How would/do you think we will go about reshaping the squad?

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

I'll start by saying that I'm approaching this from what I consider a realistic angle. That being Webber and Wagner will both remain in their positions and we will be building towards Wagner's desired physical pressing system.  I think it's also safe to assume that we will be looking to shrink our wage expenditure fairly significantly as well as keeping the average age low.

Goalkeepers - Gunn is #1 and that's perfectly fine. Whilst clearly on the decline Krul is also a perfectly acceptable backup. Obviously if there is any interest in Tim Krul then the club should probably act on it as he's almost certainly a top earner.

Wingback - I think this is probably one of the more important positions in Wagner's system and also one where we might be able to make some decent cash through sales. It's gotten to a point where Max Aarons is pretty much a must sell and I also believe Giannoulis could potentially attract an acceptable fee. 

In terms of replacements we need to be be signing players from the school of four times Coup de France winning manager Daft Punk. We need 2 wingbacks who are harder, better, faster and stronger than what we currently have. I believe 'better' might have been mistranslated and he actually meant 'bigger' as height is something we need in that position. For that reason Bali Mumba is not a wingback.

Centre-back - We need 4 of them. That's 4 not including youth players we clearly don't rate enough or midfielders who can 'do a job' but actually can't. Obviously the ideal scenario would probably be scamming Uncle Gibson for a few million but I think we're dreaming there.

Defensive midfield - We need to sign one. Who'd have thought?

Central midfield - Probably one of our stronger positions and with Sara, Kenny, Nunez and Sorensen it is pretty well balanced. I've seen plenty suggesting that Sara one we should sell but I disagree. Barring a stupid offer his value is in playing a key role in our team next season. If anyone leaves here to free up a spot it's Sorensen.

Winger - Along with wingback this our most important position to get right if we're going to change our fortunes. Make as much money as we can selling Rashica, Tzolis and Placheta and dissolve Hernandez's contract (he loves the club so much he'll probably do it for free). 

We obviously need 2 or 3 wingers to join depending on if Rowe and Mumba impress over the summer.

Forward - I'm perfectly happy with Sargent, Idah plus one more and as I've stated on other threads Ashley Barnes makes a lot of sense. My only concern  here would be the 'shadow striker' Wagner likes to use. I really don't think Idah and Sargent have impressed in that position. It's also a bit awkward as the closest we have to a more traditional 10 is Nunez and he's not been great there either.

Fascinating summer ahead.

Edited May 8, 2023 by KeiranShikari

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

I'm pretty sure they're not going to cancel Onels contract considering he's only just signed it.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,620]

Might as well just copy and paste the post I made a few days ago on a similar thread:

 

"Assuming Wagner sticks with his 4-2-3-1 system, which he has always preferred:

Goalkeeper. We need to find someone to take Krul's wages off our hands and then sign a cheaper backup to Gunn.

Two right backs. I assume Aarons will be sold, Byram will be released and Mumba is excelling as an attacking wing-back, so would maybe be better suited to playing on the wing. 

Centre back. Hanley will miss the start of the season anyway, and we need a serious addition to add to him, Gibson and Omobamidele. Tomkinson can cover until Hanley is back. 

Left back. I think McCallum has potential but Giannoulis is inconsistent and pretty spineless when the chips are down. 

Central midfielder. I'd keep Sara, McLean and Gibbs, but Sorensen doesn't seem to be strong enough mentally or physically so I'd bring in a proper defensive midfielder to replace him. 

Attacking midfielder. I'd give Nuñez another chance in this role, but he needs competition. 

Two wingers. We've got Hernandez signed up and Mumba is coming back, but Placheta isn't good enough and I'm not fully convinced yet that Rowe or Tzolis can be relied upon. 

Striker. Sargent and Idah are both committed and have excellent physical qualities despite lacking technical ones, so a more technical striker to replace Pukki is needed.

So that's ten players."

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

I'd actually forgotten about Gibbs. His best performance came when he playing behind the striker. Certainly don't want him deep in midfield next season anyway.

[Monty13 2,736]

I think the problem with the Goalkeeping situation is we clearly don’t need Krul and Gunn, yet I can only see money being offered for Gunn.

I think a loan out for Krul makes the most sense but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gunn depart and Tim back as no 1 for his final season despite what a poor idea I think that is. I certainly doubt it’s off the table.

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

I think Gunn has been good but not good enough to demand a Premier League move. I also can't see him moving considering he's only really just cemented himself in a team for the first time in years.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,960]

How would/do you think we will go about reshaping the squad?

