Sorenson

[Richard Richard 191]

Firstly, going against the grain here - I don't really think there's too much to get excited about after the Hull game.

From where I sat in the Upper Barclay I thought we were fairly poor first half against a very poor Hull side. Second half was better but think we would have been vulnerable against a better side.

Hanley had a great game and I thought Idah and Onel showed significant improvement in the second half - here's hoping for consistency with them.

Not quite sure about the love-in for McClean though....

Anyway....to the point (yet again). What is the problem with Sorenson? We have a gaping hole in the holding midfielder position and have had for some time. I've always rated Sorenson - he was excellent as a stand-in left back and I believe he even stood in at centre-back a couple of times. He's always looked assured on the ball with good positional sense, happy to play the easy ball, decent in a tackle.

Why isn't he starting? Lack of pace? Bad attitude?

Surely he's got to be given a chance rather than play McClean there. I noticed him and Sara alternating on Tue with both on occasion sitting deeper than either centre back, made me nervous!

Can anyone shed any light on him? Interesting to see what other people think - he's almost been forgotten as an option in that position.

COYY

 

[jaberry2 768]

Who is McClean? Is this new from McDonalds?

[Deptford Yellow 294]

Sorensen is a mystery wrapped in an enigma …

[Badger 2,745]

I suspect the issue with Sorenson is a lack of dynamism. I love him as a football and he always looks very cultured on the ball but he doesn't have anywhere near the drive of Sara, in particular, not McLean.

[Capt. Pants 4,965]

It's Sorensen.

My perception of him is that in a midfield role he is too slow. Maybe a few weeks of Wagner training will get his legs moving a bit.

He isn't first choice but an entirely useful squad backup player. 

 

 

[canarydan23 4,748]

As has been said on here, Hull had only lost once in the league since November and that was against Sheffield United with 10 men. They were one of the league's top teams based on form going into our match. It's always difficult to quantify, but I think we made them look poor as opposed to them rocking up and having a stinker.

[Barham Blitz 858]

I like Lunghi - I'd like to see him given a go at centre back - but he doesn't have the range of long passing to play the CDM role as Wagner evidently envisages it.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Barham Blitz

[jaberry2 768]

I dont think he is up to the standard of player we need if we are ever to push on. A useful squad addition you could argue. However he is another player who needs game time further to injury for one final assessment.

[Yellow Wal 315]

The more he doesn't play the better some supporters will perceive him to be.

He has had quite a few chances to show what he can do but has never managed to nail down a place in the team.

I would not be disappointed to see him further his career elsewhere.

 

[lake district canary 4,811]

He has everything to be a regular in the first team, intelligent and skilful and tactically aware. Perceived to be a bit too laid back for English football and that aspect presumably being worked on by the club. Wouldn't surprise me if he is a late bloomer and comes into his own as a first team regular in the next few months, maybe sooner.

[daisy 145]

Probably because McLean is playing quite well there at the moment. 

[hogesar 10,695]

I like Sorensen's versatility but overall Mclean is a considerably better player with a much longer list of championship-friendly attributes.

[Yellow Fever 4,415]

I see some similarity in the comments many make of Dowell could also apply to Lungi.

A good football brain - cultured, appears unhurried etc.

In truth I suspect Sorensen is exactly a Wagner type player as per Dowell and will become established.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I think Richard Richard's post is badly timed. There seems to be universal agreement that Kenny had a very good match Tuesday and seemed a perfect fit for the position of someone sitting deep. He isn't a defensive midfielder. He sets up attacks by sitting deep.

[TheGunnShow 7,358]

Kenny's playing well, but playing as a deeper-lying playmaker. Lungi's got a different skill-set - his strengths are his positioning, tactical discipline, tackling, and composure. He's not a bad passer either by any means, but more in a Lukas Rupp sense of passing it in that he's not particularly interested in more incisive passes and all about moving it at speed. There's a misgiving that he lacks "bite". I disagree completely - watch him when he actually goes into a tackle and you'll see Lungi usually goes in quite hard.

He's never really had the chance in his best position. Even when he got three or four games as a DM, he got injured. In the previous Championship-winning season, Skipp got the gig due to better fitness when Lungi had a call-up to Denmark U21s and got no game time and Skipp never looked back.

