Get rid or trust Webber to Rebuild the Team ?

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Do we Trust Webber to Rebuild the Team ? is the Question or get someone with fresh ideas ?

i would say that Webber was Fantastic at the start 

No money free signings / cheaper foreign players from lesser leagues with Farke

since those days it has been terrible recruitment not replacing like for like positions Emi and Skipp etc

Gibbs is the best by a mile and he was free the rest of the players that cost big money in our terms have mostly failed to deliver 

Webber with Money is not as good as a skint webber 

Webber has proved with little money and he has in the past pulled out some magic signings ,

So as things stand without the US money ( if it ever comes ) do we stick with Webber or New DOF with fresh Recruitment 

 

 

[Barham Blitz 652]

I'm not one of the Webber out brigade but it has just struck me that (Pukki and Emi aside) a lot of those players that we signed in the early days for a bag of footballs were from German football with the likes of Zimbo directly known by Farke before he joined.

I'd be interested to know how many of those has popped up through the Recruitment team stat crunching in a darkened room and how many were Farke and his team going 'what about that lad who can't run but takes a decent free kick at Darmstadt 98 ... ?'

The number of our former players who have bounced between the same four or five German teams is quite impressive - they must all have been known to Farke rather than sticking out on graph or spreadsheet.

Take them out and the successful acquisitions over the last few seasons ratio thins out even more.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 minutes ago, Barham Blitz said:

I'd be interested to know how many of those has popped up through the Recruitment team stat crunching in a darkened room and how many were Farke and his team going 'what about that lad who can't run but takes a decent free kick at Darmstadt 98 ... ?'

Moritz Leitner was also at Dortmund the same time as Farke.

And Tom Trybull came here on trial at the request of Farke who knew a lot about him.

So I mean, probably most of our initial Germans came here having been known to Farke or other members of his coaching team?

[Barham Blitz 652]

9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Moritz Leitner was also at Dortmund the same time as Farke.

And Tom Trybull came here on trial at the request of Farke who knew a lot about him.

So I mean, probably most of our initial Germans came here having been known to Farke or other members of his coaching team?

Zimbo was his captain at a previous club and there was a connection with Stiepermann as well but I forget what. Mario as well.

But yeah - that was my point.  Take Emi and Teemu out and the successes for our renowned scouting department and DoF start to look very thin indeed compared to the old school Coach / Manager's little black book !

Edited February 4, 2023 by Barham Blitz

[Helsinki canary 242]

He is clearly running out of credit on the recruitment front (or even in negative credit). That combined with a crippling salary cap means all the income has been pi..ed up the wall by the man who claimed the same of his predecessor 

[Google Bot 3,274]

1 hour ago, norfolkngood said:

Do we Trust Webber to Rebuild the Team ? is the Question or get someone with fresh ideas ?

Let's see what happens this remaining season first.  The someone with fresh ideas would be Neil Adams, unless the question is to drop them both?!

Tzolis, Rashica and Sarge our money signings last season - Sarge I think has shown his worth and certainly gets the love from fans, hopefully Tzolis gets some game-time so we can see what he offers.. Rashica? I think, should be playing in this league with us too.  

Gunn, another signing last season, ready to take over from Krul and I think most supporters back that.

Players like Sara and Nunez have come from our scouting network - would they have unearthed different players without Webber?  I don't know... Both likeable players though, Sara taking his time but starting to get into step... And Nunez looked better today, also.

We gotta give this team time to adapt to new coach and the players a fresh slate, I see absolutely no validity in making a decision on whether to throw Webber out the club because we lost a match to the run away league leaders.. Who just looked far more match fit and sky-high in confidence.   

The negativity that started to brew around Krul was a big part of our nervousness in that first half, and we need to stop allowing it to keep circling us.. And that's all these questions do.   Snap out of it. 🙂

Edited February 4, 2023 by Google Bot

[First Wazzock 902]

Get rid.

Bought nothing the first season we went up. Second time spent the biggest budget we've ever had, and one of the biggest in Europe at that time on players who were never going to keep us in the Premier League.

We might as well have kept Farke, think of all the money wasted getting rid of him, appointing Smith. And getting rid of him too.

If by some small miracle we manage to go up again this season, Wagner will have exactly the same problem. The squad is not good enough to stay up and we don't have enough money to buy what is required to stay up.

