Personnel

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Watching the game yesterday the main impression I was left with was that I dont think we have the personnel at present to play the way Wagner wants to play.

Wagner I think was the right managerial choice. His style of play has a better chance of being successful in the Premier League, and our problem with Farkeball was that it worked very well in the championship when you had the best players, but proved not to work when you have the poorest squad in the division, meaning on promotion you are probably looking at a complete squad overhaul or a change in system. We always needed a way of playing that could get us up, but then also stand a chance of keeping us there without the need for major surgery.

BUT... it doesnt look to me like we have the players at present, they look square pegs in round holes.

To play out from the back you need a keeper comfortable with the ball at his feet and good at distributing. That doesnt seem to be either Krul or Gunn.

Aarons and Giannoulis can certainly attack, though both are questionable in defence and Giannoulis and found himself getting hooked again. Is that 3 managers now?

Gibson is supposed to be a ball playing CB, as is Hanley. Dont see it myself. Not Omo's strength.

McLean seemed to pass well but isnt really what I would highlight as his strength. Sara Im still working out. Nunez certainly has the flair and the passing ability. Could he play in front of the CBs as a deep lying midfielder?

Hernandez I love and hope he can capture his best form, though many think he is past it and an emergency stop-gap player for now. Placheta is possibly the worst player I've ever seen in yellow, Tzolis looked incredibly stiff and awkward yesterday like he needed a **** - no idea what was going on there. Showed he can produce in that game against Bournmouth, but remember RvW and Naismith started well as well. Dowell is a square peg and certainly doesnt belong on the wing. Idah I dont know what he does on the training pitch but it must be good because he's not got that new contract based on his match contributions. Sargent has found his level and doesnt look nearly as terrible as last season, but both he and Pukki barely touched the ball yesterday.

Pukki struck me with his movement and footwork and he clearly still has it. I hope he stays but he may not be the kind of striker Wagner wants for his system. Not sure Josh is either.

 

This squad strikes me as needing a big overhaul. Im sure many will disagree and I think an overhaul is the last thing the club wants. But that's my take as an armchair fan.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Maybe do the overhaul at the end of the season.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Difficult problem when the whole lot of them look out of place.......but then a team/squad always seems awful when it is off form or lacking confidence.  Get the same players as played yesterday playing with confidence and belief and they might suddenly start looking like world beaters. Unlikely, I know, because you can't legislate for stupid mistakes, but nerves can do funny things to players. Krul's blunder was awful - and imo so was Dowells's miss - all he had to do was pass the ball straight into the net from eight yards and he managed to hit it near the goalie.

Terrible game to watch really, everything that was bad about us in the last regime was there yesterday. But you have to believe they can do better and that this was a game too early in Wagner's reign to judge him and what the players might be able to do under him. We know Krul is better than yesterday and so is Dowell. So are the others. it is simply a case of judging them once they have had a few more games under the new manager. 

Burnley are so confident, so solid and settled - and we are the opposite - under confident, uncertain, playing a style that is so different - and the result was probably  foregone conclusion. So forget it and move on, I reckon. There will be some squad changes but no need to go over the top with them.....just got to get the players already here into a winning mentality. 

 

[Chelm Canary 404]

This was 1 game though and i'd say the previous 2 games under Wagner went pretty well. 

We have a lot of games coming up against sides in and around relegation, so Lets see what happens in a few games time. 

I'm not too worried about losing to the team running away with the league. 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Chelm Canary

[Gordon Bennett 780]

36 minutes ago, Chelm Canary said:

This was 1 game though and i'd say the previous 2 games under Wagner went pretty well. 

We have a lot of games coming up against sides in and around relegation, so Lets see what happens in a few games time. 

I'm not too worried about losing to the team running away with the league. 

 

Exactly, there has been a lot of knee jerkery since half past two yesterday afternoon. I know it's letting off frustration but much of it has been unnecessary. Just got to write yesterday off and look forward. 

[king canary 7,578]

I think the likes of McLean, Hanley, Krul, Gibson and Onel are good enough to get results vs 18 or 19 other teams in this division. 

Yesterday reminded me a bit of the games v Watford under Farke when we went up last time, where we lost twice and they were able to exploit our weaknesses in the way most of the rest of the division couldn't.

I'll worry more in the short term if teams like Hull and Birmingham start taking advantage of it.

[repman 634]

Bar Hanley and Krul I think the squad is more than capable of playing out the back. These things don't come overnight though, the confidence and understanding will build up over time. We're 6 months behind Burnley, the best side in the league, and we weren't as far off them as 3-0 suggests.

[Chelm Canary 404]

Burnley didn't even have to break us down. It was 3 soft goals and a disappointing performance but this certainly isn't going to be happening week in week out. 

Burnley had a good day and we had an inexplicably poor one. I think we can certainly leave it at that and push on. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Our defence cannot handle a proper press.

[yellowrider120 761]

2 hours ago, Chelm Canary said:

This was 1 game though and i'd say the previous 2 games under Wagner went pretty well. 

