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kenfoggo

Resignation

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It is time to acknowledge that this squad is not competitive . Despite changing the head coach this squad cannot compete. Without a culling of a whole swath of underperforming players we are a mid table mediocre side. I am resigned to this reality and no longer believe that this squad can push for promotion. Not this season, not next season.

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14 minutes ago, Unhinged Canary said:

Welcome to July 2022.

Where many of us have been for a while.

Yes, I have been slow to acknowledge that this squad is not fit for purpose, desperately hoping that they would start to perform to their supposed potential. It is not to be. With Hanley, McLean , Dowel, Giannoulis  all out of their depth and seemingly undroppable and Tzolis , Placheta, Gibson, Byram, Sara, Nunez and others all mediocre at best there has to be a huge rebuild of players.  Time to move on the dead wood and get some young , energetic, determined players who can pass forwards rather than square or backwards, who can distribute the ball without taking 6 touches to slow play down, who are committed and fit enough to press the opposition .

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Wah wah wah wah.

 

Christ alive, some pants wetting going on here.

You guys should have all pants wet this time last year when we could have turned on Smith to get him out. Damage done squad morale in the toilet and contracts being worn down.

What did you all expect?????

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Problem: Sacking someone in the off-pitch staff didn't magically make the squad better.

Fan solution: Sack someone else in the off-pitch staff to magically make the squad better!

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Wagner has had four games. FOUR. Yesterday was crap, but it took Farke a whole year to get them playing his way. I still think we've got a decent chance of making the top six – although I think we'd be better off having another year in the Championship, as if we did go up we'd more than likely get absolutely buried again.

We saw in those away games at Preston and Coventry that these players CAN play well together, and we saw that Wagner has a desire to play front-foot, high-press football that's brave and dynamic.

Last weekend we were schooled by easily the best team in this division, and yesterday we played poorly against a team on a great run of form.

We've got some eminently winnable games coming up – let's see where we're at in a month's time before we condemn the team to eternal mid-table obscurity, eh?

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4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Problem: Sacking someone in the off-pitch staff didn't magically make the squad better.

Fan solution: Sack someone else in the off-pitch staff to magically make the squad better!


Let’s not also forget how everything was apparently great only two matches ago… we had people booking their Wembley hotels for the play off final.

Our supporters are nothing if not weird, lurching from ecstasy to woe-is-me in a matter of minutes…

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4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Problem: Sacking someone in the off-pitch staff didn't magically make the squad better.

Fan solution: Sack someone else in the off-pitch staff to magically make the squad better!

Who suggested sacking anyone from the off-pitch staff in this thread?

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I don't think it's an over-reaction, but typifies that this squad is going backwards.

My main hope is we do have a good clearout, and the signings are those that Wagner identifies, not Webber.

This league is surreal & shows that we're easily able to win winnable games against the lower teams, and that puts us easily within a shout of the playoffs. What scares me is we've shown all season we're nowhere near capable of competing against teams in the playoffs.

It still seems to be a mental fragility thing. SCore first and we see a different Norwich. Go a goal behind and we're pretty nailed on our heads drop and we wont be able to find a way back into the game!  

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27 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Who suggested sacking anyone from the off-pitch staff in this thread?

Nobody. 

But I will... Webber out.

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Its not the player's fault. If they aren't good enough then so be it. It isn't DW's fault at the moment as he has very little to work with. But all this time and people are still willing to defend Webber and the Board. Pished up against the wall surely should be should down his throat. He should be sacked immediately and told he has made this club worse than it ever was. And the Board should realise 27 years is too long to be in charge. As with anything, time changes things dramatically. Football is moving fast and two octogenarians sat holding hands under a blanket is not today's football.

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Maybe the same fans shouldn't have gone completely overboard with two wins under Wagner and then now, the polar opposite two further games. A little bit of balance needed perhaps?

I keep hearing the squad isn't good enough. But if we made all our players available to other championship clubs it looks like we would strengthen the vast majority of them. 

Both our goalkeepers, recent form aside, would have attracted significant interest at the start of the season.

Hanley and Aarons would easily find a top championship club.

As would Pukki and Sargent.

The likes of McLean and Dowell would still end up at top 6 clubs - they'd strengthen Luton, for example.

But the team is really low on confidence despite the two away wins - the fans are really unhelpful at home - terrible atmosphere and jeering at us playing the way Wagner wants.

It's going to be a real battle to get through this period but the teams we are coming up against give us a vague chance of building a run and the confidence 

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

Wagner has had four games. FOUR. Yesterday was crap, but it took Farke a whole year to get them playing his way. I still think we've got a decent chance of making the top six – although I think we'd be better off having another year in the Championship, as if we did go up we'd more than likely get absolutely buried again.

