Don’t think we’re far off having a really good team

[rock bus 851]

I know this may not be well received after todays game but I honestly don’t think we are far off a having a good team who could be exciting to watch.

we need changes in the old guard, ie the likes of Hanley and Krul.

BUT if we can get players like Sara, Nunez, Sargent and Tzolis clicking and playing well together as a joined up unit it could be special. 
I honestly think Wagner can deliver that, just look at the improvement in players like Aarons and Dowell since he arrived.

Too late for this season but a couple of key signings and next could be very different.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

I think today showed that we are some way off having a good team. 

This team less Pukki scares me.

Parma

[Petriix 2,834]

To be fair, today's score should have been 0-0. We're not a million miles away and it's generally far more coherent than under the previous management. People love to have a good old moan, but I can see the positives. 

Burnley are a good side, full of confidence and in the zone. It's unfortunate timing to have a two week break then play them but this doesn't define our season. We need to put this quickly behind us and carry on the progress.

[AJ 1,218]

Just now, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I think today showed that we are some way off having a good team. 

This team less Pukki scares me.

Parma

Pukki aside, the lack of genuine goalscoring threat has been severely apparent since our last promotion. Since losing Buendia to lay chances on a plate on a regular basis we are as blunt up top as they come

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

31 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I know this may not be well received after todays game but I honestly don’t think we are far off a having a good team who could be exciting to watch.

we need changes in the old guard, ie the likes of Hanley and Krul.

BUT if we can get players like Sara, Nunez, Sargent and Tzolis clicking and playing well together as a joined up unit it could be special. 
I honestly think Wagner can deliver that, just look at the improvement in players like Aarons and Dowell since he arrived.

Too late for this season but a couple of key signings and next could be very different.

Yep this is how I see it. Burnley the better side today but then they are best in the division. If Krul can stop passing to attackers which I never remember being a problem for him in the past that will make a big difference .

[hogesar 9,657]

Burnley of course are way ahead of us, but they've been playing well all season and have the confidence to go with it. The goals we conceded were criminal, but not down to poor team structure etc.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

We're just a new left back, new centre back, new defensive midfielder, new box-to-box midfielder, new playmaker, two new wingers and a summer Pukki replacement away from being a good team. That's if we don't lose Aarons, because then we'll need a right back too.

So only 9 players away from having a really good 11! 

Triggers broom springs to mind. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[shefcanary 2,393]

Rthey Didn't do much. Pressed our lacklustre central back 4 (Krul, Hanley, Omo, McLean) and knocked our defensive platform from whixh to build our attacks. Without Krul who knows. He never had to make a real save but still let in 3. He and Hanley cannot organise a **** up in a brewery. And Krul supposedly ahead of Gunn on that basis? I'm sure if we had weathered Burnley's storm we would have had more confidence in attack.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

There are some real dreamers on here! Good team? Really? Some supporters are more of a joke than the players 🤣🤣

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Burnley of course are way ahead of us, but they've been playing well all season and have the confidence to go with it. The goals we conceded were criminal, but not down to poor team structure etc.

Of course the official word will be ‘(Krul) mistake…set piece goals preventable..’..

I would suggest that that conversations Wagner will be having with Webber et al will be less mis-directional than that. 

The Championship is multi-tier. We are well in danger of sliding out of the top tier of the second tier. And I like Wagner and think he fits us well. A lot of the players we have are too far short of the level required, too full of compromises and entirely lacking in weaponry. 

It’s a very dangerous long-term cocktail of ‘quite good’.

Parma 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[All the Germans 1,075]

10 minutes ago, Petriix said:

To be fair, today's score should have been 0-0.

Whilst I agree we gave them the first and the two set-pieces could and should have been stopped, my issue is that Burnley visibly decided to step back once they had it sewn up. If it was 0-0 on 60 minutes, we would have seen a very different final 30 and I expect they would have scored a few. They didn't, as they simply didn't need to.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Burnley of course are way ahead of us, but they've been playing well all season and have the confidence to go with it. The goals we conceded were criminal, but not down to poor team structure etc.

So defending corners properly is nothing to do with team structure? You really are deluded sometimes with the carp you come out with 🤣🤣🤣

[hogesar 9,657]

1 minute ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

So defending corners properly is nothing to do with team structure? You really are deluded sometimes with the carp you come out with 🤣🤣🤣

It's completely irrelevant in terms of our formation and playing style I.e how Wagner sets us up vs Smith which is the point I was making. Can't say I'm even vaguely surprised you of all people have been unable to grasp that.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

Just now, hogesar said:

It's completely irrelevant in terms of our formation and playing style I.e how Wagner sets us up vs Smith which is the point I was making. Can't say I'm even vaguely surprised you of all people have been unable to grasp that.

