Who is our biggest donkey?

[All the Germans 1,075]

51 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Funny how some people can't see the Webber failures. It doesn't matter a hoot what he achieved 5 years ago. If it did, he wouldn't have sacked DF. His current achievements are what counts. In two years, he sacked a coach, replaced him with a failure, has brought in new players and not one can be considered a success or value for money apart from Angus.

We can moan about player performance as much as we like and some call them donkeys. But the man at the helm is the one causing this. He negotiated a deal whereby Ben Gibson cost £8M and  £41K a week in wages. He brought in a player knowing he was injured for the first 6 weeks of the season. And people think he is doing a good job because of the past. Any other club or business would have him under scrutiny or maybe especially as he can't give the club 100%.

I think there's a big difference between A) Seeing his failures. B) Demanding him leave. C) Seeing him as the second coming. He has undoubtedly made mistakes (in my opinion sacking Farke being chief among them) but people in the B) camp above are often the same that wants to sack a manager when you are unlikely to get a better one or make a substitute when you've got David Strihavka sitting on the bench. They call for change in hope that it might improve. A change is only worth it if it's for the better. 

If you have an idea whom could replace him that is better, brillaint. Otherwise, let's not repeat his mistake of sacking someone who has performed and replacing them with someone worse.

Just because people think it's bad now, it doesn't mean it can't get worse. A change that makes you worse is (shock) a bad idea. 

[norfolkngood 1,086]

3 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

idea whom could replace him that is better, brillaint. Otherwise, let's not repeat his mistake of sacking someone who has performed and replacing them with someone worse.

Just because people think it's bad now, it doesn't mean it can't get worse. A change that makes you worse is (shock) a bad idea. 

i think Webber has lost his way 

if you split the good from bad say in half since he has been here what do we get in the future the good or bad bit ? 

Emi Pukki Krul Farke signings have stopped Rashica Sarge Tzolis Hayden Smith signings have been more recent 

which is the real Webber the early one or the more recent ?

can he get the old times back ? 

i think he lost and never replaced Kieran Scott could be the same as Lambert and Culverhouse and the other good partnerships throughout football 

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, All the Germans said:

I think there's a big difference between A) Seeing his failures. B) Demanding him leave. C) Seeing him as the second coming. He has undoubtedly made mistakes (in my opinion sacking Farke being chief among them) but people in the B) camp above are often the same that wants to sack a manager when you are unlikely to get a better one or make a substitute when you've got David Strihavka sitting on the bench. They call for change in hope that it might improve. A change is only worth it if it's for the better. 

If you have an idea whom could replace him that is better, brillaint. Otherwise, let's not repeat his mistake of sacking someone who has performed and replacing them with someone worse.

Just because people think it's bad now, it doesn't mean it can't get worse. A change that makes you worse is (shock) a bad idea. 

I'd take a punt on Paul Ashworth. Has lots of experience overseas, currently sporting director for Spartak Moscow.

His brother is Dan Ashworth who did a great job in a similar role at Brighton and then left for Newcastle where he appointed Eddie Howe.

The fact that they were born and raised in Norwich as Norwich fans, and played for Norwich City at youth level, is a bonus. 

Sick of this Leeds fan hanging around taking his pay cheque after wasting £50m+ on dross in the market.

Keep seeing people say "who would we replace him with", there's almost as many sporting directors as managers out there... you can even just put an advert up and see who completes an application? Then interview them and pick the best candidate. 

Why is this seen as so complicated? If Ed Balls can find a sporting director then the Yanks can!

Edited March 19, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[ZLF 271]

Not sure we do actually have donkeys tbh.   We have players that we are not getting best not of or are simply past their best.   The latter may be revitalised with a new challenge and should be moved out in the summer.   

Trying to increase fitness in players out of confidence and lacking self motivation while having two games a week was also opening players to injury and tiredness. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

That poster who keeps bigging up the binners...

Edited March 19, 2023 by nutty nigel
😉

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

Luke Chambers 

The biggest donkey to ever steal a living as a professional footballer . 
 

I’m assuming the highly critical OP is a Binner? Just making him/her feel at home . 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Graham Paddons Beard

[hogesar 9,618]

Hanley is a very good Championship CB. His entire career evidences this.

