Gilmour or Cantwell

TeemuVanBasten · January 27

59 minutes ago, Herman said:

Who??

Ronnie F*cking PICKERING!!

TheDarkKnight · January 27

28 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Therein lies the problem. Everyone needs to do the hard graft. Gilmour was a passenger with zero investment in the results. Norwich can't afford a player good enough to hold the entire midfield together on their own.

Remind me: how has your wee lad got on since his move to Brighton?

Were you an avid watcher of Manchester United before Casemiro was bought? I was. Fred, McTominay, Bruno and Eriksen strolled when they were out of possession. When they added the defensive awareness and positioning of Casemiro, all of a sudden they look like a completely different team.

It's like a jigsaw, each part is different, connect them all and have all the right shapes and you will have success. If there's holes in the puzzle, you're in bother.

Obviously Norwich didn't have an anchorman.

It could be going better. However, Brighton have a better midfield duo than everyone in the EPL, barring Manchester City. (Which includes the World Cup winning MacAllister)

And now Moises Caicedo has confirmed that he wants to leave. Arsenal had a £60m bid rejected. He'll either join them or Chelsea.

Edited January 27 by TheDarkKnight

Unhinged Canary · January 28

15 hours ago, Herman said:

Who??

The Real Buh · January 28

ABG

Anyone But Gilmour

one of the genuinely most overrated and useless footballers to play the game

He’ll be retired by 24 and shooting up in a Glasgow Wetherspoons toilet

Edited January 28 by The Real Buh

shefcanary · January 28

Mick Channon has just given up his race trainers licence, he has a bit of time on his hands now.

TheGoogler · January 28

I'd take Gilmour right now. I think he'd be decent at this level.

Mason 47 · January 28

15 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

If Norwich owned Gilmour he would/ve been given more of a change to grow by the fans and they would've given him more backing.

It's an odd quirk of football fandom, this. Because a great many Norwich fans hold that Cantwell was given a much rougher time of it- and much less patience- simply because he was 'one of our own' from the next town over. I've actually used Gilmour as an example of a player that attracted quite vicious feedback from fans, didn't look up to it for us (whether or not that was down to player or role notwithstanding) but never hid & was selected whenever fit.

Personally I feel with Todd it was a bit backwards, that it *seemed* like he was given less patience but only because it was *assumed* that because he's local he should get extra. I don't feel Cantwell was any worse treated than others in the past few years.

Furthermore whilst thinking about this, in the Athletic piece on TC it is suggested the player/agent felt his game was much more suited away from the rustle-bustle of the Championship and would would thrive in the PL. Yet we have a recent example in Gilmour, who obviously has technical ability, utterly wilting from the pace + power of that league.

Perspectives are peculiar things.

GodlyOtsemobor · January 28

TDK is the LYB of the Billy Gilmour world.

Newtopia · January 28

17 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think its fairer to compare games at the same level really, considering the gulf in quality, and sorry but Cantwell was worse than Gilmour last season.

Gilmour in the Championship remains to be seen. Personally think he's one of the most over rated British youngsters in modern history and he'll end up in the SPL or League One, but then I would have probably have said that about Harry Kane.

That is the actual problem with Gilmour, it is the level of expectation. He tried hard last season but tackled like he was made of bolsa wood and allowed players to run through him. He was neat and tidy, plus accepted the ball (albeit and lost it) under pressure.

Then things turned against him when the ridiculous man of match scores came in which did not reflect his performance levels.

He did keep offering up. His game time has been much more limited at Birghton.

NorthCarolinaYellow · January 28

Cantwell!! Gilmour is f*cking useless.

TheDarkKnight · January 28

6 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

It's an odd quirk of football fandom, this. Because a great many Norwich fans hold that Cantwell was given a much rougher time of it- and much less patience- simply because he was 'one of our own' from the next town over. I've actually used Gilmour as an example of a player that attracted quite vicious feedback from fans, didn't look up to it for us (whether or not that was down to player or role notwithstanding) but never hid & was selected whenever fit.

