One shot on target against the team bottom of the table.

[nutty nigel 7,899]

Surely Gibbs wasn't free?

[littleyellowbirdie 3,137]

2 hours ago, Canaries north said:

I'm confused. Because our scouting was so good in picking up Buendia and Pukki for 1.5 million the pair we are now being watched and outbid.

Is that why we are now signing players for 10 X the amount with 10% of the ability.

I can agree that everyone watches everyone else in the transfer market and nothing is kept secret as the selling club needs to market the player to get top dollar. What I can't believe is our woes in the transfer market are just because we are being copied and out bid. We had a golden period of incoming players for a short while. We have now had a mare. I just can't see it as being completely the fault of other clubs stalking all our attempted signings.

We have wasted a lot of money on very average players and that is our fault completely. 

You can't believe it. That's fine. But after Norwich played such blinders at the outset, if I was an agent who got a call from Norwich interested in my player I'd be sure to make sure it was known to other clubs that we were interested to encourage more interest from clubs with more money. It's not that complicated, and I don't really understand why it should be difficult to believe that agents would do that or that other clubs might do a double take knowing we were interested.

Additionally, it fits with the fact that we've sought an injection of outside capital.

Edited February 20, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Bunny 326]

Given our performance in the transfer market for the last 5 years, the suggestion that clubs are following our every move just to poach prospective signings from us is pretty amusing. 

[Capt. Pants 4,991]

Well Sarge is out for the next 2 games and Pukki is a doubt for tomorrow.

A lot rests on chance creation for Idah but we're going to need goals from midfield again I suspect.

Typically really, anything less than 6 pts puts another dent in out chase for play-offs.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,137]

32 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Given our performance in the transfer market for the last 5 years, the suggestion that clubs are following our every move just to poach prospective signings from us is pretty amusing. 

Don't see why that should be amusing. It would fully explain why we haven't had any more successes like Pukki and Buendia to the same extent since when the changes we made got outstanding and immediate results, and we haven't had any signings as cheap since, which fits with my theory of what has happened since then.

It makes much more sense than the premise that we stopped being able to identify good targets for no logical reason.

Edited February 20, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Bunny 326]

27 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't see why that should be amusing. It would fully explain why we haven't had any more successes like Pukki and Buendia to the same extent since when the changes we made got outstanding and immediate results, and we haven't had any signings as cheap since, which fits with my theory of what has happened since then.

It makes much more sense than the premise that we stopped being able to identify good targets for no logical reason.

Or, maybe, just maybe, Pukki and Buendia were just luck, and Webber doesn't have the analytics geek from Moneyball tied up in the basement being forced to work for twinkies. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,137]

44 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Or, maybe, just maybe, Pukki and Buendia were just luck, and Webber doesn't have the analytics geek from Moneyball tied up in the basement being forced to work for twinkies. 

Unlikely given the record of success previously at Huddersfield.

That's why Norwich headhunted him and he was quickly successful. The fact it went off the rails implies another factor is the issue, which fits with my theory and the fact we've brought in outside investment.

Edited February 20, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Bunny 326]

20 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Unlikely given the record of success previously at Huddersfield.

That's why Norwich headhunted him and he was quickly successful. The fact it went off the rails implies another factor is the issue, which fits with my theory and the fact we've brought in outside investment.

Maybe they ran out of twinkies?

[littleyellowbirdie 3,137]

1 minute ago, The Bunny said:

Maybe they ran out of twinkies?

Possibly. Inability to acquire twinkies fits with needing more finance. 🙃

[hogesar 10,734]

1 hour ago, The Bunny said:

Or, maybe, just maybe, Pukki and Buendia were just luck, and Webber doesn't have the analytics geek from Moneyball tied up in the basement being forced to work for twinkies. 

I think just claiming Pukki and Buendia as luck would be fine if they were our only good signings. But we made plenty of signings that delivered above hosts of other clubs with significantly larger spend and budgets. 

Pukki

Buendia

Krul

Trybull

Stiepermann

Leitner

Hernandez

Zimmerman

As a small list, all delivered fantastic returns for value.

[Mr Angry 1,996]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

What's Mclean got to do with our shots on target? Or are you now saying our defensive pivot midfielder often sitting in between the CB's should also be scoring every game? Get a grip.

He was actually playing in the right back position a lot of the time on Saturday, as Aarons was playing so far forward. 

[The Bunny 326]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think just claiming Pukki and Buendia as luck would be fine if they were our only good signings. But we made plenty of signings that delivered above hosts of other clubs with significantly larger spend and budgets. 