We saw in those away games at Preston and Coventry that these players CAN play well together, and we saw that Wagner has a desire to play front-foot, high-press football that's brave and dynamic.

Last weekend we were schooled by easily the best team in this division, and yesterday we played poorly against a team on a great run of form.

We've got some eminently winnable games coming up – let's see where we're at in a month's time before we condemn the team to eternal mid-table obscurity, eh?

I genuinely think we are in Catch-22 as a club. Ideally we want to go up as financially if we don’t the impact really will reset the quality of the playing squad.

However this squads mental state looks so damaged from the yo-yo experience if (and likely when) we come straight back down again, I can’t see it being recoverable for another push.

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Writing off this season 

But next season how can you write it off before a ball is kicked ?

i think it is time to clear the decks of deadwood 

the rest are either under performing or lost hunger or to comfortable here 

we need to sign players who have a point to prove and hungry for success ,

 

 

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16 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Maybe the same fans shouldn't have gone completely overboard with two wins under Wagner and then now, the polar opposite two further games. A little bit of balance needed perhaps?

I keep hearing the squad isn't good enough. But if we made all our players available to other championship clubs it looks like we would strengthen the vast majority of them. 

Both our goalkeepers, recent form aside, would have attracted significant interest at the start of the season.

Hanley and Aarons would easily find a top championship club.

As would Pukki and Sargent.

The likes of McLean and Dowell would still end up at top 6 clubs - they'd strengthen Luton, for example.

But the team is really low on confidence despite the two away wins - the fans are really unhelpful at home - terrible atmosphere and jeering at us playing the way Wagner wants.

It's going to be a real battle to get through this period but the teams we are coming up against give us a vague chance of building a run and the confidence 

And it should have started yesterday.

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Sadly the signing of Hayden proved damaging

Crying out for someone in his position in the summer and landed a crock

..and because there was no clause to cut it short in Jan we're lumbered with him and his wages to seemingly have adressed it in the recent window ,when we still needed someone as much as we ever did.

Trying to paper over this with bits and pieces mudfielders trying to 'do a job' vs top 6/8 teams was never going to work

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5 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Sadly the signing of Hayden proved damaging

Crying out for someone in his position in the summer and landed a crock

..and because there was no clause to cut it short in Jan we're lumbered with him and his wages to seemingly have adressed it in the recent window ,when we still needed someone as much as we ever did.

Trying to paper over this with bits and pieces mudfielders trying to 'do a job' vs top 6/8 teams was never going to work

Don't often agree with you, but this is spot-on.

That position is key to the whole team, and there's been a gaping hole there ever since Skipp went back to Spurs. A decent DM would make such a difference, giving our CBs more protection and more options when we're trying to beat the opposition press. Would give Sara and Nunez much more of a chance to adapt to English football. Would allow our FBs to get forward with more confidence.

I'm not nearly as negative about McLean as you are (and certainly don't intend to reopen that debate here!) but I think we can both probably agree that at the very best he's no more than a stop-gap in that position.

Unlike many others on this thread, I think the squad is good enough for the top six, with that crucial gap.

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2 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Wagner has had four games. FOUR. Yesterday was crap, but it took Farke a whole year to get them playing his way. I still think we've got a decent chance of making the top six – although I think we'd be better off having another year in the Championship, as if we did go up we'd more than likely get absolutely buried again.

We saw in those away games at Preston and Coventry that these players CAN play well together, and we saw that Wagner has a desire to play front-foot, high-press football that's brave and dynamic.

Last weekend we were schooled by easily the best team in this division, and yesterday we played poorly against a team on a great run of form.

We've got some eminently winnable games coming up – let's see where we're at in a month's time before we condemn the team to eternal mid-table obscurity, eh?

You're probably right. I have a feeling that we're going to be close to the top 6 despite our obvious shortcomings. If we did go up through the play offs next season won't be pretty 

What bothers me is that numerous people on this forum were stating the obvious at the start of the season and were being shouted down. If we could see it why couldn't Webber? 

Edited by dylanisabaddog

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5 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Wagner has had four games. FOUR. Yesterday was crap, but it took Farke a whole year to get them playing his way. I still think we've got a decent chance of making the top six – although I think we'd be better off having another year in the Championship, as if we did go up we'd more than likely get absolutely buried again.

We saw in those away games at Preston and Coventry that these players CAN play well together, and we saw that Wagner has a desire to play front-foot, high-press football that's brave and dynamic.