Thought he and Lees-Melou looked an interesting and nicely balanced partnership last season, but it never had time to settle.

[hogesar 10,695]

13 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Kenny's playing well, but playing as a deeper-lying playmaker. Lungi's got a different skill-set - his strengths are his positioning, tactical discipline, tackling, and composure. He's not a bad passer either by any means, but more in a Lukas Rupp sense of passing it in that he's not particularly interested in more incisive passes and all about moving it at speed. There's a misgiving that he lacks "bite". I disagree completely - watch him when he actually goes into a tackle and you'll see Lungi usually goes in quite hard.

He's never really had the chance in his best position. Even when he got three or four games as a DM, he got injured. In the previous Championship-winning season, Skipp got the gig due to better fitness when Lungi had a call-up to Denmark U21s and got no game time and Skipp never looked back.

Thought he and Lees-Melou looked an interesting and nicely balanced partnership last season, but it never had time to settle.

Sorensen doesn't tackle that great, or intercept particularly well. That's in comparison to all of Hayden, Nunez, and Mclean. He is very, very similar in ball-winning, reading play and intercepting to Gibbs. In fact, their per game stats are almost identical. Gibbs has 4 years on him though.

[TheGunnShow 7,358]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Sorensen doesn't tackle that great, or intercept particularly well. That's in comparison to all of Hayden, Nunez, and Mclean. He is very, very similar in ball-winning, reading play and intercepting to Gibbs. In fact, their per game stats are almost identical. Gibbs has 4 years on him though.

Just looked on WhoScored for both players over the course of their Norwich careers and Lungi's ahead of Gibbs by some way on both (1.6 tackles per game, 1 interception per game for Lungi, Gibbs is on 0.9 tackles per game and 0.5 interceptions). We might be using a different supplier of stats.

Jacob Sørensen - History (whoscored.com)

Liam Gibbs Football Statistics | WhoScored.com

Vaguely remember a chart in the Athletic that had Lungi really high up on the number of tackles won in the team as well.

 

[hogesar 10,695]

9 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Just looked on WhoScored for both players over the course of their Norwich careers and Lungi's ahead of Gibbs by some way on both (1.6 tackles per game, 1 interception per game for Lungi, Gibbs is on 0.9 tackles per game and 0.5 interceptions). We might be using a different supplier of stats.

Jacob Sørensen - History (whoscored.com)

Liam Gibbs Football Statistics | WhoScored.com

Vaguely remember a chart in the Athletic that had Lungi really high up on the number of tackles won in the team as well.

 

No, you're right. I'm only basing it off averages this season (limited I know) but felt unfair to compare overall when you'd like to think in limited Premier League outings Sorensen would be making more tackles / interceptions because we're without the ball for such long periods.

So it's pretty hard to be too definitive about, admittedly. 

[TheGunnShow 7,358]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

No, you're right. I'm only basing it off averages this season (limited I know) but felt unfair to compare overall when you'd like to think in limited Premier League outings Sorensen would be making more tackles / interceptions because we're without the ball for such long periods.

So it's pretty hard to be too definitive about, admittedly. 

Tricky, I agree - the ideal is if they both had reasonable runs in the same team/same season. Not really happened, so that was why I decided to go for their whole time with us.

[sgncfc 1,330]

Sorensen isn't dynamic enough to be anything other than a defender. He did well for us at left back and has looked OK when standing in at CB. Is he a first choice in either position? No.

[ron obvious 1,708]

Don't forget his goal. what a cracker!

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,211]

4 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

I like Lunghi - I'd like to see him given a go at centre back - but he doesn't have the range of long passing to play the CDM role as Wagner evidently envisages it.

Really?

1.17 to 1.33 here. 

 

[repman 745]

Sorensen has played all of maybe 5 games in midfield for the club, I have a hard time believing anyone could get a good read on him based off that alone. He started the first 2 games there this season before having to move to left back and injury, who knows what could have been had he stayed fit. I suspect we'd have seen less of Gibbs that's for sure.