Because defending corners properly is not a major thing in your world is it 🤣🤣

[mr footy 36]

Simple answer, no

[Worthy Nigelton 1,043]

Today wasn't that bad. Just unforgiveable defensive errors not poor general play. We're not far off - I'm still confident.

 

 

 

 

 

[hogesar 9,657]

11 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Because defending corners properly is not a major thing in your world is it 🤣🤣

It's got nothing to do with my point which is why it's weird you're choosing this hill to die on. Carry on though, it's painful but has a level of humour.

[unique 435]

Idah has just been given a massive contract and Pukki will likely leave at the end of the season.

That, in a nutshell, tells you the direction this club is going.

[Branston Pickle 3,654]

34 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Today wasn't that bad. Just unforgiveable defensive errors not poor general play. We're not far off - I'm still confident.

 

 

 

 

 

Tbh there wasn’t that much of a discernible difference between what we did today and what we at home did under Smith…including the defensive errors and not-very-cohesive attacking play - all of which is a bit of a problem.

One thing that’s absolutely certain is that we need to improve our home form, and fast. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Tbh there wasn’t that much of a discernible difference between what we did today and what we at home did under Smith…including the defensive errors and not-very-cohesive attacking play - all of which is a bit of a problem.

One thing that’s absolutely certain is that we need to improve our home form, and fast. 

Quite right, we’ve lost more matches at home than we’ve won now? 

[Michael Starr 519]

Burnley were impressive, but Norwich gave the goals away, so technically it was Norwich 0 Norwich 3

[overthebordercanary 141]

And how are we going to afford all these new signings, the old crone has no money.

[lake district canary 4,531]

21 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

The Championship is multi-tier. We are well in danger of sliding out of the top tier of the second tier. And I like Wagner and think ke fits us well. A lot of the players we have are too far short of the level required, too full of compromises and entirely lacking in weaponry. 

It’s a very dangerous long-term cocktail of ‘quite good’.

Parma 

Isn't "quite good" what we had under Farke? Aren't a lot of the players still here the same as he had - and he was able to get a tune out of them at this level.... 

People will no doubt point out "ah, but we had Buendia"  then, but we were not a one man team.  People will then say "ah, but we had Skipp" but take Skipp and Buendia out of that team and we still had a method and style that was clear and that worked. Quite good players like Stiepermann were key under Farke too, so "quite good" can be effective - if marshalled right.

What is clear to me is that we massively over achieved under Farke and are still seeing the fall out from his pointless sacking and then not having anyone even fit to tie his shoelaces as a replacement.  Wagner is a step in the right direction, but the damage was done when Webber dumped the best fit head coach we were ever likely to get - and that includes Wagner, although he may be able to repair some of the damage and get us pointing in the right direction. 

 

[daly 501]

The defence is a disaster waiting to happen, Hanley is a poor version of Dunc who also would not have been happy trying to play out of the back

 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Isn't "quite good" what we had under Farke? Aren't a lot of the players still here the same as he had - and he was able to get a tune out of them at this level.... 

People will no doubt point out "ah, but we had Buendia"  then, but we were not a one man team.  People will then say "ah, but we had Skipp" but take Skipp and Buendia out of that team and we still had a method and style that was clear and that worked. Quite good players like Stiepermann were key under Farke too, so "quite good" can be effective - if marshalled right.

What is clear to me is that we massively over achieved under Farke and are still seeing the fall out from his pointless sacking and then not having anyone even fit to tie his shoelaces as a replacement.  Wagner is a step in the right direction, but the damage was done when Webber dumped the best fit head coach we were ever likely to get - and that includes Wagner, although he may be able to repair some of the damage and get us pointing in the right direction. 

 

Or weapons and key structural players - like say Buendia and Skipp as you mentioned - make a massive difference when allied to a natural goal scorer. 

When the Farke team missed Buendia, it had a very moderate record. 

When Skipp was not replaced tactically and technically, it deteriorated further.

When Pukki is no longer here, I am afraid we will totally lack weapons.

So no.

Parma 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

2 hours ago, rock bus said:

I know this may not be well received after todays game but I honestly don’t think we are far off a having a good team who could be exciting to watch.

we need changes in the old guard, ie the likes of Hanley and Krul.

BUT if we can get players like Sara, Nunez, Sargent and Tzolis clicking and playing well together as a joined up unit it could be special. 
I honestly think Wagner can deliver that, just look at the improvement in players like Aarons and Dowell since he arrived.

Too late for this season but a couple of key signings and next could be very different.

Eye test side, it does seem that actually what we've had in terms of results broadly reflects the team's ability.

