McLean & Krul liability waiting to happen

[Rhino1 292]

I’ve said once, I have said it 100 times there is a major mistake in both McLean and Krul every single game, set us on the back foot immediately today through utter stupidity - McLean followed it up several times through a mixture of good stuff and utter crap. Too inconsistent, always have been, always will be, overated, cocky and should be within a mile of the team!!! Outclassed today!! 

[canarydan23 4,060]

McLean looks like he'll only work as a CDM when we're in control or against teams we're much better than. He was dreadful today. I did wonder if I'm a bit harsh on him and in a minority given the staunch defenders he has on here, but the unanimous, audible laughter that greeted his announcement as MOTM suggests not.

Was hogesar the match sponsor?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

McLean looks like he'll only work as a CDM when we're in control or against teams we're much better than. He was dreadful today. I did wonder if I'm a bit harsh on him and in a minority given the staunch defenders he has on here, but the unanimous, audible laughter that greeted his announcement as MOTM suggests not.

Was hogesar the match sponsor?

We needed a CDM in Jan just as much as we did in the summer. If Hayden is crocked I cant believe we didnt get one.

[TheGoogler 324]

McLean is a player playing in a position that he's just been asked to adopt. I can forgive him a mistake, he has mitigation to help explain, but I would expect someone to come in to play that position who is a more defensive minded midfielder.

I maintain Hanley is a player who is supremely good (Premier League level) in certain ways and so lacking in others. I agree he has a mistake in him too. It maybe time to let him move on, and find a defender more capable of playing out from the back. 

I still think Gunn is the better choice in this team than Krul. It baffles me why Krul has come in. I wonder if Gunn weren't injured whether he would have got the nod given the consistent mistakes shown by Krul. 

[rock bus 850]

Gunn not an option today but does seem he should come back in.

Mclean is ‘ok’ as CDM agains weaker teams when we press but can’t be relied upon or handle any semi decent opposition midfield. How long can we go without getting a decent CDM? Surely Webber can find someone somewhere ?

in the interim I think we should just try Gibbs the chance, let’s play him for rest of season

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by rock bus

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

We needed a CDM in Jan just as much as we did in the summer. If Hayden is crocked I cant believe we didnt get one.

Yep, pretty shambolic not getting one, to be honest. Unless Gibbs can do the job, we've no hope of winning the playoffs with Kenny as a CDM, might even struggle to get into them.

[Ulfotto 623]

I thought Kenny was one of our best players today like he has been all season.

[kick it off 1,948]

Lungi might be better suited to that role than Gibbs to be fair.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

20 minutes ago, Rhino1 said:

I’ve said once, I have said it 100 times there is a major mistake in both McLean and Krul every single game,

Same with Giannoulis, he's a liability as well.

When he has a good game he's practically guaranteed to be shocking in the next one, he needs the boot as well.

[kick it off 1,948]

Giannoulis can just **** off at this point. Not good enough. Total liability. Offers very little going forward. Get rid in the summer.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

6 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Yep, pretty shambolic not getting one, to be honest. Unless Gibbs can do the job, we've no hope of winning the playoffs with Kenny as a CDM, might even struggle to get into them.

..and yet some will have us believe he's been a cross between Makelele/Pirlo thiese past few weeks...

[All the Germans 1,075]

13 minutes ago, TheGoogler said:

I maintain Hanley is a player who is supremely good (Premier League level) in certain ways and so lacking in others. I agree he has a mistake in him too. It maybe time to let him move on, and find a defender more capable of playing out from the back. 

The only thing Hanley is very good at is winning headers in the box and heading it away from goal (unfortunately the same applies in the oppositions box!). The only player I've ever seen him consistently lose to in the air is Andy Carrol the other week (Hanley was terrified of him). I agree that we should move him on and have a ball playing central defender instead.

[hogesar 9,618]

Kenny rescued us on several occasions today, was by no means his best game but Sara was the midfielder repeatedly giving the ball away.

[Grick 7]

The way our defence play with short passes, looking back / sideways rather than forward and always inviting pressure you almost provide the opposition with an extra attacker. After 6 minutes today we lost 2 key facets of a good team: confidence & pace and we never looked like a top half, let alone top 6 team.