What he said.

OTBC

[shefcanary 2,955]

21 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I'm pretty sure they're not going to cancel Onels contract considering he's only just signed it.

And Kenny has had his extended too. Completely stifles the prospect of a rebuild.

If we are going to be following 4-3-3 then wing backs and wingers are out. But we have Onel?! And our current full backs can't defend! Not one! Unless the wingbacks can be converted to wide midfielders / wide strikers (Mumba I think would be able to do the wide midfielder one, not sure if the other three would want to do that).

Today yet again we failed to upick a mass defence so we have to find a creative attacking midfielder who can do this. Plus the defensive midfielder (and back up in case of injury). Then two centre backs as Hanley is out for half a season and we were down to 3 anyway.

I'm struggling to see how this can be achieved in one transfer window and still play the way Wagner wants. I'm resigned to three windows at least until we turn this ship around.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035]

Many things need to /will happen in the summer to give us a fighting chance to revamp this squad

1) parachute payments

2) player releases to free up wages

3) Raschica sale to Galatasaray

4) Sell on clause for James Maddison

5) Investment from Anatassio

6) returning players from loans..i.d Mumba

7)...other player sales

All of these must be directed to playing staff strengthening.

...we then need a manager to somehow completely revamp this team's playing style in one summer

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

36 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

I'll start by saying that I'm approaching this from what I consider a realistic angle. That being Webber and Wagner will both remain in their positions and we will be building towards Wagner's desired physical pressing system.  I think it's also safe to assume that we will be looking to shrink our wage expenditure fairly significantly as well as keeping the average age low.

Goalkeepers - Gunn is #1 and that's perfectly fine. Whilst clearly on the decline Krul is also a perfectly acceptable backup. Obviously if there is any interest in Tim Krul then the club should probably act on it as he's almost certainly a top earner.

Wingback - I think this is probably one of the more important positions in Wagner's system and also one where we might be able to make some decent cash through sales. It's gotten to a point where Max Aarons is pretty much a must sell and I also believe Giannoulis could potentially attract an acceptable fee. 

In terms of replacements we need to be be signing players from the school of four times Coup de France winning manager Daft Punk. We need 2 wingbacks who are harder, better, faster and stronger than what we currently have. I believe 'better' might have been mistranslated and he actually meant 'bigger' as height is something we need in that position. For that reason Bali Mumba is not a wingback.

Centre-back - We need 4 of them. That's 4 not including youth players we clearly don't rate enough or midfielders who can 'do a job' but actually can't. Obviously the ideal scenario would probably be scamming Uncle Gibson for a few million but I think we're dreaming there.

Defensive midfield - We need to sign one. Who'd have thought?

Central midfield - Probably one of our stronger positions and with Sara, Kenny, Nunez and Sorensen it is pretty well balanced. I've seen plenty suggesting that Sara one we should sell but I disagree. Barring a stupid offer his value is in playing a key role in our team next season. If anyone leaves here to free up a spot it's Sorensen.

Winger - Along with wingback this our most important position to get right if we're going to change our fortunes. Make as much money as we can selling Rashica, Tzolis and Placheta and dissolve Hernandez's contract (he loves the club so much he'll probably do it for free). 

We obviously need 2 or 3 wingers to join depending on if Rowe and Mumba impress over the summer.

Forward - I'm perfectly happy with Sargent, Idah plus one more and as I've stated on other threads Ashley Barnes makes a lot of sense. My only concern  here would be the 'shadow striker' Wagner likes to use. I really don't think Idah and Sargent have impressed in that position. It's also a bit awkward as the closest we have to a more traditional 10 is Nunez and he's not been great there either.

Fascinating summer ahead.

Is it possible to fire them all and just start again? 

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

4 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Many things need to /will happen in the summer to give us a fighting chance to revamp this squad

1) parachute payments

2) player releases to free up wages

3) Raschica sale to Galatasaray

4) Sell on clause for James Maddison

5) Investment from Anatassio

6) returning players from loans..i.d Mumba

7)...other player sales

All of these must be directed to playing staff strengthening.

...we then need a manager to somehow completely revamp this team's playing style in one summer

 

We are 44 million in debt I highly highly doubt we will spend more than 2-3 million on one player. A majority of the signings will be loans or free transfers mark my words. 

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

If Barnes is coming then a leader is on the way. Need a few sales just to trim the wage bill down. We already know Dowell, Byram and McGovern are on their way, Pukki's gone too. Suspect all except McGovern are amongst the bigger earners. Doubt we'll see much change up top from Idah, Sargent and presumably Barnes.

