Ben Gibson

[hogesar 9,618]

I had been wanting him back into the side ever since it was clear Wagner wanted us to play out from the back even whilst being pressed. Not just because he's decent on the ball but the natural balance of a left-footed CB whilst also meaning Hanley plays on the right-side just seems so much better for trying to play out. Gibson set Gianoullis away out of the press on multiple occasions,  admittedly Dimi didn't take full advantage but...

 

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

Didn't see the game but agree in theory. But will Wagner have the courage to try AO alongside him in place of Hanley?

[hogesar 9,618]

12 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Didn't see the game but agree in theory. But will Wagner have the courage to try AO alongside him in place of Hanley?

Would be difficult - especially when personally I think Hanley has been a much better defender than AO this season.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Would be difficult - especially when personally I think Hanley has been a much better defender than AO this season.

Yes, I think Hanley is pretty clearly our best defender. But is he in our best partnership? I'd be interested to see

[Yellow Wal 314]

AO has been disappointing this season.

I was expecting him to move forward in leaps and bounds but he seems to have satisfied himself with average performances.

Being dropped by Wagner could, and should, be the impetus for him to look at himself and realise how good he could be and to realise how short of that he will be unless he puts the work in that is needed to become an outstanding player.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

I agree with everyone who says that AO has been disappointing this season, but you could argue who hasn't (Sargent, Gunn?). And we forget he is still so young, especially for a defender, so let's hope this slump is just a natural part of being a young player learning his trade.

[shefcanary 2,385]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

 will Wagner have the courage to try AO alongside him in place of Hanley?

That is something I'd love to see. Two ball playing centre halves, what's not to like (as long as they cut the mistakes in possession out).

[jaberry2 550]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I had been wanting him back into the side ever since it was clear Wagner wanted us to play out from the back even whilst being pressed. Not just because he's decent on the ball but the natural balance of a left-footed CB whilst also meaning Hanley plays on the right-side just seems so much better for trying to play out. Gibson set Gianoullis away out of the press on multiple occasions,  admittedly Dimi didn't take full advantage but...

 

 

Yes Gibson had a good game and looked assured at the back. We certainly benefit from his passing ability. Dimi on the other hand....multiple missed tackles and his passing is so woeful. Its hard to imagine he was linked with Liverpool at one time.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Thought he looked fit and sharp so big credit to him. Also noticed him moving the ball quicker which opened up space for other players to utilise. 

[Mason 47 1,373]

'A brick on his return to the team'?

🤨

[king canary 7,578]

45 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I agree with everyone who says that AO has been disappointing this season, but you could argue who hasn't (Sargent, Gunn?). And we forget he is still so young, especially for a defender, so let's hope this slump is just a natural part of being a young player learning his trade.

I know it also isn't popular here but maybe AO has been poor because the experienced pro next to him has also been poor?

I'd like to see AO and Gibson get a run together.

[TheBaldOne66 681]

What’s that then for Gibson, his first decent game in a dozen? 

[shefcanary 2,385]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

I know it also isn't popular here but maybe AO has been poor because the experienced pro next to him has also been poor?

I'd like to see AO and Gibson get a run together.

Yep, Hanley is so self-centred on the pitch. No leader, even by example! Gibson is more of a talker, just a shame he keeps making stupid and very costly mistakes. Let's see him have a run without and he can provide the guidance that Omo needs.

[hogesar 9,618]

14 minutes ago, king canary said:

I know it also isn't popular here but maybe AO has been poor because the experienced pro next to him has also been poor?

I'd like to see AO and Gibson get a run together.

 

5 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Yep, Hanley is so self-centred on the pitch. No leader, even by example! Gibson is more of a talker, just a shame he keeps making stupid and very costly mistakes. Let's see him have a run without and he can provide the guidance that Omo needs.

Another one of those players consistently picked by three managers 🙂

[Channon’s Windmill 326]

Gibson does this though, he gets his place in the team, has a couple of decent games then has an absolute calamity which more or less forces the manager to drop him. Let’s see, hope he can be consistent under DW.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

18 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

What’s that then for Gibson, his first decent game in a dozen? 

Clucking bell, you are a little ray of sunshine aren't you.....................

[king canary 7,578]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 

Another one of those players consistently picked by three managers 🙂

And I'll repeat my response- managers kept picking Russell Martin in central defence and then we remarkably improved when someone finally dropped him.

[Rottingdean canary 117]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

And I'll repeat my response- managers kept picking Russell Martin in central defence and then we remarkably improved when someone finally dropped him.

Did we replace Martin with Hanley? 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

Fair to say he's..  OK. He's not quite as awful as some say but he's not great either. He's just fine.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

The key thing for me is having the left foot right footed combination. As I've mentioned, when Hanley plays on the left he automatically faces his own goal which means more often than not means the ball will go straight back to Gunn or a dangerous pass across his penalty area.

AO hasn't had the chance to play alongside Gibbo so it's a bit unfair to be too critical of him.

A solid display from Gibbo last night; pleased for him.

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

And I'll repeat my response- managers kept picking Russell Martin in central defence and then we remarkably improved when someone finally dropped him.

