We need to drop Pukki

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

I’ve said it for a while. Pukki needs to be dropped and used as an impact sub. He’s just not doing it this season and 4 goals in 17 makes that clear. If the midfield doesn’t score we look toothless. 

Sarge had a purple patch when played in his true position and not on the bench. This corresponded with Pukki’s injury.

I think we would be flying if we had stuck with him and not let Pukki back in due to past not present form. 
 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dean Coneys boots

[Nuff Said 5,960]

If I had a pound for every time something like this has been posted, I’d have, well probably enough for my leccy bill.

[Top corner 260]

What we need, is to start creating chances for him & not just half chances. He’s feeding on crumbs at the minute.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

Yes I agree he’s starved of the feeds he enjoys. Our bad for selling Emi- but the point is we don’t make them with current team and so he’s wasted up top. Sarge found form when started there yet misses out time and again because..history 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,138]

24 minutes ago, Top corner said:

What we need, is to start creating chances for him & not just half chances. He’s feeding on crumbs at the minute.

He has had so many chances recently that he'd have put away other seasons. He just isn't doing what he used to for us.

 

[HazzaJet 267]

Agree. Pukki is no longer the player he was in previous seasons for us and if he signs the new contract I can only really see him warming the bench. Although I agree Idah doesn’t really deserve a start, I would rather he started ahead of Pukki as if we fail to get promoted this season we won’t have much money to spend on a replacement and so I think we need to concentrate on developing Idah and Sargent rather than continue treating Pukki as first choice

[Canary Jedi 610]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’ve said it for a while. Pukki needs to be dropped and used as an impact sub. He’s just not doing it this season and 4 goals in 17 makes that clear. If the midfield doesn’t score we look toothless. 

Sarge had a purple patch when played in his true position and not on the bench. This corresponded with Pukki’s injury.

I think we would be flying if we had stuck with him and not let Pukki back in due to past not present form. 
 

NO!

We need to start playing to his strengths. How many Pukki perfect through balls did he receive today?

I’ll give you a clue. The numerical answer is bizarrely similar to the physique of today’s referee !

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

He’s had so many chances this season but fluffed his lines. He now needs around 5 chances for the 1 he would have buried 5 yes ago. Just being honest here. He’s not performing at the levels we need. Supply hasn’t been great but it has been there 

[king canary 8,754]

11 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

NO!

We need to start playing to his strengths. How many Pukki perfect through balls did he receive today?

I’ll give you a clue. The numerical answer is bizarrely similar to the physique of today’s referee !

There is a problem though if he can only play in one style. Sometimes you might not get a bunch of well timed through balls and you have to adapt. Pukki is excellent in his one dimension but he's still extremely one dimensional. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

29 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

NO!

We need to start playing to his strengths. How many Pukki perfect through balls did he receive today?

I’ll give you a clue. The numerical answer is bizarrely similar to the physique of today’s referee !

Is Pukki even good at 1 on 1 situations anymore though? 

Personally I still think he should play behind Sargent.

Edited March 12, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,615]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

If I had a pound for every time something like this has been posted, I’d have, well probably enough for my leccy bill.

And every time, he suddenly goes and scores three in a fortnight and reminds everyone why he's still playing. 

I've also been guilty of this in the past, and have learnt my lesson.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[Mengo 852]

23 minutes ago, king canary said:

There is a problem though if he can only play in one style. Sometimes you might not get a bunch of well timed through balls and you have to adapt. Pukki is excellent in his one dimension but he's still extremely one dimensional. 

I have to agree , he is a brilliant one dimensional player. People might not like to hear it , but pukki has had a lot of chances that maybe a year or two ago he would have scored. This is life. Clubs and coaches no pukki inside out now and therefore nullify his threats. Norwich is known as a favourite to win and coaches are aware of the big threats. We have to mix it up a bit. Pukki is not the main man he used to be  and that is a fact. A VERY BASIC FACT.   We have to get used to that from now on time is running out.

[ged in the onion bag 961]

I agree but not for form… time to reset this team….. Pukki out, Idah / Sargent given experience up top…. Same with McLean out / Gibbs in, Hanley and Gibson out / Omo and Sorensen in, Tzolis wide.    Get some of the youngsters some experience, we aren’t getting relegated now!   
 

Time to stop this promotion lunacy we’ve not got any players ready for that, maybe Gunn!

Give Wagner time to create a team and a pattern of play!   

[Mengo 852]

Mix it up a bit. I'm sure by now that (wagner) who for me is a very intelligent  football coach , has seen all he needs to now. 

