Todd "cryptic post" Cantwell has returned!

[chicken 2,604]

On 07/02/2023 at 07:45, unique said:

The bottom line is that he was sold, no doubt, for a pittance. There was a time when he was valued at upwards of £20m.

He has been spurned by consecutive Norwich coaches, with Webber being the common denominator. It all points to a spat with Webber.

Whatever the ins and outs of it, the situation has been badly mishandled and the club missed out on a substantial payday..

’Self-funded’, my ar*e,, looking more like ‘self-destructed’ by the week….

 

This would be superb, were it not utterly full of inaccuracies. 

[Monty13 2,229]

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I see there is talk of Cantwell talking to TNC. If his plan is to use that forum to reveal whatever his complaint is then that would be a mistake. If this is something serious then he needs to be brave enough to be interviewed by a professional journalist.

Someone who will not blithely accept what Cantwell says but push back and ask hard follow-up questions to get to the truth, as opposed to the player's version of it.

Otherwise the club will have the dilemma of either responding with its version, this prolonging this nonsense, or saying nothing, which would be taken by Cantwell's supporters as a tacit admission of guilt.

I’m not sure what’s in that for Todd Purple. Feels more like Todd wants to get something off his chest, he clearly feels wronged.

Personally I’m at the point I’d rather he just tell his side of the story and let people decide, not like the club is going to answer in depth questions on the subject to a journalist either.

Ultimately for the club they can ignore Cantwell but regardless of who he talks to journalists will have follow up questions for the club. I don’t see a situation where it isn’t prolonged unless they say nothing in response personally.

[lake district canary 4,531]

12 hours ago, Petriix said:

The rest of the sentence (which you omitted) literally said:

Which is exactly the period "under Farke just before he was banished to the under 23s".

If you really want to understand my point of view (rather than just claiming that your subjective opinion is more valid than mine) then you need to understand the context of Cantwell's decline in parallel to that of the team.

My belief is that Cantwell suffered more than anyone else with the change of tactics. We signed Rashica, Tzolis and Sargent who all played in the attacking midfield roles while reducing the number of AMs from 3 to 2.

Cantwell's strength lay in dropping between the lines, linking midfield to attack by finding pockets of space in which to receive the ball and quickly move it on. People focus on the goals and assists, but Cantwell was more about providing that penultimate pass which carved the space open. There's no state for 'assisting the assist' as far as I know, but that's what he did.

Suddenly his role didn't exist anymore. It was winger or CM and he was almost exclusively pushed into the wide attacking position when he was playing. He lacked the physical attributes for either of those jobs, but he was also totally exposed by the fragility of the midfield behind him.

No one played well in that system. The defensive structure was flawed and there was no pattern to the attacking play other than hit the channels and cross it in.

We don't know what happened to make Farke banish him. I suspect that Todd was vociferous in his unhappiness at the turn of events which had led to his 'loss of form' and he likely lost confidence before having a bit of a breakdown (with unknown external issues contributing).

We had lost a £15M player for an under 23 in a few months while we were being treated to the delights of Gilmour, PLM, Norman and Rashica. 

You'll have to forgive me for continuing to hold the belief that we would have been far more successful sticking with the 4-2-3-1 with Cantwell in his preferred position, Dowell at number 10 etc. than the incoherent mess that we witnessed.

So your 'did nothing in a yellow shirt for 19 months' is my 'tried and failed to adapt to a flawed system'. Tellingly, when we saw a return to the 4-2-3-1, we saw Cantwell at his best. The haters all conveniently ignore his exceptional cameo against Stoke; after which we only saw him a couple more times.

He was playing as well as ever (in my opinion) before Smith changed the system again and he was dropped into obscurity for the last time.

If that 'makes no sense' to you then I can't help you. 

Even if what you say is right and that on the pitch stuff was affected by tactics/formations etc, it doesn't take into account the other stuff - the problems with the agent and the delayed signing of the contract in the 2018/19 season, the losses of focus over hype around possble transfers, the social media stuff, personal stuff that no-one really knows about.......in other words it's a complex situation.