I'd like to see us play wing-backs or the Christmas Tree to jam up the middle of the park a little bit more (and that should also hide any weaknesses in defensive midfield somewhat, or indeed Lungi's relative lack of pace), but I think the younger wingers (Rowe, maybe Springett, Tzolis) might get more of a look. Would be happy to see Rashica sold and if good offers come in for Gibson and Aarons I'd happily take those. Really want to see how Mumba slots in, if he can. Suspect he's going to end up an inverted winger.

But what we're seeing is a team lacking confidence, shorn of its leaders due to injury. A hard pre-season awaits, but hopefully Wagner gets some really hard fitness work into them so that it'll be easier to get a disciplined press out of them.

 

[Commonsense 802]

1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

I'll start by saying that I'm approaching this from what I consider a realistic angle. That being Webber and Wagner will both remain in their positions and we will be building towards Wagner's desired physical pressing system.  I think it's also safe to assume that we will be looking to shrink our wage expenditure fairly significantly as well as keeping the average age low.

Goalkeepers - Gunn is #1 and that's perfectly fine. Whilst clearly on the decline Krul is also a perfectly acceptable backup. Obviously if there is any interest in Tim Krul then the club should probably act on it as he's almost certainly a top earner.

Wingback - I think this is probably one of the more important positions in Wagner's system and also one where we might be able to make some decent cash through sales. It's gotten to a point where Max Aarons is pretty much a must sell and I also believe Giannoulis could potentially attract an acceptable fee. 

In terms of replacements we need to be be signing players from the school of four times Coup de France winning manager Daft Punk. We need 2 wingbacks who are harder, better, faster and stronger than what we currently have. I believe 'better' might have been mistranslated and he actually meant 'bigger' as height is something we need in that position. For that reason Bali Mumba is not a wingback.

Centre-back - We need 4 of them. That's 4 not including youth players we clearly don't rate enough or midfielders who can 'do a job' but actually can't. Obviously the ideal scenario would probably be scamming Uncle Gibson for a few million but I think we're dreaming there.

Defensive midfield - We need to sign one. Who'd have thought?

Central midfield - Probably one of our stronger positions and with Sara, Kenny, Nunez and Sorensen it is pretty well balanced. I've seen plenty suggesting that Sara one we should sell but I disagree. Barring a stupid offer his value is in playing a key role in our team next season. If anyone leaves here to free up a spot it's Sorensen.

Winger - Along with wingback this our most important position to get right if we're going to change our fortunes. Make as much money as we can selling Rashica, Tzolis and Placheta and dissolve Hernandez's contract (he loves the club so much he'll probably do it for free). 

We obviously need 2 or 3 wingers to join depending on if Rowe and Mumba impress over the summer.

Forward - I'm perfectly happy with Sargent, Idah plus one more and as I've stated on other threads Ashley Barnes makes a lot of sense. My only concern  here would be the 'shadow striker' Wagner likes to use. I really don't think Idah and Sargent have impressed in that position. It's also a bit awkward as the closest we have to a more traditional 10 is Nunez and he's not been great there either.

Fascinating summer ahead.

You lost me with the phrase’ I’m perfectly happy with Sargent, Idah’ WTF. They are not good enough!

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

12 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

But what we're seeing is a team lacking confidence, shorn of its leaders due to injury. A hard pre-season awaits, but hopefully Wagner gets some really hard fitness work into them so that it'll be easier to get a disciplined press out of them.

 

I largely agree with this.  After the little run that culminated in us beating Millwall, I’m sure no one could have foreseen what was to come in the next 11 games, but we saw a strange loss of form and a string of injuries to key players that did really seem to take its toll - far more than it should have done.  The season couldn’t come to an end quick enough.

There is still the nucleus of a decent squad, bit with an obvious refresh required - either by Wagner or someone else.   A hard summer of fitness/bonding is on the cards. I think Wagner will stay - and I’m just about ok with that.

One thing I think we all agree is that DM is a absolute must (not heard that before…) and we need to have 4 ‘proper’ cbs in the squad before relying on part-timers.

[chicken 3,087]

Steps:
1) Flounce around the office with your hands on your head, pulling your hair out if you have any left.
2) Angrily throw all of the little magnets off the magnet tactics board, stamp on them, before rubbing off the names and throwing the white board eraser straight through the nearest window leading to the outside world, preferably through the pane of glass.
3) Throw your now cold mug of tea at a wall, if it fails to smash, you aren't angry enough, be disappointed. Let that disappointment energise the next attempt so it breaks.
4) Pick up the phone and just scream into it. Loudly.
5) Upturn your desk. Just do it. 
6) Sit back down into your office chair, put your head in your hands and sob quietly.