GET RID

[Well b back 3,201]

1 minute ago, First Wazzock said:

Get rid.

Bought nothing the first season we went up. Second time spent the biggest budget we've ever had, and one of the biggest in Europe at that time on players who were never going to keep us in the Premier League.

We might as well have kept Farke, think of all the money wasted getting rid of him, appointing Smith. And getting rid of him too.

If by some small miracle we manage to go up again this season, Wagner will have exactly the same problem. The squad is not good enough to stay up and we don't have enough money to buy what is required to stay up.

GET RID

Suspect if we get rid, we would be looking for a new manager to ?

[Google Bot 3,274]

3 minutes ago, First Wazzock said:

If by some small miracle we manage to go up again this season, Wagner will have exactly the same problem. The squad is not good enough to stay up and we don't have enough money to buy what is required to stay up.

We are historically a mid-table championship club, though.  Since Webber has came in we've walked the league twice, developed youth, developer facilities and had a great brand of football under Farke - He was directly responsible for all this.

I haven't a clue who else is out there when people talk of replacing him, but I can see from looking around at so many other clubs that have tried and failed and now find themselves in League One that one thing that Webber said about us being a Top 26 club - He's delivered.

Fact that we're now expecting to go up, and expecting to survive should be a testament to what he's brought here, not an indictment of failure.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,543]

2 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Do we Trust Webber to Rebuild the Team ? is the Question or get someone with fresh ideas ?

i would say that Webber was Fantastic at the start 

No money free signings / cheaper foreign players from lesser leagues with Farke

since those days it has been terrible recruitment not replacing like for like positions Emi and Skipp etc

Gibbs is the best by a mile and he was free the rest of the players that cost big money in our terms have mostly failed to deliver 

Webber with Money is not as good as a skint webber 

Webber has proved with little money and he has in the past pulled out some magic signings ,

So as things stand without the US money ( if it ever comes ) do we stick with Webber or New DOF with fresh Recruitment

Blimey. Two four-goal games, lose to the runaway leaders and we're back to sack everyone again.

Boring.

[kingsway 94]

Trouble now with Webber is that originally Norwich City was a stepping stone for moving onto bigger and better clubs with no hanging around getting stale, but now after two atrocious top flight campaigns that has gone out of the window so now hes happy to pick up his huge wage while getting stale. With his wife in a high position at the club this contentment to hang around is multiplied while forgetting about the burning ambition to move to fresh challenges at bigger clubs  he always banged on about a few years ago is.

 

He got lucky with Pukki who was signed as a back up to Jorden Rhodes and Buendia who produced the goods,  but most other signings since have not produced.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by kingsway

[Monty13 2,231]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

We are historically a mid-table championship club, though.  Since Webber has came in we've walked the league twice, developed youth, developer facilities and had a great brand of football under Farke - He was directly responsible for all this.

I haven't a clue who else is out there when people talk of replacing him, but I can see from looking around at so many other clubs that have tried and failed and now find themselves in League One that one thing that Webber said about us being a Top 26 club - He's delivered.

Fact that we're now expecting to go up, and expecting to survive should be a testament to what he's brought here, not an indictment of failure.

If we somehow managed to go up I’m not sure you could look at this team and argue it is stronger than that first promotion season.

Webber shook this club up when he arrived, brought in Farke, brought in some great players like Emi and Pukki, has delivered 2 promotions and titles and overseen great developments in infrastructure for the long term. None of that’s deniable to me.

It does feel like the last 18 months or so the wheels have come off the bus though. There’s been some really questionable use of the finances of those promotions and player sales, not to mention the Dean Smith era itself.

[Google Bot 3,274]

35 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

It does feel like the last 18 months or so the wheels have come off the bus though. There’s been some really questionable use of the finances of those promotions and player sales, not to mention the Dean Smith era itself.

Yes, no-one is disputing that.  But people are comparing high point Webber to low point Webber and then implying he's ****.   Which is dumb, you need to let everything play out to it's conclusion... We don't know if this is a dip, or what came before was elevated/lucky, or we're in a rebuilding process to greater things.

If we're to analyse the man then compare Webber to every thing else that has come before...  Because if you throw him from the ship because he's dipped based on his own standards, then we'll be floating rudderless waiting for a new hopeful to turn up that we know nothing about.