My own thoughts about him on the pitch are based on what I've seen - and as well as the good stuff, which there has obviously been, there have been times where he has not been at the races.  What really annoyed me was a cup match I went to in Burnley when he was supposed to be on hot form and I specifically wanted to watch his performance - and to say I was disappointed with his attitude is an understatement. He barely moved the whole match, strolling around giving the occasional short pass - it really looked as if he thought he was above playing in that match - a kind of superior attitude where it looked as if he thought he didn't really have to try.

I know there may be mitigating circumstances over things over the years at CR, but there have been so many occasions where he hasn't helped his own cause.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

12 hours ago, Petriix said:

The rest of the sentence (which you omitted) literally said:

aside from him looking very lost played on the wing in a 4-3-3. 

He'll be relieved to have signed for Rangers then to play in Beale's 4-3-3

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Even if what you say is right and that on the pitch stuff was affected by tactics/formations etc, it doesn't take into account the other stuff - the problems with the agent and the delayed signing of the contract in the 2018/19 season, the losses of focus over hype around possble transfers, the social media stuff, personal stuff that no-one really knows about.......in other words it's a complex situation.

My own thoughts about him on the pitch are based on what I've seen - and as well as the good stuff, which there has obviously been, there have been times where he has not been at the races.  What really annoyed me was a cup match I went to in Burnley when he was supposed to be on hot form and I specifically wanted to watch his performance - and to say I was disappointed with his attitude is an understatement. He barely moved the whole match, strolling around giving the occasional short pass - it really looked as if he thought he was above playing in that match - a kind of superior attitude where it looked as if he thought he didn't really have to try.

I know there may be mitigating circumstances over things over the years at CR, but there have been so many occasions where he hasn't helped his own cause.

I think Norwich fans were happy, on the whole, to just accept that he needed a 'fresh start'.

Took him a week to start talking about Norwich. I bet Rangers are well chuffed.

Petriix thinks we should get over him. That will be incredibly easy, once he stops mentioning us. 

[Barham Blitz 652]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He'll be relieved to have signed for Rangers then to play in Beale's 4-3-3

4-3-3 when you are massively dominating possession and generally encamped in the opposition half in 90% of the matches you play tends to be a very different system in practice than a counterattacking and more direct 4-3-3 when you don't and aren't.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

It will be interesting to see what he comes out with. The trouble is much of his ramblings are cryptic and not particularly coherent. I would have thought such could be easily and succinctly rebuffed by NCFC if they choose to.

There may (now) be a journo up in Scotland keen to interview him, to get his side of the story? That's likely to be his best option to better articulate his side of the story.

Either way Rangers will be concerned as he clearly hasn't left that 'baggage' behind.

 

[Mello Yello 2,280]

All these shenanigans started when Todd was invited a few years ago to turn on the City's Christmas ilumanayshuns  illumiashans illomnaishones .....lights.....

Celebridee status, Lamborghini and to quote 'Hey I've made it!'.....

FACT!....

erm....maybe?....

Edited February 9, 2023 by Mello Yello

[Mr Angry 1,545]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Even if what you say is right and that on the pitch stuff was affected by tactics/formations etc, it doesn't take into account the other stuff - the problems with the agent and the delayed signing of the contract in the 2018/19 season, the losses of focus over hype around possble transfers, the social media stuff, personal stuff that no-one really knows about.......in other words it's a complex situation.

My own thoughts about him on the pitch are based on what I've seen - and as well as the good stuff, which there has obviously been, there have been times where he has not been at the races.  What really annoyed me was a cup match I went to in Burnley when he was supposed to be on hot form and I specifically wanted to watch his performance - and to say I was disappointed with his attitude is an understatement. He barely moved the whole match, strolling around giving the occasional short pass - it really looked as if he thought he was above playing in that match - a kind of superior attitude where it looked as if he thought he didn't really have to try.

I know there may be mitigating circumstances over things over the years at CR, but there have been so many occasions where he hasn't helped his own cause.

Yeah, I went to that cup game at Burnley too and he quite literally did nothing all game. Not surprising though, as he didn’t play due to a hamstring injury.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

34 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Yeah, I went to that cup game at Burnley too and he quite literally did nothing all game. Not surprising though, as he didn’t play due to a hamstring injury.

Oh dear.

I tried to save Lakey by suggesting he may have confused it with the 0-0 Burnley away in the league on 2nd October 2021.

Unfortunately it looks like Cantwell didn't feature in that game either.