Pukki

Buendia

Krul

Trybull

Stiepermann

Leitner

Hernandez

Zimmerman

As a small list, all delivered fantastic returns for value.

Sure. Not a lot in the last 4 years though. Any credit Webber might have built up over these has long since been used up since. 

Luck is the most likely explanation IMO. Another explanation is that the members of the recruitment team who were responsible for the above transfers have long since departed. Either way, it would appear that the emperor has no clothes. 

[Canaries north 155]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think just claiming Pukki and Buendia as luck would be fine if they were our only good signings. But we made plenty of signings that delivered above hosts of other clubs with significantly larger spend and budgets. 

Pukki

Buendia

Krul

Trybull

Stiepermann

Leitner

Hernandez

Zimmerman

As a small list, all delivered fantastic returns for value.

A few of these you would think we're Farke inspired. He would have known them. Obviously the scouts would have run the rule over them but you would have to say Farke would have had a major part to play. The main 2 were great signings, inspired even, but if I'm not wrong hasn't the recruitment team changed since then. Yes Webber would have been part of that process but when looking at the recruitment before and now it does look like something has changed and the one thing that hasn't is Webber. 

[Canaries north 155]

9 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You can't believe it. That's fine. But after Norwich played such blinders at the outset, if I was an agent who got a call from Norwich interested in my player I'd be sure to make sure it was known to other clubs that we were interested to encourage more interest from clubs with more money. It's not that complicated, and I don't really understand why it should be difficult to believe that agents would do that or that other clubs might do a double take knowing we were interested.

Additionally, it fits with the fact that we've sought an injection of outside capital.

As said we will have to disagree on this one. In my opinion in any business if a certain department loses a few members, then starts underperforming, you would normally say it's the fact that you have lost some good members and been left with the weaker members. Our recruitment was good, people left, our recruitment is poor. I just struggle to think every other club has stopped scouting and is just trying to steal players we are after. Even the players we were said to have had bids in for and lost out on over the last few seasons haven't turned out to be as good as Buendia and Pukki in my opinion. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,137]

7 hours ago, Canaries north said:

As said we will have to disagree on this one. In my opinion in any business if a certain department loses a few members, then starts underperforming, you would normally say it's the fact that you have lost some good members and been left with the weaker members. Our recruitment was good, people left, our recruitment is poor. I just struggle to think every other club has stopped scouting and is just trying to steal players we are after. Even the players we were said to have had bids in for and lost out on over the last few seasons haven't turned out to be as good as Buendia and Pukki in my opinion. 

The identification and recruitment of Pukki and Buendia was overperformance by any standard; possibly the whole problem is that they are now the benchmark, when actually they never should have been. How often does any club pick up a poorly regarded striker on a free who becomes a top premier league goal-scorer at their next club? How many unknowns join a Championship club on a relative pittance and go on to contend to be Messi's prospective replacement for Argentina?

As Hogesar pointed out, we've had good signings since, but those two set an impossibly high bar for regular expectations.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,137]

9 hours ago, Canaries north said:

A few of these you would think we're Farke inspired. He would have known them. Obviously the scouts would have run the rule over them but you would have to say Farke would have had a major part to play. The main 2 were great signings, inspired even, but if I'm not wrong hasn't the recruitment team changed since then. Yes Webber would have been part of that process but when looking at the recruitment before and now it does look like something has changed and the one thing that hasn't is Webber. 

So if Farke clearly had involvement and was listened to with regard to the players he knew personally, why do you therefore think he wasn't involved and listened to regarding players he didn't know personally?

[Canaries north 155]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The identification and recruitment of Pukki and Buendia was overperformance by any standard; possibly the whole problem is that they are now the benchmark, when actually they never should have been. How often does any club pick up a poorly regarded striker on a free who becomes a top premier league goal-scorer at their next club? How many unknowns join a Championship club on a relative pittance and go on to contend to be Messi's prospective replacement for Argentina?

As Hogesar pointed out, we've had good signings since, but those two set an impossibly high bar for regular expectations.

I do agree it was an impossible bar to keep up. But if we take the early signings out of the equation then we really are looking at a director of football that has failed completely. If we include the early signings this still makes the signings over Webber's tenure look poor. Without them it looks like a car crash. 

[Canaries north 155]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So if Farke clearly had involvement and was listened to with regard to the players he knew personally, why do you therefore think he wasn't involved and listened to regarding players he didn't know personally?

He would have been listened to on all signings I would hope. Let's be honest, he's a manager and not a scout. I can easily suggest staff i would take from where I work with great certainty, if moving to a new company. I would really struggle to find staff from somewhere else as this is not my job. I'm a manager but have to trust my HR team to give me the tools to work with. 