[Michael Starr 519]

You could feel the tension every time the ball was played around our backline, it surely rubs off on the players and contributes to some of those unforced errors

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

If you haven't got the players to pass the ball around at the back then don't do it, it's as simple as that. The other issue was that Sargent was totally **** and didn't show or compete for a long ball, so that gave us no alternative.

There were people falling around laughing as McLean was announced MOTM but nobody else was any better. Sara does my head in; brilliant 2nd half against Coventry, but today felt like his first game again.

[yellowrider120 761]

17 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

If you haven't got the players to pass the ball around at the back then don't do it, it's as simple as that. The other issue was that Sargent was totally **** and didn't show or compete for a long ball, so that gave us no alternative.

There were people falling around laughing as McLean was announced MOTM but nobody else was any better. Sara does my head in; brilliant 2nd half against Coventry, but today felt like his first game again.

Agreed but the MOTM award could have been worse. They could have given it to Krul!!

[Mason 47 1,373]

Funny how perspectives differ. I thought he was probably our most effective midfielder and nipped in regularly with key challenges. Sara and Dowell were pressed out of the game, Hernandez huffed and puffed.

All in all, Burnley were high on confidence and well drilled. We made an early mistake and players slipped back into Smithball; but our season will not now be defined by getting ducked by Burnley.

[Hairy Canary 668]

I thought McLean had a decent enough game. Was more involved than Sara and certainly doesn’t deserve to have his performance bracketed with Krul’s

[East Rider 548]

It's easy to scape goat McLean, but he was man of the match for a reason and deservedly so despite making a couple of errors. Always showing for the ball and looking to make a forward pass, numerous interceptions and encouraging to others throughout.

Having said that, very few of our team covered them selves in glory, albeit against an effective and well drilled team

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

7 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

I thought Kenny was one of our best players today like he has been all season.

Nooo - you don’t get it, he’s scapegoat no1: the rules are that he can never be said to have had more than the odd decent game.  The fact is he played ok, there were many others who had far worse games.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

Despite the odd suicidal square pass in his own third, Kenny has performed way above expectation as a DM. He performed way above expectation in his brief stint at LB. He will never be Premier League quality, but the stick he gets on here is ridiculous.

I agree we need to make a specialist, dyed-in-the-wool DM a priority in the summer, but Kenny has been an excellent servant for us over several years, and considering we paid what, £400k for him, has been an absolute snip. Loyal and dedicated pro, a really positive character in the dressing room, and even stayed up all night on the Mad Dog 20/20 before stealing the mayor's hat.

Sure he has his limitations, but a lot of people seem to use that as an excuse to blind themselves to his strengths.

[Robert N. LiM 4,242]

26 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Despite the odd suicidal square pass in his own third, Kenny has performed way above expectation as a DM. He performed way above expectation in his brief stint at LB. He will never be Premier League quality, but the stick he gets on here is ridiculous.

I agree we need to make a specialist, dyed-in-the-wool DM a priority in the summer, but Kenny has been an excellent servant for us over several years, and considering we paid what, £400k for him, has been an absolute snip. Loyal and dedicated pro, a really positive character in the dressing room, and even stayed up all night on the Mad Dog 20/20 before stealing the mayor's hat.

Sure he has his limitations, but a lot of people seem to use that as an excuse to blind themselves to his strengths.

Is the correct answer

[East Rider 548]

15 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Despite the odd suicidal square pass in his own third, Kenny has performed way above expectation as a DM. He performed way above expectation in his brief stint at LB. He will never be Premier League quality, but the stick he gets on here is ridiculous.

I agree we need to make a specialist, dyed-in-the-wool DM a priority in the summer, but Kenny has been an excellent servant for us over several years, and considering we paid what, £400k for him, has been an absolute snip. Loyal and dedicated pro, a really positive character in the dressing room, and even stayed up all night on the Mad Dog 20/20 before stealing the mayor's hat.

Sure he has his limitations, but a lot of people seem to use that as an excuse to blind themselves to his strengths.

