Sara, Argos, Nunez, McLean

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

All totally unrecognisable under Wagner compared to Smith. Under Smith our midfield was utterly powder puff, now it's our strength.

How can one manager get things so wrong and another come in a just nail it?

[Don’t be Krul 452]

Coz Smith is a clueless kn0b

Edited March 4, 2023 by Don’t be Krul

[Robert N. LiM 6,241]

Thought Kenny was great today. Just never hides. Real asset for us at this level

[king canary 8,736]

Aarons is another who looks so much better under new management. 

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Aarons is another who looks so much better under new management. 

Yep agreed, but I just thought special mention for the whole midfield was worthy 

[All the Germans 1,228]

6 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

Coz Smith is a clueless kn0b

A little harsh calling him a kn0b, but clueless is not too far off.

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Aarons is another who looks so much better under new management. 

Amazing what happens when he’s not scared of getting the hair dryer treatment if he goes over the half way line. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,258]

I think people forget sometimes because of the narrative that Wagner "failed" at his last two clubs that he isn't a massive coup for us. How often in our history have we employed a manager who has got a team promoted to the top flight and kept them up while playing attacking football on a similar budget to us and managed in the Champions league? It's hard to say whether Smith was terrible or just average but we have a good manager in charge now and we should expect that he improves players and results. Barring unforseen circumstances or him just not being the right fit personality wise for the group of players we have now it was always likely that we would start playing well and the players would improve. 

He's got us playing in a system that works for us, he's getting players in the right positions and playing to their strengths and he's improved the moral and atmosphere around the club. His next task is to identify why we just turn up completely flat and can't string 3 passes together in the occasional game, he's hinted that it's fitness before which is why I'm excited about next season but I also think there's still a bit of complacency there (we'll just turn up and win away at this average championship team while going through the motions) and we still seem to start games slowly and let teams overrun us early in games and that's his next job, if we can find a decent level in every game we play and start games in full gear then we'll be a real force. 

People will point to the defence being a problem as well but for me that's just an inevitable consequence of playing attacking football and trying to play out from the back with a decent to good set of Championship level defenders, it's not a coaching issue and we as fans are going to have to get used to those hairy moments if we want to watch a positive, attacking team. Aarons/Hanley/Gibson/Omobamidele/Giannoulis/McCallum are all good enough for where we are right now, but they're never going to be comfortable at playing out from the back and defending all the spaces we leave when we lose the ball in every instance in every game. There's a reason that defenders who can defend in attack minded teams and play out from the back with almost no mistakes cost an absolute fortune. 

[Petriix 3,212]

The fundamental difference is that Smith tried to bend the players into his system whereas Wagner has allowed the players to play to their strengths.

[chicken 3,081]

2 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

All totally unrecognisable under Wagner compared to Smith. Under Smith our midfield was utterly powder puff, now it's our strength.

How can one manager get things so wrong and another come in a just nail it?

Gunn ---> Lambert.
Neil ---> Farke.
Hamilton ---> Worthington.

Edited March 4, 2023 by chicken

[Capt. Pants 4,993]

2 minutes ago, Petriix said:

The fundamental difference is that Smith tried to bend the players into his system whereas Wagner has allowed the players to play to their strengths.

To some extent yes. Although he's getting loads out of McLean playing as a sometimes very deep DM, when most would play Kenny further forward.

Likewise Idah was deployed wide left today, which really isn't his best position.

The point being players have also had to adapt to Wagner's required style. So far it's working pretty well and they seem to be reacting well to the coaching team. Quiet the opposite compared to when Smith was here.

[Pyro Pete 2,350]

During his time here, Smith frequently used the phrase 'these players were brought in to play a certain way'. Almost disowning his own players.

Which makes you wonder if Smith and Webber ever actually spoke to one another.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,789]

4 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

During his time here, Smith frequently used the phrase 'these players were brought in to play a certain way'. Almost disowning his own players.

Which makes you wonder if Smith and Webber ever actually spoke to one another.

Well as Smith himself said in his last post match interview for us

 

"I'll always be a villan.."