We have a lot of games coming up against sides in and around relegation, so Lets see what happens in a few games time. 

I'm not too worried about losing to the team running away with the league. 

 

But you should be worried surely at the manner of defeat and the performance overall. There's 'losing' and there's 'losing' (by being appalling) and we were certainly the latter.

[repman 634]

1 minute ago, yellowrider120 said:

But you should be worried surely at the manner of defeat and the performance overall. There's 'losing' and there's 'losing' (by being appalling) and we were certainly the latter.

If Wagner had been in the job since the start of the season then I would be more worried but this was his 3rd proper game in charge. Also he's joined in the middle of the season, the schedule means he can't impart his ideas like he would if it was pre-season. He'll have to be much more selective in what is done in training. Despite that we already look a much better coached side than we have done in the previous 12 months.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

35 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

But you should be worried surely at the manner of defeat and the performance overall. There's 'losing' and there's 'losing' (by being appalling) and we were certainly the latter.

We learnt nothing new. Our team has a weak mentality - they look like Brazil when dominating but crumble at the first sign of real challenge. Then the midfield are easily overrun and the defence becomes atrocious. 
 

Bottom line is that the club couldn’t afford to fund either promotion recently. This meant a very average champs team  with a couple of stars (puki & Emi) over achieved. We then cashed in on the creative star and the other one has aged. And we are back to being a fairly average champs side. I think we merit 10th on performances so far. We are too skilful for bottom half but too powder puff for the promotion contenders - none of whom we have yet beaten 

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

I was not surprised by the defeat but our lack lustre start was a real eye opener bearing in mind we still had slender hopes of automatic promotion. It's was also on the back of the best part of a 2 week break which many on here thought would be the perfect opportunity to perfect Wagnerball further, and get fitter. Instead we saw the complete opposite, which was highly frustrating.

In theory some very winnable games coming up including a must not lose game at home to Hull where the team simply has to perform in front of the Carrow Rd faithful.

The squad is due for a bit of an overhaul in the summer but in the meantime Wagner has to be a bit more creative and brave in some of his selections.

 

[Ulfotto 623]

The issues Smith was dealing with haven’t gone away. The only thing that has changed is that the baggage Smith brought from last season disaster is gone. Smith and Shakespeare are often painted on this forum as football buffoons. Given their records in the game they are not daft they know top level football. 

We still lack a defensive midfield player. We only have one natural wide player. Sargent is wasted on the wing. We have lots of player whose potential far exceeds there current output.

[yellowrider120 761]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

We learnt nothing new. Our team has a weak mentality - they look like Brazil when dominating but crumble at the first sign of real challenge. Then the midfield are easily overrun and the defence becomes atrocious. 
 

Bottom line is that the club couldn’t afford to fund either promotion recently. This meant a very average champs team  with a couple of stars (puki & Emi) over achieved. We then cashed in on the creative star and the other one has aged. And we are back to being a fairly average champs side. I think we merit 10th on performances so far. We are too skilful for bottom half but too powder puff for the promotion contenders - none of whom we have yet beaten 

Agreed - exactly what happened yesterday. 

[chicken 2,604]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

I think the likes of McLean, Hanley, Krul, Gibson and Onel are good enough to get results vs 18 or 19 other teams in this division. 

Yesterday reminded me a bit of the games v Watford under Farke when we went up last time, where we lost twice and they were able to exploit our weaknesses in the way most of the rest of the division couldn't.

I'll worry more in the short term if teams like Hull and Birmingham start taking advantage of it.

I think I looked this up before, Farke actually didn't do all that well against other top 6 sides in either promotion seasons. I seem to remember we lost more than we won. The championship has always been about consistency across the season which can be a bit of a slog at times. 

[chicken 2,604]

59 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I was not surprised by the defeat but our lack lustre start was a real eye opener bearing in mind we still had slender hopes of automatic promotion. It's was also on the back of the best part of a 2 week break which many on here thought would be the perfect opportunity to perfect Wagnerball further, and get fitter. Instead we saw the complete opposite, which was highly frustrating.

In theory some very winnable games coming up including a must not lose game at home to Hull where the team simply has to perform in front of the Carrow Rd faithful.

The squad is due for a bit of an overhaul in the summer but in the meantime Wagner has to be a bit more creative and brave in some of his selections.

 

It wasn't lack lustre... it was sloppy in three situations, and three topics as Farke would tell us. You simply cannot legislate for what Krul did... he played the ball straight to their player on the edge of our own box. Poor choice of pass, poorly executed and he gifted them an absolute howler of a goal.

That put the pressure even more on us as we had to get back into the game. The set pieces were just appalling. 10 defenders Vs 6 attackers... no way they should be getting goals from that, even with two on the line and a goalkeeper. That's still 7 Vs 6. Poor.

Otherwise I don't think they were lack lustre, they huffed and puffed by were stifled by a team that has been well drilled since last summer. Wagner has been here a month barely. Rome was not built in a day and all that.