[norfolkngood 1,174]

18 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think just claiming Pukki and Buendia as luck would be fine if they were our only good signings. But we made plenty of signings that delivered above hosts of other clubs with significantly larger spend and budgets. 

Pukki

Buendia

Krul

Trybull

Stiepermann

Leitner

Hernandez

Zimmerman

As a small list, all delivered fantastic returns for value.

those signings were signed quite early on in Webber's regin and they were Magic signings all did a job asked of and for very little outlay 

some on that list have been PL quality when here as well 

so my question is what has changed ?

you dont go from pulling names and players out like that to the signings he has in more recent times 

The worst thing is Webber has spent millions buying players who do not perform anything like the players on the list 

i think a scout or recruitment member has left and Webber is not getting the same results as before in the Transfer market 

[hogesar 10,734]

1 hour ago, norfolkngood said:

those signings were signed quite early on in Webber's regin and they were Magic signings all did a job asked of and for very little outlay 

some on that list have been PL quality when here as well 

so my question is what has changed ?

you dont go from pulling names and players out like that to the signings he has in more recent times 

The worst thing is Webber has spent millions buying players who do not perform anything like the players on the list 

i think a scout or recruitment member has left and Webber is not getting the same results as before in the Transfer market 

I think it's more likely that Brexit rules has made the locations he had previous experience and relationships in much harder, so we're having to set up new networks that take a while to mature. The Brazil / South American one we've seen a lot of work put into that but bigger clubs have been there for years nave established roots. We look like we're trying to build networks in these previously less-focused areas.

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

42 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think it's more likely that Brexit rules has made the locations he had previous experience and relationships in much harder, so we're having to set up new networks that take a while to mature. The Brazil / South American one we've seen a lot of work put into that but bigger clubs have been there for years nave established roots. We look like we're trying to build networks in these previously less-focused areas.

Yes we were targeting lower league players from Europe like Buendia, and post Brexit it’s much harder to get them work permits. So for people asking what’s changed, I’d say that’s a pretty obvious answer.

[norfolkngood 1,174]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think it's more likely that Brexit rules has made the locations he had previous experience and relationships in much harder, so we're having to set up new networks that take a while to mature. The Brazil / South American one we've seen a lot of work put into that but bigger clubs have been there for years nave established roots. We look like we're trying to build networks in these previously less-focused areas.

yes i can see that might well be true and well put 

i do not know the exact rules or how many of the golden list would have been able to sign after Brexit

Krul as he has played in this country for so long and international 

Pukki as he was also a international and played in the uk before 

Emi ? i doubt 

the rest as signed from lesser leagues with not being  international players i doubt would have been able to come 

 

[hogesar 10,734]

22 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

yes i can see that might well be true and well put 

i do not know the exact rules or how many of the golden list would have been able to sign after Brexit

Krul as he has played in this country for so long and international 

Pukki as he was also a international and played in the uk before 

Emi ? i doubt 

the rest as signed from lesser leagues with not being  international players i doubt would have been able to come 

 

I think even Pukki was unlikely!

[Canaries north 155]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think it's more likely that Brexit rules has made the locations he had previous experience and relationships in much harder, so we're having to set up new networks that take a while to mature. The Brazil / South American one we've seen a lot of work put into that but bigger clubs have been there for years nave established roots. We look like we're trying to build networks in these previously less-focused areas.

You definitely have a point. It will have made things a lot more difficult. I still can't think of many other clubs who have spent a reasonable amount of money for players who are struggling to live up to the price tags. I know in this crazy world we live in 5 to 10 million doesn't garuntee a quality championship player but you would think at least 1 or 2 of those players should be increasing their price. I look at all the signings in the last couple of years and can only see a drop in market value. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

On 18/02/2023 at 19:44, mannings bandy legs said:

I'll join him. Seen the ** parking his vehicle in a disabled space. Confronted him,basically ignored me and carried on his way.Smacked of " I can,and will,do what I want".The future.

Did you make sure that he definitely hasn't got a blue badge for being joint compromised?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

On 20/02/2023 at 17:52, hogesar said:

I think just claiming Pukki and Buendia as luck would be fine if they were our only good signings. But we made plenty of signings that delivered above hosts of other clubs with significantly larger spend and budgets. 

Pukki

Buendia

Krul

Trybull

Stiepermann

Leitner

Hernandez

Zimmerman

As a small list, all delivered fantastic returns for value.

Any from the other 4 years?

[wcorkcanary 4,774]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Any from the other 4 years?

I think you mean the last 4 years😀. Started well, if that was in fact him driving those signings, but overall recruitment has been poor for a while.