[CardiffCanary 163]

34 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I think people forget sometimes because of the narrative that Wagner "failed" at his last two clubs that he isn't a massive coup for us. How often in our history have we employed a manager who has got a team promoted to the top flight and kept them up while playing attacking football on a similar budget to us and managed in the Champions league? It's hard to say whether Smith was terrible or just average but we have a good manager in charge now and we should expect that he improves players and results. Barring unforseen circumstances or him just not being the right fit personality wise for the group of players we have now it was always likely that we would start playing well and the players would improve. 

He's got us playing in a system that works for us, he's getting players in the right positions and playing to their strengths and he's improved the moral and atmosphere around the club. His next task is to identify why we just turn up completely flat and can't string 3 passes together in the occasional game, he's hinted that it's fitness before which is why I'm excited about next season but I also think there's still a bit of complacency there (we'll just turn up and win away at this average championship team while going through the motions) and we still seem to start games slowly and let teams overrun us early in games and that's his next job, if we can find a decent level in every game we play and start games in full gear then we'll be a real force. 

People will point to the defence being a problem as well but for me that's just an inevitable consequence of playing attacking football and trying to play out from the back with a decent to good set of Championship level defenders, it's not a coaching issue and we as fans are going to have to get used to those hairy moments if we want to watch a positive, attacking team. Aarons/Hanley/Gibson/Omobamidele/Giannoulis/McCallum are all good enough for where we are right now, but they're never going to be comfortable at playing out from the back and defending all the spaces we leave when we lose the ball in every instance in every game. There's a reason that defenders who can defend in attack minded teams and play out from the back with almost no mistakes cost an absolute fortune. 

Just this …

what a brilliant post 

❤️❤️❤️

yarmy

[mrD66M 149]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

To some extent yes. Although he's getting loads out of McLean playing as a sometimes very deep DM, when most would play Kenny further forward.

Likewise Idah was deployed wide left today, which really isn't his best position.

The point being players have also had to adapt to Wagner's required style. So far it's working pretty well and they seem to be reacting well to the coaching team. Quiet the opposite compared to when Smith was here.

The intensity and focus of the press under DW is the telling factor.

[Commonsense 802]

1 hour ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I think people forget sometimes because of the narrative that Wagner "failed" at his last two clubs that he isn't a massive coup for us. How often in our history have we employed a manager who has got a team promoted to the top flight and kept them up while playing attacking football on a similar budget to us and managed in the Champions league? It's hard to say whether Smith was terrible or just average but we have a good manager in charge now and we should expect that he improves players and results. Barring unforseen circumstances or him just not being the right fit personality wise for the group of players we have now it was always likely that we would start playing well and the players would improve. 

He's got us playing in a system that works for us, he's getting players in the right positions and playing to their strengths and he's improved the moral and atmosphere around the club. His next task is to identify why we just turn up completely flat and can't string 3 passes together in the occasional game, he's hinted that it's fitness before which is why I'm excited about next season but I also think there's still a bit of complacency there (we'll just turn up and win away at this average championship team while going through the motions) and we still seem to start games slowly and let teams overrun us early in games and that's his next job, if we can find a decent level in every game we play and start games in full gear then we'll be a real force. 

People will point to the defence being a problem as well but for me that's just an inevitable consequence of playing attacking football and trying to play out from the back with a decent to good set of Championship level defenders, it's not a coaching issue and we as fans are going to have to get used to those hairy moments if we want to watch a positive, attacking team. Aarons/Hanley/Gibson/Omobamidele/Giannoulis/McCallum are all good enough for where we are right now, but they're never going to be comfortable at playing out from the back and defending all the spaces we leave when we lose the ball in every instance in every game. There's a reason that defenders who can defend in attack minded teams and play out from the back with almost no mistakes cost an absolute fortune. 

It’s not hard at all. Smith was terrible!

[Petriix 3,212]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

To some extent yes. Although he's getting loads out of McLean playing as a sometimes very deep DM, when most would play Kenny further forward.

Likewise Idah was deployed wide left today, which really isn't his best position.

The point being players have also had to adapt to Wagner's required style. So far it's working pretty well and they seem to be reacting well to the coaching team. Quiet the opposite compared to when Smith was here.

Wagner is unleashing our biggest threats to be as dangerous as possible by underpinning the overall system with a solid defensive structure - and that's really all a formation actually is: a set of positions to cover, mainly when out of possession. He's recognised that Kenny (among others) is quite limited in certain respects and given him a far simpler role which utilises his athleticism and passing range while removing his biggest vulnerability which is his tendency to get drawn out of position.