There is an argument that trying to play out with him is going against everything he's naturally good at but Farke managed it to a decent point.

Gibson is very good on the ball for this level.

[CardiffCanary 128]

The ginger pele

[ridgeman 130]

6 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Funny how some people can't see the Webber failures. It doesn't matter a hoot what he achieved 5 years ago. If it did, he wouldn't have sacked DF. His current achievements are what counts. In two years, he sacked a coach, replaced him with a failure, has brought in new players and not one can be considered a success or value for money apart from Angus.

We can moan about player performance as much as we like and some call them donkeys. But the man at the helm is the one causing this. He negotiated a deal whereby Ben Gibson cost £8M and  £41K a week in wages. He brought in a player knowing he was injured for the first 6 weeks of the season. And people think he is doing a good job because of the past. Any other club or business would have him under scrutiny or maybe especially as he can't give the club 100%.

110%

[Capt. Pants 4,197]

If Webber is the donkey what does that say about his appointment of Wagner?

Is he (Webber) only a part-time donkey, or is the appointment of Wagner a 'yeah but' moment?

[Samwam27 519]

The only thing Webber does well imo, is sell our assets on at very large profits, which he has done well the last few years.

Unfortunately, just think we need a fresh approach as last two seasons the recruitments he's made have been utterly woeful

The only thing I hope changes is that Wagner has a big input into who we sign in summer. As to donkey, I desperately want an upgrade on Hanley! 

[Rhino1 292]

4 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Luke Chambers 

The biggest donkey to ever steal a living as a professional footballer . 
 

I’m assuming the highly critical OP is a Binner? Just making him/her feel at home . 

I have supported Norwich for over 50 years - and actual saw Paddon play, unlike you probably ! So cast your flawed accusations somewhere else preferably - - - - - - !

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

30 minutes ago, Rhino1 said:

I have supported Norwich for over 50 years - and actual saw Paddon play, unlike you probably ! So cast your flawed accusations somewhere else preferably - - - - - - !

Well if you are speaking about flawed accusations , I first saw Norwich play in 1972. I saw Paddon play plenty of times. 
 

Quite why a supporter for over 50 years would start a thread about a centre half who has been part of two championship winning sides , with the sole purpose of describing him as a donkey,  is very odd.

If you want a donkey , I’ll give you Steve Walsh. 

[Tumbleweed 106]

I don't think its helpful to start calling out individual current players as donkeys, I think one part of the issue is that some are just being hung out to dry in an unbalanced squad whose confidence had been shredded under Smith and is still fragile. Its a continuing mystery to me why the spine has not been a focus. Another younger pacier CB, the perpetual failure to bring in an uninjured DM to protect the CBs, and a No 10 which I just don't  think Sara or Nunez are and Dowell a bit too lightweight. Wheres Marco Stieperman when you need him? The spine is crying out for solidifying yet we brought in..........a wide man. Maybe this does indeed all come back to Webber but I don't think the players are able to be their best when we have the wrong balance in the squad.

[PockthorpePete 331]

19 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

I agree. I never go for this scapegoating, selecting an individual who can then do no right for evermore. Scapegoaters rarely change their tune.

However, from the four current main targets, McClean, Idah, Gibson and Hanley I wouldn't be unhappy to lose any one of them at the end of the season if the price was right, and we're not talking billions here, far, far from it. Enough to fund a new face or two though.

Having said that neither Hanley nor Gibson are anywhere near the worst defenders we've ever had. They are competent  Chumps level performers, nothing more, nothing less.

I suppose, and, like a few others it would seem, that I feel we need a complete clear-out. One poster mentioned "deadwood." None of these four are actually that, it's just that the time has come for a change, some new younger faces in central defence to complement Omo and a proper defensive midfielder.

That is incorrect. Nobody is being scapegoated. A scapegoat is "a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others". No poster is doing that. Comment is being made about the ability of certain players. Not that they are solely responsible for our failure, as you claim. There is a belief on here, which you appear to subscribe to, that criticism cannot be made of any player. However well argued it is, as it is merely part of some concerted effort. Rather than it being an individual view. Why not try rebutting the arguments instead ?