I think there's a strong argument to suggest that he's in the top percentage of SD who gets the club and has the right approach with the owners to be able to pull the strings needed and motivate people around him.   He could be a 1 in 10 guy he could be a 1 in 100... Or he could be 10 a penny...  Who knows, and who wants to take the risk to find out?

Now, this may change with Attanasio coming in, and the contacts and pull they may have... But until that point it seems stupid to not just concentrate on the team and what the head coach is doing for remainder of the season.  We can then review all this with some more facts based on that performance.   

Not sure raising the question after a 3-0 defeat, third game into a new coach appointment is really the moral boosting conversation us fans should be having.  We want to go up, then we need to stop moaning about everything and just remember how blessed we are to be expecting promotion this season.... And turn that back into supporting the team, who players, staff, managers have all said it means far more to them than we'll ever know.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Google Bot

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,748]

Not quite sure what the brexit rule means for signing from i.e the German market but if that route is now closed/smaller ,it negates a lit of Webber's previous successes and for that matter,Wagner's knowledge too.

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,044]

In my lifetime we have spent 17 years in the top flight, 20 in Champs/Div 1 and one in League One. That is not 'historically a midtable champ team'. Thats a team that bounce between the top two divisions.

Webber should stay, but be nowhere near recruitment. Part of great leadership is knowing where you're weak and delegating accordingly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Monty13 2,231]

6 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Yes, no-one is disputing that.  But people are comparing high point Webber to low point Webber and then implying he's ****.   Which is dumb, you need to let everything play out to it's conclusion... We don't know if this is a dip, or what came before was elevated/lucky, or we're in a rebuilding process to greater things.

If we're to analyse the man then compare Webber to every thing else that has come before...  Because if you throw him from the ship because he's dipped based on his own standards, then we'll be floating rudderless waiting for a new hopeful to turn up that we know nothing about.

I think there's a strong argument to suggest that he's in the top percentage of SD who gets the club and has the right approach with the owners to be able to pull the strings needed and motivate people around him.   He could be a 1 in 10 guy he could be a 1 in 100... Or he could be 10 a penny...  Who knows, and who wants to take the risk to find out?

Now, this may change with Attanasio coming in, and the contacts and pull they may have... But until that point it seems stupid to not just concentrate on the team and what the head coach is doing for remainder of the season.  We can then review all this with some more facts based on that performance.   

Not sure raising the question after a 3-0 defeat, third game into a new coach appointment is really the moral boosting conversation us fans should be having.  We want to go up, then we need to stop moaning about everything and just remember how blessed we are to be expecting promotion this season.... And turn that back into supporting the team, who players, staff, managers have all said it means far more to them than we'll ever know.

Not saying you are wrong but just to point out football managers are considered **** by the mob after far less time failing to achieve past highs.

It’s a forum, people are asking questions and others are answering, helpful or not it’s obviously on people’s minds.

I share your fears of what would come next if we throw the current leadership away, but the last 18 months have also been concerning and failure this year has the very real possibility of leaving us (bar the recent sporting achievements and infrastructure improvements) basically back where we started.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Monty13

[littleyellowbirdie 2,543]

43 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Not saying you are wrong but just to point out football managers are considered **** by the mob after far less time failing to achieve past highs.

It’s a forum, people are asking questions and others are answering, helpful or not it’s obviously on people’s minds.

I share your fears of what would come next if we throw the current leadership away, but the last 18 months have also been concerning and failure this year has the very real possibility of leaving us (bar the recent sporting achievements and infrastructure improvements) basically back where we started.

Yes, it's a forum, but the general pattern is, if fans are pleased with results then they generally focus on decisions to play which players, which players doing well etc.First bad result and it's back to who sack from the off-pitch choices.

Literally, this is recycling arguments that have been going on ad infinitum for years. Boring.

Why can't we have a sack the canteen staff debate instead? Are the squad being given Weetabix before a game or are they being allowed a sneaky chocolate eclair just before a game?

Edited February 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Real Buh 3,432]

Webber should be long gone

He’s a liability

[littleyellowbirdie 2,543]

55 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

In my lifetime we have spent 17 years in the top flight, 20 in Champs/Div 1 and one in League One. That is not 'historically a midtable champ team'. Thats a team that bounce between the top two divisions.

