me none. 

Ok, I guess I misunderstood your post, that’s how it read to me.

Maybe my baiting was out of order and if so I apologise to DK. At least I didn’t stick some F’s into my reply.

Dont worry it doesn’t bother me either.

[canarydan23 4,060]

8 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Serious question. Why is that so far fetched?

The common consensus is that he dominated the midfield against England at the Euros, as a 20 year old. With only reserve matches under his belt.

Which lead to Gary Neville freely admitting that England don't have a deep lying playmaker like Gilmour. Vieira agreed and so did Souness.

Chelsea fans love him and would take him back in a heartbeat. Lampard loved him. Rangers fans love him, even though he only played for their youths. Scotland fans love him. Brighton fans love him. Roy Keane got him out of his chair and he said that he looks world class. And he's won the trust of one of the best coaches in the world.

All at 21 years of age.

It's arrogance to say that a few Norwich fans know more than a former England International. Four world class ex midfielders. Four sets of fans and a world class manager.

I wasn't being controversial when I said that he would walk into the England team. He would.

In this current England set-up, the main thing missing is a deep-lying playmaker.

And before anyone chimes in. It's not me who keeps this thing going. Hell, someone brought it up in the England squad announcement thread.

[kirku 1,332]

15 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Serious question. Why is that so far fetched?

Thanks for proving my point for me 👍

[kirku 1,332]

16 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Harry Maguire walks into the England side and he is gash. 

DK based that on the position Gilmour plays and asked for players in the same position to compare against. It wasn’t just a generic statement. It’s academic anyway, we don’t really play with a Gilmour type midfielder. 

Time will tell on the mid tier talent comment I guess. Whatever mid tier means 

So, England don't play with a "Gilmour type midfielder" and yet you're posting in support of the inanity of saying he'd walk into the England side because Harry Maguire does?

Make that make sense.

Edited June 1, 2023 by kirku

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

10 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

Ok, I guess I misunderstood your post, that’s how it read to me.

Maybe my baiting was out of order and if so I apologise to DK. At least I didn’t stick some F’s into my reply.

Dont worry it doesn’t bother me either.

I’m happy to shake on it and let bygones be bygones. Apologies for the F’s. It is my handle tbf! 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

3 hours ago, kirku said:

So, England don't play with a "Gilmour type midfielder" and yet you're posting in support of the inanity of saying he'd walk into the England side because Harry Maguire does?

Make that make sense.

You’re being pedantic. I’m saying if we played with a system that Gilmour’s been utilised by other managers at club and internationally, he would be very much in the mix (if he was English) as a competitive option in that role, but equally someone that clearly has a future with youth on his side. 

Harry Maguire plays for England purely because Gareth likes him and we are seemingly short in that area according to him. Interesting Utd are literally paying Maguire £10 million to go elsewhere. I use him as an example of there being equivalent players in different positions that walk into the England side even when they’re crud. So laughing at the basic principle that someone wouldn’t walk into the side is flawed, it’s based on what a manager decides. 

 

[Mengo 820]

36 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. You didn't answer my question.

Effectively, you're saying that you know better than 4 sets of fans (millions of football fans) and a world class coach and manager.

OK. Good luck with that.

I'm sure Gilmour will wave to you when he's strutting his stuff in Europe.

I'm sure he already has a man of the match award in champions 🏆 league. If I remember  it was against the Russian side Farke joined Krasnodar. 😇

[kirku 1,332]

43 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. You didn't answer my question.

Effectively, you're saying that you know better than 4 sets of fans (millions of football fans) and a world class coach and manager.

OK. Good luck with that.

I'm sure Gilmour will wave to you when he's strutting his stuff in Europe.

Millions of football fans and a "world class coach and manager" don't think that Billy Gilmour would "walk into the England team", you lunatic

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

So laughing at the basic principle that someone wouldn’t walk into the side is flawed, it’s based on what a manager decides. 

 

"Walk into the side" means that the player is so far ahead of the other options available that they'd be automatically first-choice in all situations.

Is that how you'd categorise a hypothetical English Gilmour?!

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,776]

19 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Let's look at rice. His best attribute is his positioning. Which I admit, is world class. Phillips has energy.

Gilmour is a better passer than both of them, and is far more press resistant.

Neville admitting that he'd walk into the England team. And he would. It's not a controversial opinion. Ask the opinions of Chelsea and Brighton fans. They'd agree with me.

Christ, if Carlton Palmer was still around he'd get probaby into the England squad. lol

Let's look at this objectively and imagine Gilmour were English.

Firstly, we must ignore any performances for Scotland, and also Gary Neville's comments because they were made in the studio at the England-Scotland match at Euro 2020 after the game when Neville was working as a pundit. After all, Billy's English now, so he wouldn't have been playing in that match. 

Now, let's study the alternatives. Declan Rice is a key target for Bayern, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd this summer. Jude Bellingham is/was a key target for Real Madrid and Man City. Those two are comfortably ahead of any other English midfielder as well as Gilmour. 

Gilmour would be competing with the likes of Philips, Ward-Prowse, Henderson and Gallagher for the other places in the squad. Henderson is in his twilight years at international level and the others are hardly world beaters, so he'd be in the mix.

But we can only base this on what he's done at club level. Gilmour is English and has not represented Scotland at any level. He impressed at Chelsea in his early performances, but it would've been too soon for a full international call-up. He would've been a regular in the Under-21s since then though, I imagine. 

His loan at Norwich would've been the first real test of his credentials, and let's face it, it was a total failure. This is the reason why so many on this forum will refuse to give Gilmour any praise, no matter what he goes on to do in his career. He was here for a year and despite the national media hyping him up to be our saviour, he was very poor yet nobody outside Norfolk wanted to admit it. It didn't fit their narrative.

But anyway, back to English Billy's international credentials. He has now gone to Brighton and struggled initially, but we now know that the stalker played a part in that. Over the last two or three months he has started to get game time and De Zerbi is quite possibly the perfect coach for Gilmour with their respective styles suiting each other down to the ground and De Zerbi being excellent at developing players. It hasn't all been plain sailing with the odd uncomfortable moment, but generally speaking, he has done well recently. 

This is probably the point where Southgate would be looking at Gilmour seriously and may well have called him up for the post-season internationals. Henderson is getting on, Phillips hasn't played much, Ward-Prowse has been relegated and Gallagher has been a bit-part player in a poor Chelsea team. Gilmour is in form and would be a realistic shout for a call up. 

Any claims that he would've got in the England squad have largely been based on his performance for Scotland at Euro 2020, and had he been English, that would obviously never have happened. Who knows, had Conor Gallagher, Curtis Jones or Oliver Skipp been Scottish, they would probably have several senior caps by now and may have made a similar impression. It could have been: 'Had Curtis Jones been English, he'd walk into the team ahead of Mount and Grealish based on his performances for Scotland.'

But overall, I genuinely cannot see what Gilmour has done in his club career to justify an England call-up before now.