Two up top

[canarybubbles 1,915]

It just doesn't work with our strikers, does it?

Pukki and Sargent should work in theory: the tall guy to win knock-downs, the small guy to score off the pickings. But they always look as if they are on different planets. Pukki and Idah is similar. Sargent, and Idah to some extent, both lack the ball control on the ground to work alongside someone as intelligent as Pukki.

Sargent and Idah might work, but only if we went complete hoofball with two fast wingers and bombarded defences with high balls into the centre. Championship defences are used to this, though, and tend to be six foot plus. There would be goals but also lots of misses.

I think we need to decide what type of football we want to play, drop either Pukki or Sargent/Idah, and stop trying to shoehorn them into the same side.

[Capt. Pants 4,194]

No it doesn't work and Pukki isn't going to change the way he plays to suit it.

Neither is the answer to stick Sargent out on the wing just to accommodate him.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,776]

18 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

It just doesn't work with our strikers, does it?

Pukki and Sargent should work in theory: the tall guy to win knock-downs, the small guy to score off the pickings. But they always look as if they are on different planets. Pukki and Idah is similar. Sargent, and Idah to some extent, both lack the ball control on the ground to work alongside someone as intelligent as Pukki.

Sargent and Idah might work, but only if we went complete hoofball with two fast wingers and bombarded defences with high balls into the centre. Championship defences are used to this, though, and tend to be six foot plus. There would be goals but also lots of misses.

I think we need to decide what type of football we want to play, drop either Pukki or Sargent/Idah, and stop trying to shoehorn them into the same side.

I'm not so sure, they looked like they were forming a decent partnership last season in the Premier League before Idah got injured. It worked particularly well in the Everton game.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,672]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

No it doesn't work and Pukki isn't going to change the way he plays to suit it.

Neither is the answer to stick Sargent out on the wing just to accommodate him.

I mean you say this yet Pukki has become the record goal scorer for Finland while finland ALWAAYS play two up top and Pukki has another striker next to him and he does fine in that system so no clue why jt does not work for us

[Mason 47 1,373]

For me it's more that we end up top-heavy, with up to 5/6 players in the forward positions. It's very clear that we struggle to get the ball from back to front in an effective manner because most of our players are so high.

Playing two of our strikers means Pukki central, which means Sargent/ Idah as the wide/auxiliary man. This hurts Pukki, as the midfield lacks the numbers + technical ability to supply chances; it also hurts whoever the 2nd striker is as neither has the proclivity (or touch) to create or contribute meaningfully to the build up.

All season, we've needed one of the managers to be brave and accept we have to just play one striker. A very tough call, given the various intrigues of the upcoming summer; personally, if Teemu has indicated he's not staying for another Championship tilt, I'd be starting Sargent.

[NFN FC 1,118]

It is one of the 3 we need to play. Not 2, not 3, 1

[PockthorpePete 331]

Not sure who was on top, but Sargeant should have been replaced at half time. We don't need another Idah, Hugill cluttering up the place. Ignore the miss, he was totally ineffective.

[Petriix 2,834]

42 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

All season, we've needed one of the managers to be brave and accept we have to just play one striker. A very tough call, given the various intrigues of the upcoming summer; personally, if Teemu has indicated he's not staying for another Championship tilt, I'd be starting Sargent.

I totally agreed right up to the last bit. Pukki all the way with a midfield built on his strengths. We're missing players like Dowell, Cantwell and Vrancic who love dropping between the lines to pick up the ball. To an extent Nunez, Sara and Tzolis could fill those roles, but they need the solidity of a double pivot behind them. 

Basically a second striker sacrifices the second CDM. The midfield is where we're suffering because we're always outnumbered. Stoke had 5 to our 4 and Kenny was so deep it was effectively 3 most of the time. People say Sara was poor but he was basically on his own vs Stoke's central 3.

The biggest issue with going top-heavy is that it actually negates Pukki's biggest strengths. If we sit a bit deeper then we can transition rapidly and get in behind. Bypassing the midfield means Pukki is never given the space to run into. 

[CDMullins 436]

It doesn't matter who is upfront if you can't get the ball in the midfield.

[AJ 1,218]

The problem all season is we're trying to play a system that suits the players rather than play players that suit the system

[Barham Blitz 652]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

The problem all season is we're trying to play a system that suits the players rather than play players that suit the system

Paradoxically I don't think we've been doing either all season !  I'm not sure how given that you appear to have covered all bases in that comment mind ...

[AJ 1,218]

53 minutes ago, Barham Blitz said:

Paradoxically I don't think we've been doing either all season !  I'm not sure how given that you appear to have covered all bases in that comment mind ...

Well it's not hard to work out really, are either Idah or Sargent wingers? If not, why are we repeatedly playing them on the wings? Why aren't we channeling all our play through a central striker if that's what we appear to want to play instead of trying to fit Sargent and/or Idah into the team which then negates their strengths because we are playing them out of position. Part of that of course comes down to Webber as it's mainly his responsibility to provide a balanced squad and I don't think he ever actually has. It's more telling that latter point is probably the most true as we're now 3 managers deep and still repeatedly playing players out of their true positions

[Barham Blitz 652]

8 hours ago, AJ said:

Well it's not hard to work out really, are either Idah or Sargent wingers? If not, why are we repeatedly playing them on the wings? Why aren't we channeling all our play through a central striker if that's what we appear to want to play instead of trying to fit Sargent and/or Idah into the team which then negates their strengths because we are playing them out of position. Part of that of course comes down to Webber as it's mainly his responsibility to provide a balanced squad and I don't think he ever actually has. It's more telling that latter point is probably the most true as we're now 3 managers deep and still repeatedly playing players out of their true positions

I feel my meaning may not have been clear there - or at least the mild flippancy involved hasn't entirely come across ... 

My observation wasn't directed against your comment.  I was rather agreeing that we have indeed played multiple systems often (if not usually) unsuited to the players selected, but similarly pointing out that the players selected have also fairly regularly been unsuited to each of the systems employed.

Often at the same time ...