Tzolis returning to Norwich

[Mengo 822]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I agree, and Wagner has done enough so far to earn the right to make his call on the player, and the player deserves to come in and us fans not judge him on previous (even me).

BUT...

Farke ended up dropping him. Smith tried to play him and quickly ended up dropping him. Twente are now happy to cut the loan spell short half way through it. These aren't exactly positive signs. When I then take those facts backed up with what I saw with my own eyes it really doesn't look good for me.

Although, some players and some managers just click. And for the money we've spent on him it'd be really good news if this was one of those situations.

Life is like an ashtray Hoggy  ,  full of little doubts. Wagners the man  , trust in him . He's got it sussed  , if it goes bad he will be the first to admit it. I feel lots of integrity  with this guy . Gut feeling   and my guts are OK today after a night on the batter 🍺.  MENGO got beat 4-3 in the super copa final. That dinky little brazilian serie A . 😍 🙃

[Google Bot 3,263]

21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Farke ended up dropping him. Smith tried to play him and quickly ended up dropping him.

Different manager and a lower league.  He was 19 when he came to us, in a squad getting it's **** handed to itself each week, got burnt for taking that pen and he barely got a look in after that.

I expect most would've been happy for Dowell to walk out of this club in January before Wagner came in.  It's a clean slate, and we need to learn to drop the luggage and any pre-conceived opinions of players.  From start of last season it's just been a **** show, and moral been down.

This is the first time i've felt a genuine uplift for a while, and potentially that's a great base to bring in someone with a point to prove.  One thing we can be sure of is Farke's judgement on a player, and he singled out Tzolis as having genuine talent - maybe the mind wasn't in the right place back then.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Google Bot

[Mengo 822]

5 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Different manager and a lower league.  He was 19 when he came to us, in a squad getting it's **** handed to itself each week, got burnt for taking that pen and he barely got a look in after that.

I expect most would've been happy for Dowell to walk out of this club in January before Wagner came in.  It's a clean slate, and we need to learn to drop the luggage and any pre-conceived opinions of players.  From start of last season it's just been a **** show, and moral been down.

This is the first time i've felt a genuine uplift for a while, and potentially that's a great base to bring in someone with a point to prove.

Well said GB. 👏 top post. Wagner will sort it all out. Trust me it's a gut feeling and I like the German/ American and Thailand 🇹🇭 link in his blood. 3-1 Saturday Norwich. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mengo

[repman 635]

I largely view the rest of this season as a free hit of sorts. Too far off the top 2 so play-offs is the best we can hope for and I wouldn't view it as a failure if we don't win them. 

To that end it's probably best to start looking towards next season as if we will be in the championship rather than the PL. It's as good a time as any to give Tzolis (and possibly Rowe if he's back fit) the chance to stake a claim for next year, how they do will probably help make up our minds on whether to hand Onel a new deal.

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,970]

For £9m you’d think there’s a player there. The atmosphere around the club has changed dramatically within a few weeks, perhaps he’ll thrive off it. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I agree, and Wagner has done enough so far to earn the right to make his call on the player, and the player deserves to come in and us fans not judge him on previous (even me).

BUT...

Farke ended up dropping him. Smith tried to play him and quickly ended up dropping him. Twente are now happy to cut the loan spell short half way through it. These aren't exactly positive signs. When I then take those facts backed up with what I saw with my own eyes it really doesn't look good for me.

Although, some players and some managers just click. And for the money we've spent on him it'd be really good news if this was one of those situations.

I understand your reservations, but I think he deserves a chance. He screwed up big time with the penalty incident after a stunning performance against Bournemouth B, but was never really given a fair shot at things by Smith.

One thing I do feel fairly certain about: if Tzolis pisses about, Wagner will have no patience. I sense ruthlessness under that friendly exterior. If Tzolis has any sense, he will realise that this is make or break for him in terms of the kind of career many were imagining for him. IMO, he has the talent, but I'm worried about the attitude and the mentality. Let's see.

[CDMullins 436]

Feels like a new signing on the thought of Tzolis on one wing and Marquinhos on the other is mouthwatering 

[chicken 2,624]

2 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Feels like a new signing on the thought of Tzolis on one wing and Marquinhos on the other is mouthwatering 

With Rowe and Hernandez ready to test tired legs... 

[Chichcan 148]

I still think Rowe should be ahead of Tzolis and Marquinhos (if he comes). 

Rowe looked half decent for spells in the Prem. before his injury

[canarybubbles 1,915]

3 minutes ago, Chichcan said:

I still think Rowe should be ahead of Tzolis and Marquinhos (if he comes). 

Rowe looked half decent for spells in the Prem. before his injury

I tend to think it should be a clean slate for everyone. Hard to judge anyone in the disaster that was Smith.

[Mengo 822]

41 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I understand your reservations, but I think he deserves a chance. He screwed up big time with the penalty incident after a stunning performance against Bournemouth B, but was never really given a fair shot at things by Smith.