Idah and sarge are not wingers. I honestly  don't think you will see this formation play out again. 

Pukki will be used when and if required. His daYs as the so called no 1 are limited.

Wagner has now seen enough for how he would like as his starting eleven. Five subs are the norm throughout most of the rest of world football and he will use this to his advantage. Trust me this guy is good and has a good team. 

Webber, just stay out the way  think about Everest and leave everthing to Wagner  and Neil Adams. 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Mengo

[canarybubbles 2,199]

I understand the arguments for dropping Pukki, especially if the club accepts that he is leaving at the end of the season, but if we do I think we need a radical change in style. Simply slotting Sargent or Idah in there won't work IMO because neither of them has the quickness of thinking to replicate what Pukki can do at his best. Sargent is improving in this area, I think - I get the impression he has learned from watching Pukki during his time here - and may be able to develop into the role. And I think he would have done better yesterday than Pukki because a lot of the crosses were in the air - Pukki even had a few headers but they were poor, of course because it's not his skill set. I personally see no chance of Idah ever playing a Pukki-type role. He's just not smart enough. Fair enough, Pukki's level of movement may be an unrealistic aim, but by now Idah should at least have figured out the offside rule. He needs to go out on loan at the start of next season as a last-ditch attempt to find out if that alleged potential is real.

If we do persist with Pukki in his current role, let's just drop both Sargent and Idah to the bench and play real wingers on the wing.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

I would put Sarge up front to meet the crosses and play proper wingers- and bring Pukki on when defenders are tired from the bench. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

9 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

He’s had so many chances this season but fluffed his lines. He now needs around 5 chances for the 1 he would have buried 5 yes ago. Just being honest here. He’s not performing at the levels we need. Supply hasn’t been great but it has been there 

Let's not forget his 8 assists this season though. 

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Dropping Pukki whilst we still have a chance of the play-offs is unthinkable.

If we do make the play-offs, then he will be vital.

If we actually get through the play-offs, clearly we are a million miles from being good enough for the PL and yet another humiliating experience might well be on the cards, but let's concern ourselves with that if and when it happens.

At least the bank manager will be happy to say nothing of Atanasio. Having a ready-made stake in a Premier League club could well be a dream come true for him and could well be an incentive for increased involvement/investment.

Six months is a long time in football.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Commonsense 802]

9 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I agree but not for form… time to reset this team….. Pukki out, Idah / Sargent given experience up top…. Same with McLean out / Gibbs in, Hanley and Gibson out / Omo and Sorensen in, Tzolis wide.    Get some of the youngsters some experience, we aren’t getting relegated now!   
 

Time to stop this promotion lunacy we’ve not got any players ready for that, maybe Gunn!

Give Wagner time to create a team and a pattern of play!   

This is ridiculous. If you actually watch games you will know Idah is ****. I know he’s young and all the rest but he is not currently good enough to play. Omo was given several chances this season and was not good enough. He will be in the future but he needs to come in more gradually. Why drop McClean when in general he has had a good season.It’s simply reactive rubbish to pick A. N. other young players and say it’s about the future. That’s why we employ a manager not choose players based on some posters opinion.

[Barham Blitz 869]

10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Personally I still think he should play behind Sargent.

I agree that as our mid- to long-term future there Josh should play as the #9 and Teemu fit in around him although as I've said before I'd actually go even more radical than that and play him wide right. 

He drifts into that right hand channel anyway and with his touch and vision could offer a bit of an Emi type creativity out there.  With defences sitting a bit deeper to offset Onel's pace he would get a bit more room to operate and still have a licence to join through the middle.  Plus he offers good workrate defensively.

[ged in the onion bag 961]

16 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

This is ridiculous. If you actually watch games you will know Idah is ****. I know he’s young and all the rest but he is not currently good enough to play. Omo was given several chances this season and was not good enough. He will be in the future but he needs to come in more gradually. Why drop McClean when in general he has had a good season.It’s simply reactive rubbish to pick A. N. other young players and say it’s about the future. That’s why we employ a manager not choose players based on some posters opinion.

Not at all!    What would you suggest we do, throw everything at a promotion with this lot like so many continue to do?   That’s ridiculous!  We’ve one player (Gunn) that could step up!   Get these players some experience, develop them, and use the time to hone a playing philosophy while we can, so next year we can reset!   Disagree they aren’t ready, they have proven themselves and been raves about on here plenty so that’s rubbish!   But they are playing under pressure in a team chasing results when we need patience.   This has been a wasted season chasing that ridiculous promotion, playing loan players and completely failing to develop a better squad!
 

