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2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Point missed entirely whoever you are.

I get the point you are raising, I was not in favour of this change but just reporting what the decision was.

the club will decide which fan groups to invite each two years, there is no guarantee that they will be invited each time as depends on member numbers.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mr_Biff1961 said:

Each selected group will have 1 member to represent them and serve for two years.

 

 

 

That shouldn't be too difficult to get someone from the vast majority of those groups as they only represent one man and his dog. Take out the Trust and Forces2Forces and the rest would struggle.

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2 minutes ago, Mr_Biff1961 said:

I get the point you are raising, I was not in favour of this change but just reporting what the decision was.

the club will decide which fan groups to invite each two years, there is no guarantee that they will be invited each time as depends on member numbers.

 

 

Were you the only dissenting voice against this change because if you weren't it appears to club are riding roughshod over the views from the OSP ?

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11 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

That shouldn't be too difficult to get someone from the vast majority of those groups as they only represent one man and his dog. Take out the Trust and Forces2Forces and the rest would struggle.

Forces2canaries would jump at the chance of joining if the club threw in a walk round the pitch on match day 

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34 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Your avatar and username give no clue to your actual identity so if you are one of these guys who does not want to tell us your identity rather defeats the object of being a fans representative don't you think ?

I’d hazard a guess that Mr Biff is a 61/62 year old bloke.

On the other hand could all be a bluff and he/she hasn’t posted on the forum since 1961 ( big smile )

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10 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Were you the only dissenting voice against this change because if you weren't it appears to club are riding roughshod over the views from the OSP ?

I expressed my concerns and these were taken on board,,, one of ththe points I raised that you could form a group of you and your dog and expect an invite! In fact Sam said he met both members of one fan group while in America!

Although we don’t vote, it’s usually a consensus of opinion that is carried forward

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3 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

I’d hazard a guess that Mr Biff is a 61/62 year old bloke.

On the other hand could all be a bluff and he/she hasn’t posted on the forum since 1961 ( big smile )

Great detective work!  
 

 

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17 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

3. Supporter Panel reform - ALL

This was the final meeting of the Supporter Panel before some members step off at the end of their term. Proposals to reform the Supporter Panel to include representation from supporter groups was discussed and agreed. The Panel gave recommendations of how this should operate, and the club will now amend the Panel’s Terms of Reference and formally invite the identified groups to join the Panel for the start of the new season.

Now unless i have misunderstood this but if those standing down from the OSP are to be replaced by members from existing supporters Groups what on earth is the point of that as the club already consult so we are told with these supporters groups on a regular basis ?

Has election from the fanbase at large to the OSP been kicked into touch by the club and they are deciding who they consult with which sounds a little bit like North Korean democracy ?

@Lessingham Canary

Easiest way to answer your point Tilly is, to give continuity to the panel half the group will remain for another 12 months, all were given the option of reapplying or stepping down as we all signed up for an agreed 2 years period. In light of the latest government white paper and the changes within it from the original Crouch report the club has decided to allow certain groups to put a representative forward for a seat on the panel.

The original panel members staying on for a further 12 months. will be replaced by supporters who will be elected as per original basis of membership, so election process is delayed and not completely kicked into touch. The EFL  is encouraging clubs to have more involvement with trusts, as the feeling is supporters trusts will help protect clubs from major changes that fans are opposed to, that may well put a club at risk.

 

Groups have been identified (by the club, not the panel) for a variety of reasons, and some may not take up a place, some will be disappointed they are not involved at this stage, but may well be in some way in the future. Some already have dialogue with the club more than others, what this looks like going forward is anybody's guess at the moment, and in the case of the trust they have it in their terms that they have 4 meetings a year with the club and that will continue, certainly for the foreseeable. 

Someone once said change is a challenge, not a threat, and i believe that is case here and as always only time will tell.

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10 hours ago, WD40 said:

Live out of area but get a ticket when I’m in the area (usually river end cos that’s available), and have got many funny looks yelling when sat there. Maybe I hurled too many expletives at Danny Fox…

Glad you get to go. You must have seen first hand that everyone behaves like a happy clapper. It's not an age thing except us old codgers are more likely to kick off about stuff. The idea that us duffers sit in silence is perpetuated by folk who never go...

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41 minutes ago, Lessingham Canary said:

Easiest way to answer your point Tilly is, to give continuity to the panel half the group will remain for another 12 months, all were given the option of reapplying or stepping down as we all signed up for an agreed 2 years period. In light of the latest government white paper and the changes within it from the original Crouch report the club has decided to allow certain groups to put a representative forward for a seat on the panel.

The original panel members staying on for a further 12 months. will be replaced by supporters who will be elected as per original basis of membership, so election process is delayed and not completely kicked into touch. The EFL  is encouraging clubs to have more involvement with trusts, as the feeling is supporters trusts will help protect clubs from major changes that fans are opposed to, that may well put a club at risk.