[Mengo 821]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He'll be relieved to have signed for Rangers then to play in Beale's 4-3-3

The goal of the 4-3-3 formation is to overwhelm opponents with numerical superiority in attack and typically favours controlling the majority of matches through possession.

And in the big bad world 🌎 there are always two teams , with all formations fluid as the game progression. 

I agree 👍 TVB with your take on this saga of Cantwell and Webber. ( Let's not beat about the Bush) . Big ego v Big ego never ends up well. And we hear that todd needed to  grow up. I would hasten to add that the other guy needed to grow up as well. In the big picture possibly a lot of money 💰 has been spùñķed up the wall. AN utter disaster of total mismanagement.  Narcissistic and egotistical beings WTF.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Mengo said:

The goal of the 4-3-3 formation is to overwhelm opponents with numerical superiority in attack and typically favours controlling the majority of matches through possession.

And in the big bad world 🌎 there are always two teams , with all formations fluid as the game progression. 

I agree 👍 TVB with your take on this saga of Cantwell and Webber. ( Let's not beat about the Bush) . Big ego v Big ego never ends up well. And we hear that todd needed to  grow up. I would hasten to add that the other guy needed to grow up as well. In the big picture possibly a lot of money 💰 has been spùñķed up the wall. AN utter disaster of total mismanagement.  Narcissistic and egotistical beings WTF.

Oh well.

The players clearly got some talent, but not on the level of Buendia or Maddison.

If you ask me the reason we failed to cash in on him is that Webber pegged a price of £30m on his head. Realistically he was always a £15m player.

For all the drama, tantrums, speculation, I suspect that over valuing him at his best is the primary reason we failed to cash in.

[Mr Angry 1,545]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Oh dear.

I tried to save Lakey by suggesting he may have confused it with the 0-0 Burnley away in the league on 2nd October 2021.

Unfortunately it looks like Cantwell didn't feature in that game either.

Might have been the league game in September 2019, he’d scored in the win against Man City the previous week and got 2 assists against Newcastle a month earlier so could have been on “hot form”. Can’t remember much about that Burnley game apart from the journey back to Liverpool being delayed by the number of Blackpool fans trying to get on the train at Accrington.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I have no idea how we got promoted both those times. According to subjects like this one, we had a bunch of lazy posers who couldn't wait to get paid. Todd, Kenny, Gibson, Sorenson, Hugill, Vrancic, Rupp, Zimmerman, Byram all were/are lumbered within that bracket.

Edited February 9, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

I have no idea how we got promoted both those times. According to subjects like this one, we had a bunch of lazy posers who couldn't wait to get paid. Todd, Kenny, Gibson, Sorenson, Hugill, Vrancic, Rupp, Zimmerman, Byram all were/are lumbered within that bracket.

Thought most people loved Zimmermann to be fair.

[Petriix 2,834]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He'll be relieved to have signed for Rangers then to play in Beale's 4-3-3

Thanks for the thorough and well reasoned response to all the points I made... 

4-3-3 is not a bad system per se, it just requires coherent midfield responsibilities (in and out of possession) with players capable of fulfilling those roles within their natural strengths.

With an athletic and disciplined CDM, and two 8s who can read the situation, you can afford to push your wide attackers up higher, especially when you're dominating the game and generally outclass your opposition in every position.

4-3-3 is best utilised by teams with real attacking weapons which force the opposition to react. Even then, those teams tend to switch to a more balanced system when up against equal or better opponents. 

Finally, while I don't follow Rangers, I'm fairly sure they usually/often play 4-2-3-1.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Petriix

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, Mr Angry said:

Yeah, I went to that cup game at Burnley too and he quite literally did nothing all game. Not surprising though, as he didn’t play due to a hamstring injury.

Yeah, my bad, got the games mixed up - it was the Preston cup match in the first PL season. The description I gave of his performance that day stands.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

51 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Thanks for the thorough and well reasoned response to all the points I made... 

4-3-3 is not a bad system per se, it just requires coherent midfield responsibilities (in and out of possession) with players capable of fulfilling those roles within their natural strengths.

With an athletic and disciplined CDM, and two 8s who can read the situation, you can afford to push your wide attackers up higher, especially when you're dominating the game and generally outclass your opposition in every position.