[king canary 7,580]

56 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

That is incorrect. Nobody is being scapegoated. A scapegoat is "a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others". No poster is doing that. Comment is being made about the ability of certain players. Not that they are solely responsible for our failure, as you claim. There is a belief on here, which you appear to subscribe to, that criticism cannot be made of any player. However well argued it is, as it is merely part of some concerted effort. Rather than it being an individual view. Why not try rebutting the arguments instead ?

Exactly. There is no word that gets misued more on this forum than 'scapegoat' as it seems to get used every time a player gets criticised.

 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

1 hour ago, PockthorpePete said:

That is incorrect. Nobody is being scapegoated. A scapegoat is "a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others". No poster is doing that. Comment is being made about the ability of certain players. Not that they are solely responsible for our failure, as you claim. There is a belief on here, which you appear to subscribe to, that criticism cannot be made of any player. However well argued it is, as it is merely part of some concerted effort. Rather than it being an individual view. Why not try rebutting the arguments instead ?

 

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

Exactly. There is no word that gets misued more on this forum than 'scapegoat' as it seems to get used every time a player gets criticised.

 

Surely Hanley (and to an extent Gibson) are being targeted as “donkeys” when the mistakes and faults are much more widely spread? From our unsuccessful recruitment (don’t mention Sara or Nunez though) to a soft midfield because of the lack of a strong Tettey-style  figure, there are issues all over the place. So starting a thread looking for one player to target is pure scapegoating. 
 

I despair sometimes at some of our “supporters” who seem to have no idea how to support - “to keep from weakening or failing; give confidence or comfort to.”

[king canary 7,580]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

 

Surely Hanley (and to an extent Gibson) are being targeted as “donkeys” when the mistakes and faults are much more widely spread? From our unsuccessful recruitment (don’t mention Sara or Nunez though) to a soft midfield because of the lack of a strong Tettey-style  figure, there are issues all over the place. So starting a thread looking for one player to target is pure scapegoating. 
 

I despair sometimes at some of our “supporters” who seem to have no idea how to support - “to keep from weakening or failing; give confidence or comfort to.”

Posting on a message board is not equal to support.

I was at the game on Saturday and supported my heart out for 90 minutes.

That is the support that matters. I highly doubt Grant Hanley is running onto the pitch thinking 'I can't believe those people on the pinkun don't believe in me.'

[Cowboy 197]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

 

Surely Hanley (and to an extent Gibson) are being targeted as “donkeys” when the mistakes and faults are much more widely spread? From our unsuccessful recruitment (don’t mention Sara or Nunez though) to a soft midfield because of the lack of a strong Tettey-style  figure, there are issues all over the place. So starting a thread looking for one player to target is pure scapegoating. 
 

I despair sometimes at some of our “supporters” who seem to have no idea how to support - “to keep from weakening or failing; give confidence or comfort to.”

Don't scapegoat the donkeys, you shout till you're horse. "Have I got that right?" he asked sheepishly. Just chicken.

I think what you're saying is give them the carrot rather than the stick, and hope that the whole sorry menagerie somehow starts to produce something other than the massive quantity of manure which we are currently seeing.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

35 minutes ago, king canary said:

Posting on a message board is not equal to support.

I was at the game on Saturday and supported my heart out for 90 minutes.

That is the support that matters. I highly doubt Grant Hanley is running onto the pitch thinking 'I can't believe those people on the pinkun don't believe in me.'

I agree, but I don’t think the two are completely separate. I doubt anyway who is criticising Hanley on here is chanting his name at the game.  A negative mood permeates support, wherever it is.

[king canary 7,580]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

I agree, but I don’t think the two are completely separate. I doubt anyway who is criticising Hanley on here is chanting his name at the game.  A negative mood permeates support, wherever it is.

You'd be wrong- I'm critical about him on here and gave him the same support I'd give any other player on Saturday.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

42 minutes ago, king canary said:

You'd be wrong- I'm critical about him on here and gave him the same support I'd give any other player on Saturday.

Ok, I don’t think the two are completely separate for many people. I’ll grant you an honourable exception!