 

Groups have been identified (by the club, not the panel) for a variety of reasons, and some may not take up a place, some will be disappointed they are not involved at this stage, but may well be in some way in the future. Some already have dialogue with the club more than others, what this looks like going forward is anybody's guess at the moment, and in the case of the trust they have it in their terms that they have 4 meetings a year with the club and that will continue, certainly for the foreseeable. 

Someone once said change is a challenge, not a threat, and i believe that is case here and as always only time will tell.

Hope some of our PUPs are staying on.

Edited by nutty nigel
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Just now, nutty nigel said:

Hope some of our PUPs are staying on.

The answer to that is no apart from Lessingham if you read the thread Nutty.

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5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The answer to that is no apart from Lessingham if you read the thread Nutty.

If Lessingham is staying on the man from delmonte says yes.

 

Edited by nutty nigel
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@Lessingham Canary

Thanks for the feedback. The Crouch Report position on Trusts seems very sound and desirable. NCFC have more than 25% of shares in the hands of minority shareholders but around only 1% in the hands of the Canaries Trust. Let's hope it can change both those figures significantly in the near future.

What is really puzzling is why, given it's own apparent commitment in the past to fan share ownership being the future, it feels a need to rely on 'one man and his dog' groups to represent fans in the interim?

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3 minutes ago, essex canary said:

@Lessingham Canary

Thanks for the feedback. The Crouch Report position on Trusts seems very sound and desirable. NCFC have more than 25% of shares in the hands of minority shareholders but around only 1% in the hands of the Canaries Trust. Let's hope it can change both those figures significantly in the near future.

What is really puzzling is why, given it's own apparent commitment in the past to fan share ownership being the future, it feels a need to rely on 'one man and his dog' groups to represent fans in the interim?

could well be 'one woman and her dog'

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11 minutes ago, essex canary said:

@Lessingham Canary

Thanks for the feedback. The Crouch Report position on Trusts seems very sound and desirable. NCFC have more than 25% of shares in the hands of minority shareholders but around only 1% in the hands of the Canaries Trust. Let's hope it can change both those figures significantly in the near future.

What is really puzzling is why, given it's own apparent commitment in the past to fan share ownership being the future, it feels a need to rely on 'one man and his dog' groups to represent fans in the interim?

I think we should wait and see who is invited

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1 hour ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

I’d hazard a guess that Mr Biff is a 61/62 year old bloke.

On the other hand could all be a bluff and he/she hasn’t posted on the forum since 1961 ( big smile )

Possible divorcee? 

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35 minutes ago, essex canary said:

@Lessingham Canary

Thanks for the feedback. The Crouch Report position on Trusts seems very sound and desirable. NCFC have more than 25% of shares in the hands of minority shareholders but around only 1% in the hands of the Canaries Trust. Let's hope it can change both those figures significantly in the near future.

What is really puzzling is why, given it's own apparent commitment in the past to fan share ownership being the future, it feels a need to rely on 'one man and his dog' groups to represent fans in the interim?

I think it's a difficult balance for the club. Originally we were of the opinion (although I don't want to speak out of turn) that the OSP should remain as just nominated fans, but it was clear that the club wanted to have some supporter group representation also, as @Lessingham Canary says, due to the recommendations in the govt white paper.  Can you have 1 supporters group and 11 fans?  2 and 10? And so on and so forth.  The easy decision of course is to split it 50/50, so that's the route the club has taken.

As someone standing down from the panel, I don't personally believe it's the best course of action, but the OSP has been either forgotten about by fans in general or overshadowed by the Trust.  So perhaps this new way of organising the OSP will help it flourish.  My fear is that the meetings get bogged down in the different agendas each group has, but that is for the nominated Chair from the club to resolve and for the terms of reference of the OSP to be stringently followed.

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For the record, as an outgoing member, I feel the club has certainly been a little unclear on the purpose of the panel over the past two years. In that time we have had four different people 'in charge' of us, and I don't think there's been as much joined-up thinking as there could have been.

However, when Zoe went through all the things we'd had a hand in during our tenure, I'm confident that we have been of some use to the club. I think the main problem has been communicating to the other fan groups (and the wider fanbase) exactly what our role is, and where/how we dovetail with them.

If we have half a dozen elected fans on the panel as well as half a dozen from various supporter groups, I personally think that's a more productive way of getting lots of voices around the table. As @ncfcstar said, though, it's going to be a tough gig for the club's chair to steer conversation away from groups' individual agendas. 

I was one of the members in favour of the proposed changes. As long as the combined panel has a broad enough demographic reach that it adequately represents our fanbase at large, and as long as those associated with individual groups can stay 'on piste' with the proposed topics of conversation and not try to make it about them and their membership, I think the new format is more likely to get stuff done.

The club will find it harder to ignore/placate dissenting voices representing established fan groups than it would to ignore a group of 12 people with no prior knowledge of one another who don't tend to communicate publicly with other fans at large (other than the odd post on here). That's not to say I feel we've been ignored over the past two years, but just that between the 12 of us we've always striven for diplomatic solutions and have been finding our feet as a panel too. The new format should allow for more challenging and pressing questions to come directly from the fanbase, in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, essex canary said:

@Lessingham Canary

Thanks for the feedback. The Crouch Report position on Trusts seems very sound and desirable. NCFC have more than 25% of shares in the hands of minority shareholders but around only 1% in the hands of the Canaries Trust. Let's hope it can change both those figures significantly in the near future.