Wasn't that because we went out and bought an out-and-out CB in Hanley to replace him?

If we bought a better CB than Hanley then by all means replace him - at the moment he's the best CB we have, at defending.

[jaberry2 550]

45 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Fair to say he's..  OK. He's not quite as awful as some say but he's not great either. He's just fine.

Pretty much summarises a lot of our team

[repman 634]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

And I'll repeat my response- managers kept picking Russell Martin in central defence and then we remarkably improved when someone finally dropped him.

Did we though? He was dropped by Farke about 5 games into his first season and we then went on to have our lowest finish since being in league one.

[king canary 7,578]

16 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Wasn't that because we went out and bought an out-and-out CB in Hanley to replace him?

If we bought a better CB than Hanley then by all means replace him - at the moment he's the best CB we have, at defending.

No not specifically.

We went out and bought Hanley but post the 4-0 hammering by Millwall we dropped Martin and Franke for Klose and Zimmerman who were already at the club. Hanley didn't make his first league start until the end of October.

[king canary 7,578]

9 minutes ago, repman said:

Did we though? He was dropped by Farke about 5 games into his first season and we then went on to have our lowest finish since being in league one.

We did defensively.

He started 4 of our first 5 games where we conceded we conceded 12 goals. 

In the 5 games after he was dropped we conceded zero goals.

The total numbers were...

4 games Martin started- 12 goals conceded

42 games he didn't start- 48 goals conceded. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by king canary

[repman 634]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

We did defensively.

He started 4 of our first 5 games where we conceded we conceded 12 goals. 

In the 5 games after he was dropped we conceded zero goals.

Yeah I generally don't agree that taking one player out suddenly improves things. A lot changed in how we played after that Millwall game, Farke stopped trying to use Reed as the sole DM and brought in Tettey and Trybull instead. We were definitely more defensively solid but that came at a cost of losing any attacking output we had.

[king canary 7,578]

2 minutes ago, repman said:

Yeah I generally don't agree that taking one player out suddenly improves things. A lot changed in how we played after that Millwall game, Farke stopped trying to use Reed as the sole DM and brought in Tettey and Trybull instead. We were definitely more defensively solid but that came at a cost of losing any attacking output we had.

I'm not saying it was all his fault. But he was crap at that point and his performance was dragging down his defensive partners too. People insisted for ages that Ryan Bennett was crap but after he got away from playing next to Russell Martin he went on to play solidly at midtable Premier League level. 

My general point though is this is a bit occams razor. Our defence has struggled for the last 18 months. The only player who hasn't been taken out of the defence for any extended period of time is Hanley. Aarons was dropped for Byram, Giannoulis for Williams, Gibson and Omobamidele for each other and Kabak but Hanley remains and the defensive issues remain. I don't see why it is controversial to suggest it might be worth seeing how we look without him. 

[hogesar 9,618]

8 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not saying it was all his fault. But he was crap at that point and his performance was dragging down his defensive partners too. People insisted for ages that Ryan Bennett was crap but after he got away from playing next to Russell Martin he went on to play solidly at midtable Premier League level. 

My general point though is this is a bit occams razor. Our defence has struggled for the last 18 months. The only player who hasn't been taken out of the defence for any extended period of time is Hanley. Aarons was dropped for Byram, Giannoulis for Williams, Gibson and Omobamidele for each other and Kabak but Hanley remains and the defensive issues remain. I don't see why it is controversial to suggest it might be worth seeing how we look without him. 

Purely because he's been our best central defender in the eyes of most fans and then it's backed up by those annoying individual stats that I know people on here don't like. 

[repman 634]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not saying it was all his fault. But he was crap at that point and his performance was dragging down his defensive partners too. People insisted for ages that Ryan Bennett was crap but after he got away from playing next to Russell Martin he went on to play solidly at midtable Premier League level. 

My general point though is this is a bit occams razor. Our defence has struggled for the last 18 months. The only player who hasn't been taken out of the defence for any extended period of time is Hanley. Aarons was dropped for Byram, Giannoulis for Williams, Gibson and Omobamidele for each other and Kabak but Hanley remains and the defensive issues remain. I don't see why it is controversial to suggest it might be worth seeing how we look without him. 

I agree Martin was playing crap and it was right to drop him, maybe banishing him from the squad was a bit much but that was more Farke stamping down his authority. I wouldn't mind if we dropped Hanley because I want to see AO get plenty of game time and Gibson's passing is much better than Hanley's at LCB. 

See my occams razor view would be that our defence has struggled the last 18 months despite constantly changing players, therefore maybe it isn't the players and there are faults with the setup/coaching of the side. Since Wagner has come in our xG against numbers have been better than under Smith, granted it's still a small sample size.

[king canary 7,578]

Just now, hogesar said:

Purely because he's been our best central defender in the eyes of most fans and then it's backed up by those annoying individual stats that I know people on here don't like. 

I'm not stats averse but you're a bit prone to going BUT DA STATS! as if that settles everything. 

You can't measure Hanley's leadership (or lack there of) statistically, nor his turning circle or his reaction times. He's costing us this season.