Oh, you said realistically. 

[Fen Canary 1,456]

4 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

You lost me with the phrase’ I’m perfectly happy with Sargent, Idah’ WTF. They are not good enough!

Sargent I think is fine, especially at this level. He scored 13 I think this season despite spending half of it shunted out on the wing or back in midfield so if he’s left to lead the line next season I’d expect him to finish up with around 20 

[Fen Canary 1,456]

I think the squad needs some experience down the spine of the team. Gunn is plenty good enough for this division, but we need some grit and graft through the middle. Experienced centre backs, defensive midfielder, bit more pace and athleticism and another striker

[chicken 3,087]

On a serious note, Wagner has already said he doesn't play wing backs and says Mumba will be a full back for him. It's in the pinkun article about Wagner holding him in his plans for next season.

We need a bedrock of grafters. Players 26-30 odd who know this league and know that before you can play fancy tippy tappy stuff you need to earn the right to have that ball. Ideally someone who is also prepared to take a pot at goal from 20yrds too. Too many trying to score 5yrd tap ins. Sometimes a good wallop means teams know they have to come out to pressure, which opens a bit of space for through balls etc.

For me, where I would start is a 26yr old CB with decent amount of experience, and probably a 2nd who is in that 25-30 range. A championship DM. And a couple of creative players. Not talking about Hernandez creative here, but more central. Players who can pull strings.

Much depends upon who is sold and/or who signs new contracts. Not beyond belief that Aarons may yet stay - though unlikely. 

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

11 minutes ago, chicken said:

On a serious note, Wagner has already said he doesn't play wing backs and says Mumba will be a full back for him. It's in the pinkun article about Wagner holding him in his plans for next season.
 

In Jens Leyman's terms I don't think there's much between attacking fullbacks with really high starting positions and wingbacks. I had seen the comments about Mumba being seen as a defender which is why i said that he shouldn't be.

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

25 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Sargent I think is fine, especially at this level. He scored 13 I think this season despite spending half of it shunted out on the wing or back in midfield so if he’s left to lead the line next season I’d expect him to finish up with around 20 

Yes, it’s a little unfair given the clamour for Pukki to sign an extension based on a much worse season…but Sargent is seen as ‘not good enough’. Teemu clearly had credit in the bank from seasons gone by but in truth the last few months for me showed that he’s nowhere near the level he was two seasons ago.

[Petriix 3,219]

The sad thing is that every signing I would make would be trying to undo the transfer windows from the past two seasons; unfortunately we couldn't possibly afford to buy the calibre of player that we've lost. Worse still is that we're saddled with a bunch of expensive failures on high wages and long contracts, compounded by giving further contracts to players who have already proven demonstrably not good enough.

First of all we need to get Rashica permanently out of the club, recouping whatever we can. Then we should find loan moves for Idah and Tzolis in League One to help them develop without depending on them in the near future (and make it impossible for us to keep playing them in midfield). If we can somehow get Krul's wages off the books then that should happen too.

Once we've dealt with who is leaving we need to make sure no one good gets sold. Sara is the one positive from this season. Aarons needs to stay too, so does Omobamidele. 

Then we need to look at where we're weakest and build from there. We're extremely lacking in central defenders so need to sign two if not three. Sorensen is adequate backup at CDM but we need a quality signing there. Wide midfield is a massive problem - if Onel is the best we have then we need to sign two better players plus a third for competition and backup. Finally we need a quick striker.

Of course most of this won't happen. Tzolis and Idah will continue to be played on the wings and Onel will be a regular starter. We'll probably sign a couple more winger/strikers but no CDM. We'll sell Aarons and Sara. Then we'll loan in an injured 35 year old utility player. 

[chicken 3,087]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

We are 44 million in debt I highly highly doubt we will spend more than 2-3 million on one player. A majority of the signings will be loans or free transfers mark my words. 

We are not £44million in debt in the way that you suggest. The money has been allocated for that already with slated income. So parachute payments, player sales instalments etc. And that was before the already known about investment from Attanasio that was said to be around £10m wasn't it?

We know these new shares have already been sold, we just don't know how much for or to who, just yet. That will generate another pot of money for the club. Again, the next question will be what will they spend it on? Infrastructure - new City stand? Or squad?