4-3-3 is best utilised by teams with real attacking weapons which force the opposition to react. Even then, those teams tend to switch to a more balanced system when up against equal or better opponents. 

Finally, while I don't follow Rangers, I'm fairly sure they usually/often play 4-2-3-1.

We're never going to be on the same page about Todd Cantwell because you believed he was good enough to build a team around, saying as such several times, and I simply didn't.

The kid has some talent and good luck to him at Rangers, where he'll likely win a few trophies and play in Europe, if he can wipe the chip off his shoulder regarding whatever went down at Norwich. He's never going to be considered a Norwich legend now so he would be best advised to try and become a Rangers legend. His long life after football will be more enjoyable if he's thought of fondly by his former clubs, and he might need call on one of them for a job.

But I can't see him playing in the Premier League again.

Beale does use both 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. There's loads of videos of Beale talking through his 4-3-3 and his transitions on YouTube, it was used at Rangers under Gerrard, at QPR under Beale and has been used at Rangers since he returned there a couple of months ago.

I've always seem Cantwell as a natural number 10 personally. something else you and I will disagree with as you often called for Cantwell on the left. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

15 hours ago, Monty13 said:

I’m not sure what’s in that for Todd Purple. Feels more like Todd wants to get something off his chest, he clearly feels wronged.

Personally I’m at the point I’d rather he just tell his side of the story and let people decide, not like the club is going to answer in depth questions on the subject to a journalist either.

Ultimately for the club they can ignore Cantwell but regardless of who he talks to journalists will have follow up questions for the club. I don’t see a situation where it isn’t prolonged unless they say nothing in response personally.

Monty, from what seems to be Cantwell’s perspective there would be absolutely zilch for him in what I talked about, and I would  be amazed if he went ahead with it. My point only is is that if he does a softball interview with only his side of the story being told then that will do nothing to answer the questions fans have and just prolong the nonsense.

Edited February 9, 2023 by PurpleCanary

[Petriix 2,834]

4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We're never going to be on the same page about Todd Cantwell

We don't have to agree. That's the great thing about opinions. I enjoy the debate, otherwise I wouldn't engage. However, when it comes to what I see as bullying, I will vociferously object.

You can argue whatever you like about the football side of things, but the person stuff doesn't sit right with me and I will continue to call it out. That's not necessarily blaming you personally for everything that gets thrown around (and apologies if I've lumped you in with some of the less rational posters here), I've just seen too many unnecessary character attacks against someone who I think was more deserving of respect. 

[ricardo 7,345]

I think we are long past the time when we should let sleeping dogs lie. I always thought he would turn out to be the best of the bunch and eventually go for the biggest fee but for whatever reason it didnt work out that way. From a fans perspective this has all come to an unsatisfactory conclusion where nobody is in possession of all the facts that brought about the current situation.

Its never good when players leave with an undercurrent of ill feeling. It does nothing for the reputation of the player or the club. There will always be someone who likes to stir things up and rake over the coals. Personally I am sorry things ended the way they did.

[Icecream Snow 761]

18 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Monty, from what seems to be Cantwell’s perspective there would be absolutely zilch for him in what I talked about, and I would  be amazed if went ahead with it. My point only is is that if he does a softball interview with only his side of the story being told then that will do nothing to answer the questions fans have and just prolong the nonsense.

I would imagine it would be very similar to the interview TNC did with Bassong. Which is mainly Bassong talking unchallenged and the Reeves nodding. Not that I really blame them, because Bassong wouldn't have agreed to the interview otherwise, but still.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=899288071467903

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

5 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

I would imagine it would be very similar to the interview TNC did with Bassong. Which is mainly Bassong talking unchallenged and the Reeves nodding.

Whatever you do don't google "Chris Reeve fountain partnership" and then visit their website.

You'll see a video ad of Chris Reeve nodding pretty much every time you try and watch a YouTube video, on any subject, for 18+ months. Never been so sick of somebodies face.

[chicken 2,604]

7 hours ago, ricardo said:

I think we are long past the time when we should let sleeping dogs lie. I always thought he would turn out to be the best of the bunch and eventually go for the biggest fee but for whatever reason it didnt work out that way. From a fans perspective this has all come to an unsatisfactory conclusion where nobody is in possession of all the facts that brought about the current situation.

