match thread *official lappinitup match thread Canaries V Bluebirds*

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Whining and moaning or making evidence based criticism? For goodness sake. 

And in case you hadn't realised, this is what this forum is for. I'm afraid not everyone is always going to agree with everything you say. 

To be fair no one agrees with anything birdie has to say 😉

[Grumpy 122]

3 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

It’s perfectly reasonable to assert that he saw us a a quick top up of his finances for a quick two year stint where he saw it as having nothing to lose and all to gain. To get a wedge from a club you have no connection to knowing they’re keeping you if you go down or not is easy money. 

I can see your point.
There are a number of high profile, ex managers that I would put in that category.The likes of Allerdyce and Bruce.
Neil Warnock appointment at Huddersfield is to me a good example.I do not think for one minute that he cares whether they stay up or go down.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

At the time Smith was not an obviously bad choice. To claim that was the case there and then you would have to entirely ignore his very decent record in the Championship. Nor was there an obviously better candidate mooted publicly as a possibility.

Some posters may have said they were certain he would prove to be a mistake but then that is an easy game to play, since sooner or later most managers/head coaches fail. And if the person selected takes a fair length of time to fail then the ‘disastrous choice’ prediction can be quietly forgotten.

It did become apparent over time that for whatever reason Smith and Norwich City was not working out, and posters began to focus on and agree on that, although I have yet to seen a really detailed analysis of quite why that was so. But anyone who made that prediction at the outset was just coming up with an ostentatiously glum guess with a 50 per cent chance of success.

[Branston Pickle 3,657]

31 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

At the time Smith was not an obviously bad choice. To claim that was the case there and then you would have to entirely ignore his very decent record in the Championship. Nor was there an obviously better candidate mooted publicly as a possibility.

Some posters may have said they were certain he would prove to be a mistake but then that is an easy game to play, since sooner or later most managers/head coaches fail. And if the person selected takes a fair length of time to fail then the ‘disastrous choice’ prediction can be quietly forgotten.

It did become apparent over time that for whatever reason Smith and Norwich City was not working out, and posters began to focus on and agree on that, although I have yet to seen a really detailed analysis of quite why that was so. But anyone who made that prediction at the outset was just coming up with an ostentatiously glum guess with a 50 per cent chance of success.

That’s pretty much spot on for me.  Based on what I had seen of him previously I was happy with Smith’s appointment - his style of play had always been pretty attacking and I’m stumped as to why it all seemed to change and be really stodgy, and fans didn’t seem to warm to him.  It didn’t work out, so we move on.

The signs under DW so far are definitely promising but we are obviously only in the first months of what will hopefully be a good few years. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

21 hours ago, hogesar said:

The focus should be the overall comparison not just snippets. Even in our good run under Smith we were unable to create the same amount of good quality chances as we are under Wagner, we don't look any worse defensively for it and Wagners football is more entertaining.

The other important note is how Wagner seems to have made players better as opposed to worse. Aarons was half the player under Smith, Sara was never given a defined role and Nunez fell of a cliff but Wagner seems to have recovered him 

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

Edited February 27, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

20 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Please point me to my "stupid and abusive" comments

Not you, personally. Just because I was answering you doesn't mean I was referring to you; Buh is the obvious archetype, but he was far from alone.

Edited February 27, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

35 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

Further abd further  up tbe greasy poke he climbs, desperately  trying to avoid  the humiliating slide back down to reality. 

[king canary 7,605]

37 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

You don't help yourself sometimes do you?

[king canary 7,605]

13 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s pretty much spot on for me.  Based on what I had seen of him previously I was happy with Smith’s appointment - his style of play had always been pretty attacking and I’m stumped as to why it all seemed to change and be really stodgy, and fans didn’t seem to warm to him.  It didn’t work out, so we move on.

The signs under DW so far are definitely promising but we are obviously only in the first months of what will hopefully be a good few years. 

Same. I didn't dislike the appointment and it was clear from day one that some didn't like him for various made up reasons- I remember him being compared to the likes of Bruce, Allerdyce, Pullis etc and as far as I could tell it was based entirely on him being English.

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,917]

28 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

Or perhaps it is best to have a manager who has the intelligence to recognise that, like it or not, getting supporters onside is part of his job. The managers of 91 other clubs seem to have grasped this. The only person I can think of that had a similar attitude at Carrow Road is Roeder. That didn't end well either.

Other key points

Don't leave a group of senior players to decide tactics. Take responsibility and do it yourself. It's what you're paid for. 

Don't stand on the touchline drinking tea out of a mug. It gives players and supporters a negative impression. 

Don't arrange training sessions around your tee times at Dunston Hall. 

Try to look like you give a damn. Even if you don't. 

[king canary 7,605]

20 hours ago, Grumpy said:

I can see your point.
There are a number of high profile, ex managers that I would put in that category.The likes of Allerdyce and Bruce.
Neil Warnock appointment at Huddersfield is to me a good example.I do not think for one minute that he cares whether they stay up or go down.

I think that is wrong about all of those managers. You may not like them personally but I have no doubt every single on of them takes pride in their job. You don't get to the level these people have by not giving a **** whether you succeed or fail.