One thing I do feel fairly certain about: if Tzolis pisses about, Wagner will have no patience. I sense ruthlessness under that friendly exterior. If Tzolis has any sense, he will realise that this is make or break for him in terms of the kind of career many were imagining for him. IMO, he has the talent, but I'm worried about the attitude and the mentality. Let's see.

One thing I do feel fairly certain about: if Tzolis pisses about, Wagner will have no patience. I sense ruthlessness under that friendly exterior. If Tzolis has any sense, he will realise that this is make or break for him in terms of the kind of career many were imagining for him. IMO, he has the talent, but I'm worried about the attitude and the mentality. Let's see.

Yep  . I don't think there is any ifs or buts either  with Wagner and that's great. Everybody will have an even playing field and it's their call if they want to utilise that.

Norwich  City feels good just now👍. Thanks for popping by D. WAGNER.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mengo

[hogesar 9,657]

35 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I understand your reservations, but I think he deserves a chance. He screwed up big time with the penalty incident after a stunning performance against Bournemouth B, but was never really given a fair shot at things by Smith.

One thing I do feel fairly certain about: if Tzolis pisses about, Wagner will have no patience. I sense ruthlessness under that friendly exterior. If Tzolis has any sense, he will realise that this is make or break for him in terms of the kind of career many were imagining for him. IMO, he has the talent, but I'm worried about the attitude and the mentality. Let's see.

Yes, I think you're right that he deserves a chance, especially if Wagner wants him in the squad. Considering the money we spent on him and the general defending of Webber I do on this forum, I'd absolutely love it if he became a superstar for us. It's just, his performances whenever i've seen him have been so underwhelming under both Farke and Smith that I struggle to get excited about the prospect, for now.

[Mason 47 1,376]

Interesting to see if Wagner can work his magic on him.

Perhaps he's one of these players that responds to the 'atmosphere' at a club. I've thought the same of Nunez recently- he brought some good vibes with him when he arrived, and we then were winning a few. Happy, skillful, confident Nunez.

After the atmosphere turned and we couldn't win a game, he was visibly flattened. I feel like we saw some green shoots v Coventry, some players just don't have the mentality for an unhappy environment.

And anyway, as others have mentioned, he deserves a clean slate as much as anyone.

[Branston Pickle 3,651]

46 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yes, I think you're right that he deserves a chance, especially if Wagner wants him in the squad. Considering the money we spent on him and the general defending of Webber I do on this forum, I'd absolutely love it if he became a superstar for us. It's just, his performances whenever i've seen him have been so underwhelming under both Farke and Smith that I struggle to get excited about the prospect, for now.

If we are getting him back but still signing the lad from Arsenal, it doesn’t particularly throw a huge amount of confidence in the direction of Tzolis, does it - at least for this season.  But good luck to him, clean slate and all that. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[repman 635]

I think the other thing about him that people forget is that he is just really young still. It's not the club's way to give up on a young so soon, especially one we spent a lot of money on. His current contract runs until 2026, at that point he will be younger than Onel was when we signed him. Goes to show how much of his career he has ahead of him. Obviously if he comes back and fails to impress we will have to look again but we could've done a lot better at aiding his development since he signed.

[Capt. Pants 4,224]

Gunn, McCallum, Sorensen, Nunez, Gibbs, Sinani, Idah were on the bench against Coventry. One can't imagine too many changes to the starting XI. How do we accommodate all these additional wide players? One assumes Sinani makes way, but that's Tzolis, Rowe and Marquinhos to find a space for. I don't see Arsenal allowing the latter to come here and not even getting on the bench.

It's a little bit strange if I'm honest.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Yes, I think you're right that he deserves a chance, especially if Wagner wants him in the squad. Considering the money we spent on him and the general defending of Webber I do on this forum, I'd absolutely love it if he became a superstar for us. It's just, his performances whenever i've seen him have been so underwhelming under both Farke and Smith that I struggle to get excited about the prospect, for now.

I thought he was great against Bournemouth. OK, I know all the caveats - it was only the League Cup, it was only Bournemouth B, etc - but he really did look like he might be something special that night. Then the penalty incident and it all turned sour.

I accept he has a lot to prove now, though. But I feel Wagner will give him the chance. I just hope he has the ability and the right attitude to take it.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,290]

30 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Gunn, McCallum, Sorensen, Nunez, Gibbs, Sinani, Idah were on the bench against Coventry. One can't imagine too many changes to the starting XI. How do we accommodate all these additional wide players? One assumes Sinani makes way, but that's Tzolis, Rowe and Marquinhos to find a space for. I don't see Arsenal allowing the latter to come here and not even getting on the bench.

It's a little bit strange if I'm honest.

Easy 

Sorensen out marquinhos in 

Sinani out Tzolis in 

👍

[CDMullins 436]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

If we are getting him back but still signing the lad from Arsenal, it doesn’t particularly throw a huge amount of confidence in the direction of Tzolis, does it - at least for this season.  But good luck to him, clean slate and all that. 