That then leads on to the usual complaints about recruitment choices, but the reality is that we've had our hands tied behind our backs financially competing for players services; it could well be we've identified better players that we just couldn't land for other teams offering more.

The Attanasio arrival offers the prospect of being more competitive for players' services in future.

To summarise, we've seen today that Burnley do actually deserve to be above us, I don't think we have any financial concerns, we have a manager that had demonstrated he can deliver the entertaining style demanded, and play offs can still be achieved, so we might as well relax and enjoy each game as it comes.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,271]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Isn't "quite good" what we had under Farke? Aren't a lot of the players still here the same as he had - and he was able to get a tune out of them at this level.... 

People will no doubt point out "ah, but we had Buendia"  then, but we were not a one man team.  People will then say "ah, but we had Skipp" but take Skipp and Buendia out of that team and we still had a method and style that was clear and that worked. Quite good players like Stiepermann were key under Farke too, so "quite good" can be effective - if marshalled right.

What is clear to me is that we massively over achieved under Farke and are still seeing the fall out from his pointless sacking and then not having anyone even fit to tie his shoelaces as a replacement.  Wagner is a step in the right direction, but the damage was done when Webber dumped the best fit head coach we were ever likely to get - and that includes Wagner, although he may be able to repair some of the damage and get us pointing in the right direction. 

 

Did we?!

When Buendia got suspended in our last champs campaign.. I think we went to Millwall and clung on to a draw… the previous Champs campaign Buendia destroyed QPR, got suspended, and we scraped to a draw against Wigan.  

We never had a plan or method to win Games without Buendia. 

Another underrated weapon, was Vrancic. Even from the bench, he could change the tide of a game. 

As Parma says, we have no weapons anymore. Which is why we struggle against the top sides in this division, and will continue to.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[canarybubbles 1,915]

A question for Parma, who knows far more about tactics and stuff than I ever will.

Almost everyone plays out from the back nowadays. But we don't seem to have either the goalkeeper or the defenders/DM to play this way confidently. Would we therefore be better just to hoof it up to Sargent and/or Idah, accepting that the ball would come back pretty quickly in most cases but at least we're not throwing away stupid goals and creating a ripple of fear around the ground every time the ball gets to Krul's feet?

[Samwam27 527]

I think (& hope) we could make a couple of changes in summer and it could really strengthen us.

GK-Krul was a shrewd freebie, and has been great for us, but seems mistake ridden. Time to let Gunn become No.1 and move Krul on. We have enough young keeprers coming through to play backup.

Hanley has been a good servant, but again is mistake ridden. He's been the backbone of at least 5 seasons now where we've leaked goals for fun. Ideally find an up and coming defender from lower leagues or abroad to provide more solid stability, and ability to play from the back.

CDM- No point discussing, as we've needed one for so long now. Gibbs looks really promising, but perhaps we can unearth an industrious, combatitive CDM from South America in summer. Hopefully Hayden won't be pursued.

Striker-Slightly contentious, but if Pukki goes, it might really suit us. For last two seasons we've persisted with Pukki, without a playing a style that suits him. I honestly think Sarg as lone striker offers more than Pukki (he's pacy, strong, got a good shot and good in the air) and that gives us much more versatility than trying to play to Pukki's strengths. With wingers we don;t really have a target man in Pukki to aim for, but do with Sarg (maybe Idah, but he's still yet to prove himself). PS Pukki has been superb, but perhaps rime to move on at end of the season, or play him as backup???  

Who knows if Aarons will stay, and not convinced Gian is good enough (prefer McCallum) and we really need someone to gazump Mclean, who continues to be our better midfielders, which shows how we are failing abysmally to improve that area for numerous seasons. Sara & Nunez are improving under Wagner and adjusting, which is good, and maybe Dowell and for that Tzolis will also improve and stay. Rash has to be sold. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Samwam27
Mistake

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

As others have said, 0-3 is not really reflective of Burnley creating great chances but of a glaring error and two poorly defended set pieces. Don’t get me wrong, Burnley were a good way above us in terms of composure and on the ball they just looked a bit above, but Gudmundson is an experienced man to have at this level and it showed today. Their left back looks very good too. We did have a chunk of decent play in the last 15 of the first half where I think we should really have equalised, but Burnley tightened up immediately in the second half and took their two set pieces to kill the game. The referee had an appalling game but then I’m just expecting that now. My earlier auto promo optimism is probably off the table but I still think we will get top 6 without much trouble. 
They looked like a side playing to a level that will compete in the EPL. Kompany knows what that looks like and I think he is doing an outstanding job after such a short time relatively. 
Positives for me in the form of Nunez looking interested when on, Sara wasn’t poor but was outcompeted by a better midfield, not much else. 
Onward OTBC

Edited February 4, 2023 by SwearyCanary