The desire to paint Smith as some Machiavellian figure, taking the job here to rinse us for cash while deciding not to do the job makes very little sense. His contract with Villa had nearly two years to run when he was sacked so his payoff there would have been sizable. The idea he'd feel the need to 'top up his finances' after that is a headscratcher. Add in the fact that we're probably not the best payers and the deal he signed here wasn't that long it wouldn't exactly be worth all the headache. His failure here has likely hurt his career prospects at the top level, whereas if he'd held on I'm sure a panicked Everton or Southampton type team would have paid him more than we did.

I think he might admit in hindsight that taking the job so quickly after losing the Villa one was a mistake. I can imagine getting sacked from your dream job is tough and the job you take afterwards probably won't feel as special. It was very much a case of wrong person, wrong time but I don't think he's some awful chancer in the way others seem to.

[hogesar 9,658]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

I mean if you take Aarons then it was quite definitely the manager in the way he set the team up. Aarons isn't a fantastic defensive fullback but he's a very effective wingback. Limiting him going forwards (Aarons has hinted at this re Smith) was always going to lessen him as an effective player for us.

Sara was given about 4 different positions under Smith - pretty hard when trying to get accustomed to a new country and league!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

A few weeks ago you were noting a significant improvement in the team that could only be a result of the new manager, and you also said you'd 'moved on' from Smith.

Now you're back to posting some of the most utter nonsense I've read on here!

[dylanisabaddog 4,917]

Just now, hogesar said:

I mean if you take Aarons then it was quite definitely the manager in the way he set the team up. Aarons isn't a fantastic defensive fullback but he's a very effective wingback. Limiting him going forwards (Aarons has hinted at this re Smith) was always going to lessen him as an effective player for us.

Sara was given about 4 different positions under Smith - pretty hard when trying to get accustomed to a new country and league!

Nunez is another example. He started off extremely well but the more he was coached the worse he got. 

[Capt. Pants 4,229]

Sargent is another example, more than often out on the right wing. 

And as for Pukki I've never seen him look so miserable during thise Smith days.

 

[king canary 7,605]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I mean if you take Aarons then it was quite definitely the manager in the way he set the team up. Aarons isn't a fantastic defensive fullback but he's a very effective wingback. Limiting him going forwards (Aarons has hinted at this re Smith) was always going to lessen him as an effective player for us.

Sara was given about 4 different positions under Smith - pretty hard when trying to get accustomed to a new country and league!

Exactly.

You'd have to be a fool to think Aarons improvement is down to fans cheering more and not obvious changes to his role and the tactical set up. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,342]

14 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

At the time Smith was not an obviously bad choice. To claim that was the case there and then you would have to entirely ignore his very decent record in the Championship. Nor was there an obviously better candidate mooted publicly as a possibility.

Some posters may have said they were certain he would prove to be a mistake but then that is an easy game to play, since sooner or later most managers/head coaches fail. And if the person selected takes a fair length of time to fail then the ‘disastrous choice’ prediction can be quietly forgotten.

It did become apparent over time that for whatever reason Smith and Norwich City was not working out, and posters began to focus on and agree on that, although I have yet to seen a really detailed analysis of quite why that was so. But anyone who made that prediction at the outset was just coming up with an ostentatiously glum guess with a 50 per cent chance of success.

Pretty much agree with this.

Perhaps part of the problem was we were replacing a ‘sexy ‘ foreign coach with a vanilla English bloke called Smith. He really needed to sprinkle a bit of personality magic over proceedings and that wasn’t in his DNA. 

We started of points-wise very well indeed but like Smith himself the football was all very unexciting. The wins were laboured with very little stylish play and it was all so ‘ meh ‘. It was obvious most of the players weren’t Smith fans either.

The reset with a new coach came a little late and may have scuppered our chances of a top six finish this season but with Wagner there’s a renewed optimism that things will get better.

 

[ron obvious 1,502]

Bit of a shout out for Gibbs as well, who I thought looked very handy when he came on. Which is excellent news, as we may well need him more as injuries & fatigue take a toll.  We'll got some genuine strength in depth this season.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

23 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Was it Smith making them worse or some fans determined refusal to be supportive demoralising players? Most likely the latter. But then maybe it is important to have a manager who brown-noses fans that need brown-nosing as a condition for backing the team.

To quote someone. ‘more ridiculous baseless speculation’ 

works both ways 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

22 hours ago, king canary said:

Exactly.

You'd have to be a fool to think Aarons improvement is down to fans cheering more and not obvious changes to his role and the tactical set up. 

I think there’s an inference here that we can all agree with 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,163]

On 25/02/2023 at 17:15, Grumpy said:

Strange decision to move Sorensen over to the right and then sub him with Omo.
At Millwall I would reinstate Demi or Mac and go with the rest as today. Sorensen just didn't cut it for me today

Probably a good job that Wagner didn't listen to your team selection advice today................... 😉 

[Grumpy 122]

27 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Probably a good job that Wagner didn't listen to your team selection advice today................... 😉 

While I can appreciate your point it might be worthwhile pointing out that he was deployed in a more favourable position today.I am not comfortable with him at full back,certainly not left back