Last weekend we were schooled by easily the best team in this division, and yesterday we played poorly against a team on a great run of form.

We've got some eminently winnable games coming up – let's see where we're at in a month's time before we condemn the team to eternal mid-table obscurity, eh?

I think it's easier to rebuild a squad in the championship than the prem.

I think the difficulty with doing it in the premier league is that you HAVE to sign players - like we did, to build out a squad. If you don't have reasonable depth you are stuffed - as we found out in two seasons where covid impacted.

You want a strong championship team that you can then afford to add to.

In many senses, we were promoted too soon with Farke. The same happened with Worthington really - though that squad was much closer to survival - just a goal, to turn a draw into a win.

Need to get in a few championship players who know this level and perform well in it and are around 25/26, the start of the peak.

At the moment, it feels almost like we want to play a certain way but we're also trying to fit an old way into that system as well.

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3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

You're probably right. I have a feeling that we're going to be close to the top 6 despite our obvious shortcomings. If we did go up through the play offs next season won't be pretty 

What bothers me is that numerous people on this forum were stating the obvious at the start of the season and were being shouted down. If we could see it why couldn't Webber? 

Or Webber could see it and relied upon the information from scouts to try and address it.

I do think it would have been a bit of a different season had Rowe not been injured for so long, or Hayden being out considering what a huge piece of the Jigsaw he would have been. Idah has been out injured too - not that our striking department has been an issue really. 

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At the moment is training concentrating on fitness at the expense of tactics etc? Wagner was not happy at the state of the squads fitness when he arrived. If the focus is on fitness it will lead to inconsistency in decision making as a result. The fact we had more possession yesterday but were not able to use it to best benefit is perhaps evidence of this.

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8 hours ago, kenfoggo said:

It is time to acknowledge that this squad is not competitive . Despite changing the head coach this squad cannot compete. Without a culling of a whole swath of underperforming players we are a mid table mediocre side. I am resigned to this reality and no longer believe that this squad can push for promotion. Not this season, not next season.

It was good enough at PNE and Coventry. Is it that having underperformed all season the players decided to step up a gear for Wagner's first couple of matches but have reverted to type after the Burnley setback? The remaining matches this month should answer that question as twelve points from the four games isn't asking a lot.

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6 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

And it should have started yesterday.

Well at least a better performance even if we didn't manage a win.

But it has to start against Hull. Home form and getting the home fans behind this group of players is absolutely critical.

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On 12/02/2023 at 09:22, Monty13 said:

Who suggested sacking anyone from the off-pitch staff in this thread?

Its ok mate, he's  stuck in a loop, cant seem to get that same untrue mantra out of his head. I am starting to fear for his sanity. 

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On 12/02/2023 at 11:10, Robert N. LiM said:

Don't often agree with you, but this is spot-on.

That position is key to the whole team, and there's been a gaping hole there ever since Skipp went back to Spurs. A decent DM would make such a difference, giving our CBs more protection and more options when we're trying to beat the opposition press. Would give Sara and Nunez much more of a chance to adapt to English football. Would allow our FBs to get forward with more confidence.

I'm not nearly as negative about McLean as you are (and certainly don't intend to reopen that debate here!) but I think we can both probably agree that at the very best he's no more than a stop-gap in that position.

Unlike many others on this thread, I think the squad is good enough for the top six, with that crucial gap.

Yep Two DMs needed , maybe get away with one if Gibbs carries on progressing well, but is he a long term DM? 

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On 12/02/2023 at 15:38, shefcanary said:

At the moment is training concentrating on fitness at the expense of tactics etc? Wagner was not happy at the state of the squads fitness when he arrived. If the focus is on fitness it will lead to inconsistency in decision making as a result. The fact we had more possession yesterday but were not able to use it to best benefit is perhaps evidence of this.

It's more that there isn't the time to work on tactics. Pre season is when most of the tactical ideas will be instilled, once things get moving there becomes a greater focus on recovery and keeping the players fit. If Wagner is similar to Farke in terms of a heavy workload in training I imagine most of the fitness people will be very wary of ramping up halfway through the season. It's all well and good putting the work in on the training pitch but you've got to then have enough in the legs to go win a football match on a Saturday (and sometimes midweek too). Obviously you can still do small bits and have team meetings where you outline what you want but we're a long way off what Wagner will ultimately want us to look like.

If only there had been a month long break in the middle of the season which could easily have worked as a 2nd pre season and give a new manager the chance the properly instil his ideas without having to worry about upcoming fixtures.

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