Agree Idah isn’t good enough wide!  He's only going to lose confidence out there, which seems the case.   He’s hardly had a go up top and has shown some promise at times like the others but needs some goals.   Perhaps he does need a loan if we can’t get him pitch time!    Look how long it’s taken Carlton Morris to develop!

McLean hasn’t had a good season, he’s just been more consistent than most of the rest!   Fact is, he’s never influential against the better teams and is only looking good now because he’s dropped deeper into centre defensive positions where he’s got more time and space.    

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

At some point, hopefully fairly soon, Pukki confirms whether or not he's going to sign the offered contract. Until then Wagner can't really move forward.

Having Idah and Sargent as wingers when we've brought in Marquinhos and Tzolis doesn't appear a long-term joined up plan.

[king canary 8,754]

10 hours ago, Mengo said:

I have to agree , he is a brilliant one dimensional player. People might not like to hear it , but pukki has had a lot of chances that maybe a year or two ago he would have scored. This is life. Clubs and coaches no pukki inside out now and therefore nullify his threats. Norwich is known as a favourite to win and coaches are aware of the big threats. We have to mix it up a bit. Pukki is not the main man he used to be  and that is a fact. A VERY BASIC FACT.   We have to get used to that from now on time is running out.

And having him as the focal point of the entire attack hurts others in the team. Giannoulis isn't my favourite player but you can see yesterday him overlapping and getting into decent positions but not wanting to risk a cross with only Pukki to aim at. Sargent and Idah keep being shunted out wide to accommodate him or if they play closer to him we end up Nunez out wide and a gaping hole in the middle.

Sara and Nunez are obviously talents but I don't think either of them are Emi style give and go quick short passing type players who are likely to thrive with Pukki. It sounds old school but a real focal point up front who can occupy central defenders, work the channels and play with their back to goal can help bring those other players into the game more. It doesn't mean you suddenly have to start playing route one Pulis ball but it gives us more options.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 4,415]

11 hours ago, king canary said:

There is a problem though if he can only play in one style. Sometimes you might not get a bunch of well timed through balls and you have to adapt. Pukki is excellent in his one dimension but he's still extremely one dimensional. 

It's exactly this. If we play Pukki then we also may have to bend the shape our normal game to suit.

Pukki works hard but so do all the players. However CFs can't be picky about the type of chances they'll take!  

[Nuff Said 5,960]

48 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Not at all!    What would you suggest we do, throw everything at a promotion with this lot like so many continue to do?   That’s ridiculous!  We’ve one player (Gunn) that could step up!   Get these players some experience, develop them, and use the time to hone a playing philosophy while we can, so next year we can reset!   Disagree they aren’t ready, they have proven themselves and been raves about on here plenty so that’s rubbish!   But they are playing under pressure in a team chasing results when we need patience.   This has been a wasted season chasing that ridiculous promotion, playing loan players and completely failing to develop a better squad!
 

Agree Idah isn’t good enough wide!  He's only going to lose confidence out there, which seems the case.   He’s hardly had a go up top and has shown some promise at times like the others but needs some goals.   Perhaps he does need a loan if we can’t get him pitch time!    Look how long it’s taken Carlton Morris to develop!

McLean hasn’t had a good season, he’s just been more consistent than most of the rest!   Fact is, he’s never influential against the better teams and is only looking good now because he’s dropped deeper into centre defensive positions where he’s got more time and space.    

Ged, I’m going off-topic here, but read your post above and then read this:

 

Not at all.    What would you suggest we do, throw everything at a promotion with this lot like so many continue to do?  We’ve one player (Gunn) that could step up.   Get these players some experience, develop them, and use the time to hone a playing philosophy while we can, so next year we can reset. Disagree they aren’t ready, they have proven themselves and been raves about on here plenty.   But they are playing under pressure in a team chasing results when we need patience.   This has been a wasted season chasing that ridiculous promotion, playing loan players and completely failing to develop a better squad.
 

Agree Idah isn’t good enough wide. He's only going to lose confidence out there, which seems the case.   He’s hardly had a go up top and has shown some promise at times like the others but needs some goals.   Perhaps he does need a loan if we can’t get him pitch time. Look how long it’s taken Carlton Morris to develop.

McLean hasn’t had a good season, he’s just been more consistent than most of the rest. Fact is, he’s never influential against the better teams and is only looking good now because he’s dropped deeper into centre defensive positions where he’s got more time and space.    