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Exactly. There is no word that gets misued more on this forum than 'scapegoat' as it seems to get used every time a player gets criticised.

 

Well, according to Webster's Dictionary the definition (apart from the strictly biblical one ) is as follows:

a

: one that bears the blame for others

b

: one that is the object of irrational hostility.

 

The second (b) makes it the correct usage of the word as applied to singling out certain players.

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Everyone has their favourites and the one they just can't seem to appreciate. I really liked Todd and believed in him and cannot see why people now virtually hate him. But I am not a big fan of one or two players currently in the team. That is because they haven't convinced me that they are better than who they replaced.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like said players to play brilliantly game after game and convince me. And I also realise things such as form, injury etc mean I cannot expect success every game.

I am emotional in many things and football is one place where my emotions surface. And the whole selection of them from ecstasy to suicidal can occur during any game. When I get to matches, which are away ones, I feel proud to wear the colours where I visit and sing the songs and chants like many others.

So in my case, any individual player might be wnaker one minute but my hero the next. Its the great thing about football to me. Its not indoor bowls with polite applause. Its rough and ready with cries and cheers.

So I find it difficult when some posters accuse people like myself of being disloyal, nor real supporters, looking for scapegoats or even the arrogant, you don't understand.

I get what I want out of following my Club. I think I have many with a similar attitude. And there are the clinical analysts, the stat hunters and the less emotional. Great. Its what makes this forum as well as supporting the club. But I don't think they are wrong. Just different.

So when somebody starts a post like this one, I decide whether I want to contribute. And this post was waiting for me. I was so upset about Saturday's performance. And I saw it as an opportunity to post my belief that the current ills cannot be all be blamed on the players or coach.

Ben Gibson is not worth £41K a week or an £8M transfer value in my eyes. I don't believe that Sara or Nunez are anywhere near what we expected. I believe that Sarge and Nunez just do not even impress at this level let alone the EPL. And Rashica and PLM have gone as such. Placheta is more out on loan than playing. Dimi is not a consistent starter.

And those signings are down to Webber. We have had three different coaches with some of these players so it cannot just be their fault. Basically, I believe the players have proved to me that they aren't really good enough as a unit. DW has altered out style and tactics but the players cannot adapt to it it seems.

So my criticism turns fully on Webber. I might be less harsh if he wasn't so conceited to make remarks  about pishing things up the wall or blaming DF and not himself for our failure to make a fist, twice, of the EPL. And then this season to say he couldn't be 100% focused on his job because of extra curricular activities.

So while Donkey may be harsh and rude (to Donkeys?) (joke fellas), he has failed for the last two seasons. And now I am led to believe there is talk that there isn't going to be much money available for next season. For me, I am assuming that we won't go up even if we do make the playoffs.

But that doesn't mean that if there some magical turnaround in fortunes and we win at Wembley, I won't be looking for a ticket, hailing the all conquering heroes and praising all and sundry including Webber. That is football. At the moment its dire and disappointing and I am blaming one person in particular for that.

[Mengo 821]

VeResponsibility rests with me

Stuart Webber: I appreciate that the supporters want someone to blame. What I’d ask is blame me, no problem. I’m in charge of the football strategy, I make the calls.

Every player here, I’ve either signed or given a new contract to. Every member of staff, the same. If you want a scapegoat, then you’re looking at him. I’ve got no problem with that.

It’s never nice when you get relegated, but what’s important now is that we don’t dwell on it. We haven’t got time to cry; no-one’s died here. What’s happened is that reality’s hit. We got relegated from a league we should have got relegated from.

We’ve gone to war without a gun and, guess what, we got shot. Now what we need is to make sure that if we ever get the opportunity to get back, we’re fully armed and ready to fight back.

What a man big Stu , say it like it is. Sorry I've never liked your arrogance.  I'm sure there are better people than you out there who would love a chance to direct the Norwich  city the correct way. No egotistical talk, no 90%. . F1 maybe awaits you. You really do think you are something else. I don't trust you as a person or a so called Sport  Director.

Please don't feel guilty about resigning  , because you would have done that if chelsea had taken you on. Your a chancer big man . Go attempt to climb Everest and a few more ego busting podcasts.