We did well in the first couple of seasons with Farke and Webber, and the most we spent was £1m-£1.5m on players. That worked. We don't have to spend masses. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we generally do better when we don't splash the cash. Certainly didn't with Lambert. Best big buys we've had are probably Brady and Klose, arguably Sargent too - mainly because he's better than Wolfswinkel, Naismith, Rashica... 

[chicken 3,087]

22 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Yes, it’s a little unfair given the clamour for Pukki to sign an extension based on a much worse season…but Sargent is seen as ‘not good enough’. Teemu clearly had credit in the bank from seasons gone by but in truth the last few months for me showed that he’s nowhere near the level he was two seasons ago.

And lets be honest, if he is, as rumoured, heading to Helsinki, then he's doing so to see out his career. I suspect he may have been destined to another club last summer. I'm not criticising him, but if he was still as good as people are saying he is, he'd be going to a Bundesliga team or to Holland etc. Obviously only rumour at this time.

[chicken 3,087]

35 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

In Jens Leyman's terms I don't think there's much between attacking fullbacks with really high starting positions and wingbacks. I had seen the comments about Mumba being seen as a defender which is why i said that he shouldn't be.

Please don't see this as being overly critical or anything, but if you are asking "how do you think we will go about" and we have a known, then surely that has to be part of the bit we know we will go about doing it? 
 

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

I would personally delete the save and start a new team...

oh wait, this isnt FM........

 

F   C    U    K 

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

14 minutes ago, chicken said:

Please don't see this as being overly critical or anything, but if you are asking "how do you think we will go about" and we have a known, then surely that has to be part of the bit we know we will go about doing it? 
 

Honestly, I'm just coping with the Mumba thing. I'm holding out hope that we aren't going to be doing the fullback constantly beaten in the air thing again. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

10 hours ago, chicken said:

We are not £44million in debt in the way that you suggest. The money has been allocated for that already with slated income. So parachute payments, player sales instalments etc. And that was before the already known about investment from Attanasio that was said to be around £10m wasn't it?

We know these new shares have already been sold, we just don't know how much for or to who, just yet. That will generate another pot of money for the club. Again, the next question will be what will they spend it on? Infrastructure - new City stand? Or squad?

We did well in the first couple of seasons with Farke and Webber, and the most we spent was £1m-£1.5m on players. That worked. We don't have to spend masses. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we generally do better when we don't splash the cash. Certainly didn't with Lambert. Best big buys we've had are probably Brady and Klose, arguably Sargent too - mainly because he's better than Wolfswinkel, Naismith, Rashica... 

We took advantage of the lower European leagues which is something now we can’t do post brexit. Had we wanted to sign the next Buendia now from the Spanish 2nd division they would not qualify for a visa. 

[repman 754]

When I hear the word rebuild I think ok this is going to be a 2/3 year thing, not something that will miraculously click overnight. Because of that I would target young players who you hope to really come good in a year or so.

However I don't think Webber/Wagner are attempting this type of rebuild. They're staking their whole futures on this rebuild, and they know that they have next to no credit in the bank. It's clear they've come together and decided that the blame should be on the players, hence the fact they want to rip up the squad. However the need for a good performance next season will mean instead of targeting young players, they'll load us up with players 28+ on good wages and if it works that's great for them. If it doesn't they'll both inevitably lose their jobs and it won't be their responsibility to fix it 

[BigFish 2,283]

Three players + a couple of loans only, in order to improve the TEAM rather than spread the money too thinly across a squad that is "good enough" but toothless. This would include:

1. The famous defensive midfielder - one of the 2 in a 4231

2. A tall strong passing defender capable of playing across all the back four positions

3. A quick mobile attacking striker/AM to play off Sargeant/Idah as one of the 3 in 4231

4. Mumba returning

5. Loans to cover 1,2 and 3 to allow for acclimatization/injury.

[shefcanary 2,955]

4 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

We took advantage of the lower European leagues which is something now we can’t do post brexit. Had we wanted to sign the next Buendia now from the Spanish 2nd division they would not qualify for a visa. 

The GBE rules are changing. I've seen under new rules, that should be okayed by Parliament before the summer transfer window opens, that we should qualify (under homegrown players utilised in our teams in the season just ended) for 3 players who previously would have been caught by the Brexit rules. I don't think we previously had more than 3 per season coming in although after two seasons under Farke it may have seemed like we did, so really this window will be back to the future again and we could pick up some good European players. We should be able to find that next Buendia this window after all!