 

100% Spot on.

Every single manager he has played under here has used him regularly in the team, in various positions. Every single one. 

It is clear he is a good character on and off the pitch and a leader yet there are people who despite good/decent games still follow the easy line and criticise his performances without offering balance. Yet at the same time we can have some of our more considered 'flamboyant' players making absolute howlers, and the gang strangely fail to spot those incidents or moan about them later.

Was he worthy of MoM yesterday? Yes he was and I suspect he will be in the staring line up next match. 

 

 

 

 

[kenfoggo 247]

Unfortunately Wagner has inherited some legacy players who should have been moved on by the previous incumbent . Now they think they are the backbone of the squad and cannot be dropped. Tim Krul has obviously outlived his usefulness and is a liability. McLean has shown that he cannot compete now at this level . Hanley is not and never has been a leader of men and his first instinct is always to slow the game by passing square or backwards thinking that if he has made a successful pass to a teammate his stats will look good. Yesterdays effort was just more of the same left over from the Smith reign, no penetration, few ideas, pedestrian movement of the ball mixed in with a touch of complete incompetence. Not good enough to compete.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Funny how people see things differently… Hanley and Kenny are about the only 2 that I’d keep that probs want to stick around next season tbh.

Just watching the Villa vs Leicester game highlights where 2 of the star performers are Maddison and Buendia. That’s what we lack, that X factor to change a game. Sure when we play against a small side we can overwhelm them by having better players 1-11 but when things aren’t clicking or if we go against the likes of Sheff Utd or Burnley, there’s nothing there for them to be that scared of.

None of the new lads brought in or promoted to replace Emi have stepped up to the mark, even at this level. Less said about Cantwell the better… Sara, Nunez, Dowell, Idah, Tzolis quickly following the same trajectory unless they pull their fingers out and play to their potential. Harsh maybe but it’s a high stakes game.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Tetteys Jig

[Indy 3,283]

Unfortunately yesterday showed McLean hasn’t got the game for that position when a decent high tempo press is applied. We sat far too deep and Sara, Dowell & Hernandez never gave him an outlet, he either had to pass backwards quickly or try a 40 yard pass.

As FTW said it’s not McLean but the squad has never found an answer to Tettey!

Burnley have formed a very good team, their recruiting deserves credit and they do for getting a good manager in, had we had Wagner from May last year we’d be in a far better position.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Unfortunately yesterday showed McLean hasn’t got the game for that position when a decent high tempo press is applied. We sat far too deep and Sara, Dowell & Hernandez never gave him an outlet, he either had to pass backwards quickly or try a 40 yard pass.

As FTW said it’s not McLean but the squad has never found an answer to Tettey!

Burnley have formed a very good team, their recruiting deserves credit and they do for getting a good manager in, had we had Wagner from May last year we’d be in a far better position.

Unfortunately McLean dropping a bit deeper vs ordinary teams like prrston and coventry and finding a bit of space to pass a ball perhaps clouded the fact that a defensive mid was still no.1 priority . We had to get one in Jan if we had a chance of not only getting in the playoffs but somehow then overcoming 2 teams to win them.

As it has now been shown, pointing and clapping doesnt stop better opposition running through our midfield.

[Yellow Wal 314]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Unfortunately McLean dropping a bit deeper vs ordinary teams like prrston and coventry and finding a bit of space to pass a ball perhaps clouded the fact that a defensive mid was still no.1 priority . We had to get one in Jan if we had a chance of not only getting in the playoffs but somehow then overcoming 2 teams to win them.

As it has now been shown, pointing and clapping doesnt stop better opposition running through our midfield.

And if we had had another defensive midfielder in the place of McLean yesterday would he have had more players to pass to.

We had too many players hiding yesterday, and that is never something that can be said of Kenny.

[hogesar 9,618]

Fans on here don't think McLean is good enough for the championship despite 3 managers with Championship promotions regularly picking him and 2 titles to his name whilst those same fans jeer us passing it around the back trying to make an opening - then when we do go long jeer again because it's come straight back at us.

Essentially there's just a lot of pretty thick fans.