Webber should stay, but be nowhere near recruitment. Part of great leadership is knowing where you're weak and delegating accordingly. 

 

 

It is delegated. We have a whole scouting team focussing on players working to scientifically developed statistical models in conjunction with the views of the coaching staff. Webber's main role will then be negotiating for their services in competition with other clubs, many of them with more in the way of transfer fees and salaries to throw at them.

We have no information on who we target, how far up the list the players we actually get against the players we actually want are. On the other hand, the board do, which is why Attanasio stepping in is clearly an indication that the consensus in the board, who have access to far more detail than us,  is that money is our limit, not Webber.

[Newtopia 517]

Personally it is not a choice, Webber is DoF and it is such a binary decision, whether the owners have bought into his vision or not single games or even single seasons should not affect him.  Personally I think you stick, I felt differently when he said he would give 90% of himself, that was an odd thing for the owners to accept.  Currently he seems in.

[hogesar 9,657]

It would be daft not to wait until the end of the season with these sort of posts because it was only a week or so ago that Sara was the real deal, Sargent was on fire, Dowell a footballing genius and McCallum the left back of the future.

[Ken Hairy 3,771]

Depends what happens with Attanasio in the coming weeks and months. I suspect if or when the full takeover happens we may see a natural parting of ways with Webber anyway.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,543]

5 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Depends what happens with Attanasio in the coming weeks and months. I suspect if or when the full takeover happens we may see a natural parting of ways with Webber anyway.

What's your basis for that suspicion?

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

If we fail to hit our top 26 target he should go.. it's a result driven business

[The Bristol Nest 513]

The kick that led to the goal was Webbers' fault. 

The two corners were first Delia, and then, Michaels' fault.

It's a simple game.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

27 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Depends what happens with Attanasio in the coming weeks and months. I suspect if or when the full takeover happens we may see a natural parting of ways with Webber anyway.

I would more suspect there will be a shake-up in the boardroom and in some of the non-football areas, such as commercial, rather than Webber's job being in danger.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,543]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

I would more suspect there will be a shake-up in the boardroom and in some of the non-football areas, such as commercial, rather than Webber's job being in danger.

The Attanasios are coming in with no background in football. They could have bought into any club, but chose this one, in spite of the caution of the existing owners in transferring control when they could have got a faster deal elsewhere. That says to me they're starting from a position of confidence in what's already in place.

I think they'll first follow an evolution of the existing approach but offering more money to targets to try and land the best ones. If that doesn't work, then they'll start looking at the other factors in proving the success of our recruitment.

[kenfoggo 247]

I am not for sacking everyone, but a football squad is always a fluid entity with plenty of coming and going, some players can be retained, for the best of reasons, but become a liability or just stop performing at their previous level. This is a natural process and when acknowledged these players need to be moved on, it is essential. McLean, Krul and Hanley are the three most glaring examples and need to be moved along to allow a fresher , younger, more talented player with something to prove to be brought in. If Webber cannot acknowledge this or is slow or reluctant to do the painful task , then yes he may also have outlived his usefulness to the Club.

Edited February 5, 2023 by kenfoggo

[Capt. Pants 4,226]

8 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Not quite sure what the brexit rule means for signing from i.e the German market but if that route is now closed/smaller ,it negates a lit of Webber's previous successes and for that matter,Wagner's knowledge too.

 

That didn't seem to stop Burnley getting a few Belgians in. 

What is clear that we need more investment in the playing side so Webber can get back to the markets we're more comfortable with.

We were demolished yesterday by a team who have been playing and developing their new style all season vs just 3 league games for Wagner.

Yesterday was chastening and a good time for everyone to get a kick up the backside.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Capt. Pants

[essex canary 495]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It is delegated. We have a whole scouting team focussing on players working to scientifically developed statistical models in conjunction with the views of the coaching staff. Webber's main role will then be negotiating for their services in competition with other clubs, many of them with more in the way of transfer fees and salaries to throw at them.

We have no information on who we target, how far up the list the players we actually get against the players we actually want are. On the other hand, the board do, which is why Attanasio stepping in is clearly an indication that the consensus in the board, who have access to far more detail than us,  is that money is our limit, not Webber.

Money would be the limit especially when the cost of all this delegation is added up.