Tzolis on the left,

Marq on the right.

[chicken 2,624]

47 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I thought he was great against Bournemouth. OK, I know all the caveats - it was only the League Cup, it was only Bournemouth B, etc - but he really did look like he might be something special that night. Then the penalty incident and it all turned sour.

I accept he has a lot to prove now, though. But I feel Wagner will give him the chance. I just hope he has the ability and the right attitude to take it.

Got to ignore the "b team" rubbish when we featured what was a B team for us then. Not only that, a certain Pearson was playing and looked utterly daft, yet a bunch of people on here would like him here because he is supposedly good...

[Capt. Pants 4,224]

23 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Easy 

Sorensen out marquinhos in 

Sinani out Tzolis in 

👍

And our back up centre half is?

[mrdi 373]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Gunn, McCallum, Sorensen, Nunez, Gibbs, Sinani, Idah were on the bench against Coventry. One can't imagine too many changes to the starting XI. How do we accommodate all these additional wide players? One assumes Sinani makes way, but that's Tzolis, Rowe and Marquinhos to find a space for. I don't see Arsenal allowing the latter to come here and not even getting on the bench.

It's a little bit strange if I'm honest.

Depends how highly Wagner regards Idah. I can imagine Tzolis in a more central role, meaning it might even be him who gets nudged out. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,290]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

And our back up centre half is?

Well if your saying Sorensen is a back up center half then - Kenny. Drop him back and then bring Gibbs on into midfield. Sorted. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by GodlyOtsemobor

[littleyellowbirdie 2,538]

1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Tzolis on the left,

Marq on the right.

"Here I am, stuck in the middle with you." Sung Kenny McLean to Gabriel Sara.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

21 hours ago, hogesar said:

Twente clearly don't want him then, as I don't think we had a recall option. Can't see him having anywhere near the energy for a Wagner team

Well it turns out that Wagner asked for him back and Twente agreed, so sounds like Wagner does think he can fit his team somehow.

He's got to be an upgrade on Sinani surely?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Gunn, McCallum, Sorensen, Nunez, Gibbs, Sinani, Idah were on the bench against Coventry. One can't imagine too many changes to the starting XI. How do we accommodate all these additional wide players? One assumes Sinani makes way, but that's Tzolis, Rowe and Marquinhos to find a space for. I don't see Arsenal allowing the latter to come here and not even getting on the bench.

It's a little bit strange if I'm honest.

You are forgetting that Placheta is also back.

But Sinani clearly isn't good enough.

Placheta or Rowe out on loan perhaps?

[chicken 2,624]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well it turns out that Wagner asked for him back and Twente agreed, so sounds like Wagner does think he can fit his team somehow.

He's got to be an upgrade on Sinani surely?

I'm liking Wagner more by the minute. Sounds like he got a good look at the lad when he was with us as part of his recovery. Perhaps slightly well played in that Wagner got his look at him, he's gone back to Twente and trained, got some game time in and returns a bit fitter.

Not getting carried away here. Not at all. Nope. Nadda. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, chicken said:

I'm liking Wagner more by the minute. Sounds like he got a good look at the lad when he was with us as part of his recovery. Perhaps slightly well played in that Wagner got his look at him, he's gone back to Twente and trained, got some game time in and returns a bit fitter.

Not getting carried away here. Not at all. Nope. Nadda. 

Wonder if it is as simple as... Sinani has got interest, lets bin him off for a few hundred grand because he's clearly not getting an extension and I'll have a look at Tsoliz.

 

[chicken 2,624]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

You are forgetting that Placheta is also back.

But Sinani clearly isn't good enough.

Placheta or Rowe out on loan perhaps?

Sinani likely to be sold. Probably doesn't fit into our set up so much now. Placheta could be loaned out, I suspect Rowe will be kept though.

Can't really go on with Hernandez and Dowell as the two wide attacking midfield options. Especially when it's clear Wagner wants pace out wide. Rowe is the natural competition/replacement for Hernandez. Then you have the young lad from Arsenal incoming as a third pacey option. Arguably Tzolis pushes Dowell for that more creativity, a little less pace role. 

[Google Bot 3,263]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Wonder if it is as simple as... Sinani has got interest, lets bin him off for a few hundred grand because he's clearly not getting an extension and I'll have a look at Tsoliz.

Or he knows a quality player when he see's him.  If he can get Tzolis working hard and operating as part of that offensive press then we'll have a hell of a player on our hand.  I think it's a big ask though, from a player who's looked lost previously.

I just don't see what Sinani offers in this setup.  He's a great option if you're a mid-table team hoping to squeeze into the playoffs, but we need players with a higher ceiling than that.  Tzolis has that potential and as a head coach with ideas that probably excites him a lot more than a player he feels he's already see most of what they can offer.

I get the feeling that Farke and Wagner both like wildcards with latent potential.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Google Bot