Its never good when players leave with an undercurrent of ill feeling. It does nothing for the reputation of the player or the club. There will always be someone who likes to stir things up and rake over the coals. Personally I am sorry things ended the way they did.

100% this.

I still think Todd could go on to have a good career - it will all very much depend upon his application at Rangers, so far though, he seems to be doing ok.

As for the "guessing" - I am with @Petriix - some of it is just stupid and verging on vile. I am somewhat amused by adult men running around internet forums having a tizzy over a social media post they don't understand. We had this before. We had comments about what he wears in instagram photos, his hair style, the "alice band" etc etc etc.

We have people going on about tantrums and strops... Yet in reality, Buendia did have tantrums and strops on the pitch. We rarely get the full picture of what happens. Sometimes we get more of a picture than we think we'll get. As said before, Sutton has spoken a fair bit about his transfer. Iwan wrote a piece about when it came time to leave the club in his book as did Huckerby.

It will never cease to amaze me that many of the people who are going nuts over what they call "cryptic" posts are the ones that never rated him. Just why they are so clearly obsessed by a player they never rated I'll never know. I don't remember this happening to players like Lee Marshall, who whilst good, was no where near as good as he fancied himself to be. I don't see Cantwell acting like that at all. If anything, I would say he had a real hit to his confidence. Even at the start of last season when he was playing regularly, he had some of the best stats in terms of evidence to working hard, tackling, distance covered etc.

I think people do just need to move on - the rubbish their spouting continues to paint them in as bad a light as Cantwell if not worse.

[Monty13 2,229]

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Monty, from what seems to be Cantwell’s perspective there would be absolutely zilch for him in what I talked about, and I would  be amazed if he went ahead with it. My point only is is that if he does a softball interview with only his side of the story being told then that will do nothing to answer the questions fans have and just prolong the nonsense.

I mean yes? I presume that’s what he wants. I don’t know why he’d agree to a proper interview when the presumably other party in this saga has refused to be questioned for months now.

Here’s the other thing, he owes us and the club nothing really at this point. I don’t know what’s gone on other than the snippets of drama that were pretty obvious, but he clearly isn’t happy and needs some form of closure. I disagree and think letting him have it is probably the quickest way this ends. I doubt there’s going to be anything particularly crazy revealed.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

9 hours ago, chicken said:

 @Petriix I don't remember this happening to players like Lee Marshall, who whilst good, was no where near as good as he fancied himself to be. 

Trye, Lee Marshall didn't get any grief for his TitTok videos, tweets or Instagram posts.

May have helped that Bebo and MySpace didn't even exist when he played for us.

[CANARYKING 634]

9 hours ago, Monty13 said:

I mean yes? I presume that’s what he wants. I don’t know why he’d agree to a proper interview when the presumably other party in this saga has refused to be questioned for months now.

Here’s the other thing, he owes us and the club nothing really at this point. I don’t know what’s gone on other than the snippets of drama that were pretty obvious, but he clearly isn’t happy and needs some form of closure. I disagree and think letting him have it is probably the quickest way this ends. I doubt there’s going to be anything particularly crazy revealed.

“ he us and the club nothing “ how about the two and a half million in wages for doing **** all !

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

1 hour ago, CANARYKING said:

“ he us and the club nothing “ how about the two and a half million in wages for doing **** all !

To be fair I believe we took up the option to extend his contract last June. We shouldn't have done that if Webber truly thought he was a ****. We gambled on getting a reasonable transfer fee for him but unfortunately that didn't work out, so he left for virtually nothing, or £1.5m if you believe rumours.

We didn't actually buy Todd in the first place so isn't like as we paid £15m for him plus wages. 

It sounds as if the decision was made virtually as soon as Wagner got here that we wouldn't be renewing his contract, but I'm not convinced that was DW's decision. If that was the case Todd would have been hurt regardless if he wanted to stay here or not.

[Mr Angry 1,545]

The most interesting thing I’ve learned from this thread is that he has a pink Lamborghini. Can anyone provide a picture of it please?

[Petriix 2,834]

44 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

It sounds as if the decision was made virtually as soon as Wagner got here that we wouldn't be renewing his contract

I don't understand why people keep suggesting that we could unilaterally renew his contract. He didn't want to sign another contract here and I don't think we could/would offer the wages he was after.