Every one of the attacking players is benefitting from having a second central attacker. Onel has someone to cut the ball back to. Pukki has a little more space to exploit. The number 10 position which has seen such success in recent weeks simply didn't exist under Smith. 

[Commonsense 802]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

Gunn ---> Lambert.
Neil ---> Farke.
Hamilton ---> Worthington.

Bit harsh on Alex I feel. Obviously Farke was different class, but only after we got rid of players like Naismith and Wilde****.

[chicken 3,081]

52 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Bit harsh on Alex I feel. Obviously Farke was different class, but only after we got rid of players like Naismith and Wilde****.

A bit, but in fairness, Neil did the same to Adams.

What is probably worse about Neil is that he turned the team around, got promoted via the play offs then signed a relative bunch of junk. We were closer to staying up than either time under Farke but meh, Naismith and Wildschut were just two examples of poor signings, add to that Mulumbu and I would put Dorrans in as well. He wasn't rubbish, just a bit meh. He left us in a poor state without having used Godfrey or Maddison who were signed for a combined £5-6m and not wanting to be part of the direction the club was going in - I presume with youth.

[PockthorpePete 331]

1 hour ago, mrD66M said:

The intensity and focus of the press under DW is the telling factor.

Pretty much every team closes down early,  nothing new or different.

[ron obvious 1,710]

Onel's always had the ability to terrify defences, even in the Prem. The question is whether he could be coached to use that ability to maximum effect. Wagner looks like he might just be that coach.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ron obvious

[The Bunny 326]

3 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Onel's always had the ability to terrify defences, even in the Prem. The question is whether he could be coached to use that ability to maximum effect. Wagner looks like he might just be that coach.

I always thought it was strange that sent him out on loan for the last prem campaign. We could have used some of his grit and determination. I'm sure he wouldn't have kept us up, but at least we might have gone down fighting. 

[mrD66M 149]

10 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Onel's always had the ability to terrify defences, even in the Prem. The question is whether he could be coached to use that ability to maximum effect. Wagner looks like he might just be that coach.

 Do we have stats for most assists this season?

[lake district canary 4,813]

12 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

During his time here, Smith frequently used the phrase 'these players were brought in to play a certain way'. Almost disowning his own players.

Putting that seed in the players minds was so limiting. Some fans started saying it too and it was like, oh, these playeres can't play any other way.......but enter Wagner and suddenly, straight away, that negative mindset was dismissed and the change has been dramatic. 

It just shows that limiting in your mind what you can do is just so lacking in positivity - and in football as in most things, a positive mindset is necessary for success.

[lake district canary 4,813]

 Hernandez is superb, has such strength combined with speed, now combined with better decision making. All our players must be loving playing football under this regime, but the four mentioned here more than most - after all, our apparent weakness in midfield under Smith, with the same players under Wagner, has turned into our biggest strength. Wonderful to see a fully functioning midfield play well.

[Robert N. LiM 6,241]

1 hour ago, mrD66M said:

 Do we have stats for most assists this season?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/norwich-city/top-scorers/assists

Pukki has 8, Onel and Sara 4 each. 

Sara is currently creating 1.41 chances per 90. I'm not an expert on these things, but that's Emi territory, isn't it? He is such a class act. It's been really great watching him come to terms with the Championship. And to be fair to Smith, I think one of the things he did well was to ease Sara in gently.

[mrD66M 149]

On 05/03/2023 at 09:44, Robert N. LiM said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/norwich-city/top-scorers/assists

Pukki has 8, Onel and Sara 4 each. 

Sara is currently creating 1.41 chances per 90. I'm not an expert on these things, but that's Emi territory, isn't it? He is such a class act. It's been really great watching him come to terms with the Championship. And to be fair to Smith, I think one of the things he did well was to ease Sara in gently.

Yeah, I think he's the closest thing to Emi without the little 'extra' our former n.17 had (hot headed aggression on a bad day, flashes of sexy magic football on a good day).

The raw ingredients are all there, intent, physicality, skill, vision/awareness. Now it's a matter of gelling better with the other players. Tell you what, we will struggle to keep hold of this guy if City does not get PL next season.