Getting rid of the "Moody" Players

[Michael Starr 519]

Aarons, Big Andy, Pukki I've always felt they played with a huge cloud over their head, especially when things weren't going well. I wonder if this is the character trait Webber spoke about. Now we seem to be replacing them with players like Barnes who's a clear natural leader and retaining players who just get on with it regardless like Hernandez and Sara. It's a clear strategy which I think can work wonders for us.

[Yobocop 1,095]

Good shout but don’t think we can put Aarons in this bracket if I’m honest 

[Newtopia 517]

30 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

Aarons, Big Andy, Pukki I've always felt they played with a huge cloud over their head, especially when things weren't going well. I wonder if this is the character trait Webber spoke about. Now we seem to be replacing them with players like Barnes who's a clear natural leader and retaining players who just get on with it regardless like Hernandez and Sara. It's a clear strategy which I think can work wonders for us.

I do not blame the specific players, but there was a clear lack of leadership, especially without McLean and Hanley.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

Aarons does seem to have the combo of being hyper-focused and a bit grumpy at the same time. I can see that being something that can wind a few up. Then you've Lungi who's apparently as phlegmatic and laid-back as they get.
 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

You would be hyper grumpy if you were told to sit back for 8 months when you naturally want to go forward.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

We need a bit of self assurance and arrogance in the team. Every time we get a clear sight of goal we panic, every player looks like they care too much and it's the biggest moment of their lives so they fluff their lines. When building play from the back nobody is confident enough to play a risky pass forward because they're afraid of making mistakes and don't believe in their ability. Nobody has the confidence to dive into a tackle, everyone just stands off and hopes the opposition makes a mistake. 

I know Webber likes quiet, shy guys who don't rock the boat but we need a bit of confidence and aggression in the team. If you watch MOTD players rarely seem fazed when they score and if they do they make it all about them, they don't go and celebrate with the fans they bask in their own glory. 

There are too many shrinking violets in the team and we need a bit of arrogance and swagger. Yeah these players might not care about the club or fans much but they'll stick a 1v1 chance away and will take some risks to make our play exciting. I think 'moody' is a symptom of our larger problem, these are players who aren't natural leaders but who are tired of putting up with playing in a team with a weak mentality so they sulk instead of trying to change things. I think those same 'moody' players would thrive under good leadership and a confident team. 

[Mello Yello 2,279]

Moody? Trust me they're just Fagin it....

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

It isn't a personality contest. They can't all play grinning like an idiot. 

Roy Keane was hardly life and soul of the party but crikey do we need a leader to get hold of some of these ****s by the scruff of the neck.

[KeiranShikari 1,409]

Max Aarons seems frustrated when the team are bad, that's not a bad personality trait at all. Not sure about Omobamodele either.

Pukki pretty much said that he hated having to play in Smith's Norwich so that is somewhat fair.

I think the there's been a dark cloud over the entire club over the last year. Webber a bigger part of it than any of the players.

[Newtopia 517]

10 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

It isn't a personality contest. They can't all play grinning like an idiot. 

Roy Keane was hardly life and soul of the party but crikey do we need a leader to get hold of some of these ****s by the scruff of the neck.

It does need a mix, players like Pallister, Urwin, Giggleswick, and Sheringham bond teams together with a good attitude, Keane is amazing but when things are not going well they make turning it around tough.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

3 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I know Webber likes quiet, shy guys who don't rock the boat

Really? I have never seen that suggested before. And the signing of Barnes suggests the opposite is true.

[AJ 1,218]

Webber didn't "get rid" of Pukki, he wanted to leave last summer and stayed because we initiated the 1 year extension option in his contract. 

Aarons contract is due to expire next summer, so again, we need to sell this window or he'll leave for nothing. 

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Really? I have never seen that suggested before. And the signing of Barnes suggests the opposite is true.

I'm going off of his previous transfer record. I was probably being a bit disingenuous there, I know that the head coach has a big say in transfer targets and it was probably geared towards what Farke wanted as he wanted robotic players who would do exactly what he wanted without question but Farke is a god on here right now so I didn't want to insinuate it was his fault and incur the wrath of loads of people. But in Webber's time here Farke has been the head coach for the vast majority of the time and we mostly signed a lot of quieter players who were more technically minded who would follow instruction and not cause problems. Anyone who had the slightest hint of an ego was shipped off early or if a player like that was signed for Farke he never played them. I don't tend to take journalists words as gospel but while I could see that myself it's also backed up by a tweet by Nick Ma****er who said that some of our problems started when Farke stripped the playing squad of all leaders. 