What is really puzzling is why, given it's own apparent commitment in the past to fan share ownership being the future, it feels a need to rely on 'one man and his dog' groups to represent fans in the interim?

Anything is preferable to the " One man and his Shares" option. 

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7 hours ago, ncfcstar said:

 

And, I'm pleased to say that the taps in the South Stand are being replaced in the summer.  My two years were worth it for that alone.

I am so glad your efforts have paid dividends.
I am the supporter who regularly complains about the shocking PA and asked Feedthewolf to bring it up at the meeting and apart from acknowledging my emails and offering to meet me on a match day (but never turning up) nothing has changed and I don't imagine it ever will.
Having sat in the directors box at  two cup finals in the last week it would seem that the problem is not confined to the area of my season ticket.
Perhaps the answer is question time at the AGM

 

 

Edited by Grumpy

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6 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

I am so glad your efforts have paid dividends.
I am the supporter who regularly complains about the shocking PA and asked Feedthewolf to bring it up at the meeting and apart from acknowledging my emails and offering to meet me on a match day (but never turning up) nothing has changed and I don't imagine it ever will.
Having sat in the directors box at  two cup finals in the last week it would seem that the problem is not confined to the area of my season ticket.
Perhaps the answer is question time at the AGM

Elliot said that he personally has sat in/near your area of the ground, and other colleagues have also monitored it, and they don't perceive it to be a problem. There have also been no other complaints about it from people in your vicinity. Sorry it's not the answer you want, but I did raise it as requested.

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30 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Elliot said that he personally has sat in/near your area of the ground, and other colleagues have also monitored it, and they don't perceive it to be a problem. There have also been no other complaints about it from people in your vicinity. Sorry it's not the answer you want, but I did raise it as requested.

I appreciate your efforts,thank you.
With respect,their response is questionable and perception nonsense.
With the added attraction of streaming TV it would seem that I am likely to be joining what appears to be a large section of posters on this site and become an armchair supporter for most of next season so perhaps its time to let it go.

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55 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

I appreciate your efforts,thank you.
With respect,their response is questionable and perception nonsense.
With the added attraction of streaming TV it would seem that I am likely to be joining what appears to be a large section of posters on this site and become an armchair supporter for most of next season so perhaps its time to let it go.

To be fair, if nobody else in your area has complained, and the club have checked it out and also found no issues, perhaps the issue is with your perception? I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but that would be a logical conclusion to reach if nobody else has the same problem?

Either way, I hope it doesn't stop you from going next season. You're a long time retired, as they say! Enjoy the summer.

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1 hour ago, Grumpy said:

I appreciate your efforts,thank you.
With respect,their response is questionable and perception nonsense.
With the added attraction of streaming TV it would seem that I am likely to be joining what appears to be a large section of posters on this site and become an armchair supporter for most of next season so perhaps its time to let it go.

Get some earplugs from Amazon, stick them in your pocket, use them when you want, job done 

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3 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

 

I was one of the members in favour of the proposed changes. As long as the combined panel has a broad enough demographic reach that it adequately represents our fanbase at large, and as long as those associated with individual groups can stay 'on piste' with the proposed topics of conversation and not try to make it about them and their membership, I think the new format is more likely to get stuff done.

 

Sorry to keep banging on about my one man and his dog take on the vast majority of these fans groups wolfie but these groups apart from Forces2Forces and the Trust do not have a membership . They are literally a handful at most of NCFC supporters who have decided to call themselves XYZ Canaries or whatever and sort recognition as such from the Club. No accountability to anybody by way of a constitution or elected officers etc.

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5 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Possible divorcee? 

The clincher would be if he gets drunk and sits in the Snakepit ( apparently )

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13 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Sorry to keep banging on about my one man and his dog take on the vast majority of these fans groups wolfie but these groups apart from Forces2Forces and the Trust do not have a membership . They are literally a handful at most of NCFC supporters who have decided to call themselves XYZ Canaries or whatever and sort recognition as such from the Club. No accountability to anybody by way of a constitution or elected officers etc.

I take your point, Tilly. Nothing more to say, really, until we know who the new panel members are and who they represent. I'll certainly be interested to see how they do it.

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5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I take your point, Tilly. Nothing more to say, really, until we know who the new panel members are and who they represent. I'll certainly be interested to see how they do it.

Me too.

I suppose the concern (it’s not really a concern but I can’t think of a particularly appropriate word) is that it’s the same faces that get wheeled out by the club and Newsquest and Radio Norfolk for everything else. The OSP as it was seemed to have a better cross-section to me.

There are any number of “fan groups” that might be considered to be cosy with the club and as Tilly has mentioned, I haven’t a clue who they represent or would even claim to represent or even why the people they might represent are any more important than anyone else.

Still, this is all guesswork, I may be pleasantly surprised! 

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