At this point I wonder if the club view him as a sort of super utility man, which is really handy in this league where you're only allowed 7 subs. He can cover all across the defence and midfield too. Based off Wagner's comments about Gibbs it also looks like he is Kenny's backup right now. 

He's also coming off the back of a bad injury and has probably been eased back into things, Kenny hasn't done enough wrong to lose his spot yet either.

[Richard Richard 191]

9 hours ago, jaberry2 said:

Who is McClean? Is this new from McDonalds?

Yes, new burger. Slices of his buttock. Bun within a bun if you will.

[Coneys Knee 1,040]

9 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

I like Lunghi - I'd like to see him given a go at centre back - but he doesn't have the range of long passing to play the CDM role as Wagner evidently envisages it.

I agree. He’s a centre back trying to be a midfielder in my opinion. He could be a very classy centre half if that was his focus. The days where centre backs could only be 6’5 brick $hiz house type players are over.

[Barham Blitz 858]

8 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Really?

1.17 to 1.33 here. 

 

Fair enough.  Whenever I've seen him play he has been tidy and precise without particularly demonstrating that longer quarter back element to his game, but evidently he does have that in the proverbial locker as well.  Still see him as more of a ball playing centre half than a CDM personally and would rather see Gibbs in that role, but all the more reason to give him a go at the back.  Two players capable of picking a pass back there is surely a good thing and he has been demonstrably more comfortable playing left back than Omo or Hanley have been as LCB so it solves that small problem as well.

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

For me, Sorensen has always looked better playing in positions that aren’t his alleged speciality. He is tidy enough for the most part but I’ve never seen him truly have an impact from a midfield role. Useful on the bench because he can cover so many roles but, for me, that’s it. A useful utility player but I’m not sure he has the skill set to demand a starting place in our midfield.

Kenny takes a lot of stick, probably because he’s a player that never hides, demands the ball and puts himself about to be involved.

Back when we were really crap, Fotheringham used to take stick too (stay with me) and while he is/was a vastly inferior player to Kenny he also never hid. Compare that to someone like Sammy Clingan; far more natural ability but was so inferior in terms of positional discipline, staying front and centre when things weren’t going well and graft. The much maligned Gary Doherty used to take a caning as we (yet again) conceded while the gently ambling back dynamic midfielder Clingan was totally exonerated while only appearing in shot as the ball was retrieved from our net.

I think a lot of people that have played in a central midfield role would love to have a Kenny in there, especially the perceived “artists”. He does all the running, competes for the headers, links play and takes pressure away from those with the “keys”. I’d have loved to have played alongside him (mainly because I was **** and he’d have made me look better).

He is also now often dropping to be our deepest player and, purely based on the Hull game, his range of passing from there was a weapon for us. Ok, he’s not Andrea Pirlo, but as a deep lying “quarterback” he was extremely effective.

He’d have been close to MOTM for me, along with Sara and Onel. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[jonnyace1 30]

Ridiculous that people think Sorensen is only good enough as a squad player. He has played a handful of games in his preferred position and is the only DM that the club has apart from Gibbs. How can he be judged on that?.The team still looks suspect defensively and a bit of ballast in midfield is what is required . Every team needs some sort of DM and it’s not hard to see why we keep giving up chances. If Kenny must play- play him further up the pitch..

[lake district canary 4,811]

He's not had enough starts at DM to be able to say he could hold down that position in the team, there always seems to be a more senior player in front of him - and he has been injured along the way too, so difficult for him to be totally match fit and make his mark.

One of those players who can play anywhere on the pitch and I'd love to see him more involved anywhere, as he has quality and intelligence - as every manager since he has been here have said,. Should get some minutes today, even if from the bench.  

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by lake district canary

[TheGunnShow 7,358]

9 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

Fair enough.  Whenever I've seen him play he has been tidy and precise without particularly demonstrating that longer quarter back element to his game, but evidently he does have that in the proverbial locker as well.  Still see him as more of a ball playing centre half than a CDM personally and would rather see Gibbs in that role, but all the more reason to give him a go at the back.  Two players capable of picking a pass back there is surely a good thing and he has been demonstrably more comfortable playing left back than Omo or Hanley have been as LCB so it solves that small problem as well.

Ball-playing centre-half or even libero might be his final position, I suspect.