My original point still stands though. We have too many quiet players in the team who lack personality, confidence and a bit of self assurance. 

[Danke bitte 965]

17 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

My original point still stands though. We have too many quiet players in the team who lack personality, confidence and a bit of self assurance

This has been the way for years. Our greatest triumph in recent years at being a ****house was the Battle of Brammall Lane. To this day we still suffer from the hands of Sheff Utd fans but how excellent was our behaviour that day?! 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

19 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

This has been the way for years. Our greatest triumph in recent years at being a ****house was the Battle of Brammall Lane. To this day we still suffer from the hands of Sheff Utd fans but how excellent was our behaviour that day?! 

If results weren't going our way that year I'd argue that that group of players wouldn't have had that in them. Likewise if we got really lucky this year with results and the team was confident we'd have seen a bit more character in some of our performances along the lines of what we saw at Bramall Lane back then. 

We have had a lot of players who show really good traits when the sun is shining on them (sorry to use a Farke-ism) but their heads drop when the going gets tough. We need more players who can show that same fight and character when things aren't going our way and we're in a bad run. That takes players who have a bit of professional and individual pride who don't rely on momentum or the crowd to get them going. Players who play for themselves a little bit and who are driven to succeed. We have so many players who obviously care about the club and their performances are so heavily influenced by having the crowd with them and momentum on their side and that's been the case ever since Webber took over. I think it was one of his first interviews when he mentioned having a 'no d1(khe4d policy' but the issue for me is I watch MOTD and I see successful teams full of selfish, individualistic d1(khe4ds who don't get fazed by pressure and play with freedom and I can't help but think that we could do with a bit of that arrogance and self belief. 

I like the idea in theory of having a team of nice lads who care about the club but when it means too much for them and they get badly affected when things aren't going our way it can be a negative. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

9 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I'm going off of his previous transfer record. I was probably being a bit disingenuous there, I know that the head coach has a big say in transfer targets and it was probably geared towards what Farke wanted as he wanted robotic players who would do exactly what he wanted without question but Farke is a god on here right now so I didn't want to insinuate it was his fault and incur the wrath of loads of people. But in Webber's time here Farke has been the head coach for the vast majority of the time and we mostly signed a lot of quieter players who were more technically minded who would follow instruction and not cause problems. Anyone who had the slightest hint of an ego was shipped off early or if a player like that was signed for Farke he never played them. I don't tend to take journalists words as gospel but while I could see that myself it's also backed up by a tweet by Nick Ma****er who said that some of our problems started when Farke stripped the playing squad of all leaders. 

My original point still stands though. We have too many quiet players in the team who lack personality, confidence and a bit of self assurance. 

It seems Webber accepts that, but I haven't seen any reason to think that was deliberate. Krul by all accounts is a big character, but that wasn't why he was dropped. He just made too many mistakes. And Hanley got injured, so towards the end the team lacked leaders.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Farke didn't like rogue egos, for sure, but it didn't mean we didn't have leaders and big characters with egos under him. He required people who's egos were directed towards the group - togetherness was everything and was at the heart of Farkeball. Step out of line and you stepped out of the group - and they all knew it - and there was nothing wrong with that. 

Over the last couple of years, most our big characters have left and not been replaced with similar and that is the fault of Webber and Smith.  

On the back of Farke going, we lost several of his key players and on top of that we had Smith, who was a weak manager, reducing training sessions by half, talking about " asking the players what they think" and deconstructing what had gone before without replacing it with a clear method that players could buy into. 

So the shambles of sacking Farke and not replacing him with someone of similar ilk is the one big factor in all this. We have wasted two seasons as a result, with a lack of direction and poor recruitment. Webber ought to have gone on the strength of that imo, but as he is staying he at least has the chance to put that right and getting Barnes in is a step in the right direction.

 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

Was going to say, this notion that Farke didn't like leaders seems off. Zimbo was definitely a leader. Got the impression Rupp, Vrancic and Stiepermann were quiet enforcers in that dressing room as well in terms of setting standards in training, and he brought Hanley in.