IMHO, the first one reads like a rant and an attempt to start an argument, the second like a reasonable discussion. All I’ve done is take out the 10 exclamation marks and the dismissal of another poster’s opinions as ridiculous and rubbish. Often when I read your posts, in my head your voice is getting more and more raised and higher and higher pitched the longer they go on. Maybe turn it down a tiny bit and we’d all have a more friendly debate? You’re clearly a passionate supporter and have some decent points to make, but more often than not all I think reading your posts is that you sound like you’re either going to hit someone or have a coronary. I’m not going to bring it up again though, it’s completely up to you whether you care what I or anyone else think. 👍

[hogesar 10,762]

I don't think it's surprising that Pukki looked more like his usual self when Dowell was in the team.

His movement is still comfortably the best in the division - the argument is if we're not going to utilise that then....

He's been involved in 17 goals (10 goals, 7 assists). He has been a big player for us still this season.

Worth remembering we did beat Hull 3-1 without Pukki, Birmingham 3-1 without Pukki, and Cardiff 2-0 without Pukki starting. So we are capable of creating and scoring without him.

If we are to go away from home Wednesday and play the same as Millwall with Mclean, Sorensen and Sara in midfield with Idah and Hernandez either side then I don't think that compliments Pukki at all and we'd be better served with Sargent. 

The flip side is any opposition team that see's no Pukki in it probably breathes a sigh of relief.

[lake district canary 4,830]

Several players tried to feed Pukki against Sunderland, who as always was making his intelligent runs, but nearly always overhit.

He never gives up though and his hold up play is amongst the best I've ever seen - rarely gets in trouble when defenders try to get the ball off him. 

Just need those passes to him to be a bit more accurate!

[ged in the onion bag 961]

31 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Ged, I’m going off-topic here, but read your post above and then read this:

 

Not at all.    What would you suggest we do, throw everything at a promotion with this lot like so many continue to do?  We’ve one player (Gunn) that could step up.   Get these players some experience, develop them, and use the time to hone a playing philosophy while we can, so next year we can reset. Disagree they aren’t ready, they have proven themselves and been raves about on here plenty.   But they are playing under pressure in a team chasing results when we need patience.   This has been a wasted season chasing that ridiculous promotion, playing loan players and completely failing to develop a better squad.
 

Agree Idah isn’t good enough wide. He's only going to lose confidence out there, which seems the case.   He’s hardly had a go up top and has shown some promise at times like the others but needs some goals.   Perhaps he does need a loan if we can’t get him pitch time. Look how long it’s taken Carlton Morris to develop.

McLean hasn’t had a good season, he’s just been more consistent than most of the rest. Fact is, he’s never influential against the better teams and is only looking good now because he’s dropped deeper into centre defensive positions where he’s got more time and space.    

IMHO, the first one reads like a rant and an attempt to start an argument, the second like a reasonable discussion. All I’ve done is take out the 10 exclamation marks and the dismissal of another poster’s opinions as ridiculous and rubbish. Often when I read your posts, in my head your voice is getting more and more raised and higher and higher pitched the longer they go on. Maybe turn it down a tiny bit and we’d all have a more friendly debate? You’re clearly a passionate supporter and have some decent points to make, but more often than not all I think reading your posts is that you sound like you’re either going to hit someone or have a coronary. I’m not going to bring it up again though, it’s completely up to you whether you care what I or anyone else think. 👍

I’m big enough to take constructive criticism!   Thanks for that, the ‘ridiculous’ comment came about as that’s what the poster I was responding to wrote.    I do like an exclamation mark though!  
 
 

 

[shefcanary 2,951]

With Pukki, if Dowell is in the team, we have someone who can then feed him, so should play him as the one up top. Without Dowell, let's swap Pukki and Sargent around, Sarge to lead the line, Pukki to play slightly wider just off Sarge.

As others have said Pukki has made 8 assists this season, usually from playing down the channels so he can be effective there. Sure, we may lose his ability to play off defenders shoulders on the half turn, but also as others have said he hasn't been anywhere near clinical enough this season to justify doing this especially when Dowell is not in the side.

Let Pukki feed the Sarge.

[KiwiScot 1,684]

We have a general opinion Pukki won't be here next season on the board I believe so our front line is Sargent who let's me fair to him. Is crap, but equal in what the rest of the team have been producing. We need to bring in a striker post season so it's how how the manager wants to play next season who should determine who starts now. That way the team gets more of an idea how Wagner wants it.