Personally I feel with Todd it was a bit backwards, that it *seemed* like he was given less patience but only because it was *assumed* that because he's local he should get extra. I don't feel Cantwell was any worse treated than others in the past few years.

Furthermore whilst thinking about this, in the Athletic piece on TC it is suggested the player/agent felt his game was much more suited away from the rustle-bustle of the Championship and would would thrive in the PL. Yet we have a recent example in Gilmour, who obviously has technical ability, utterly wilting from the pace + power of that league.

Perspectives are peculiar things.

I concur.

Probably why football discussion is a 24/7 occupation is because opinions vary and everyone has a say on everything, and at the end of the day, perceptions and opinions will always differ from the next person.

Suppose that's why we love it.

TheDarkKnight · January 28

4 hours ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

TDK is the LYB of the Billy Gilmour world.

Explain.

If you want to debate or dissect anything that I've said about Gilmour, please feel free.

I back up everything I say with facts.

If he was at Norwich right now he would be in the starting XI. As he was last season.

KeiranShikari · January 29

On 27/01/2023 at 21:56, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think its fairer to compare games at the same level really, considering the gulf in quality, and sorry but Cantwell was worse than Gilmour last season.

Gilmour in the Championship remains to be seen. Personally think he's one of the most over rated British youngsters in modern history and he'll end up in the SPL or League One, but then I would have probably have said that about Harry Kane.

If we're only able to compare games at the same level then I'd put forward Cantwell's first Premier League season. True he's not been at that level for consistently but he's at least proven that he can do it at that level.

I think you're probably right about the SPL being his final destination. Wonder if he'll get loaned to the Championship first though.

Newtopia · January 30

On 28/01/2023 at 19:42, TheDarkKnight said:

Explain.

If you want to debate or dissect anything that I've said about Gilmour, please feel free.

I back up everything I say with facts.

If he was at Norwich right now he would be in the starting XI. As he was last season.

I am not sure that is true, in our currently formation not sure he where he would play. He does not have the presence to drop into a back three when the fullbacks push up. Nor the energy to play ahead of Sara. I have not seen him play further forward so possibly the 10 ahead of Sargent?

If he was our player I guess he should be developed to play the holding position, but based on last season he needs to improve, otherwise we would need to play a different formation to accommodate him.

king canary · January 30

On 28/01/2023 at 15:20, Newtopia said:

That is the actual problem with Gilmour, it is the level of expectation. He tried hard last season but tackled like he was made of bolsa wood and allowed players to run through him. He was neat and tidy, plus accepted the ball (albeit and lost it) under pressure.

Then things turned against him when the ridiculous man of match scores came in which did not reflect his performance levels.

He did keep offering up. His game time has been much more limited at Birghton.

Yeah, he was pretty rubbish in my eyes but the stick he got was out of proportion largely because of factors outside of his control. It isn't BG's fault the media hyped him up so much, it isn't his fault that lazy analysts kept focusing on just him because they knew his name despite having not watched him all season and it isn't his fault that fans of big clubs are complete morons on social media when it comes to their own young players. It was annoying enough with Spurs fans and Skipp and he at least was playing very well, it was infuriating with Gilmour.

I wouldn't have him back as I don't think he'll ever be that good but he isn't quite as bad as many thought.

hogesar · January 30

Gilmour looked poor when he came on for Brighton yesterday vs Liverpool. Took the easy (and wrong) pass on multiple occasions putting teammates under more pressure than required.

hogesar · January 30

On 28/01/2023 at 19:42, TheDarkKnight said:

Explain.

If you want to debate or dissect anything that I've said about Gilmour, please feel free.

I back up everything I say with facts.

If he was at Norwich right now he would be in the starting XI. As he was last season.

I disagree he'd be in a Wagner starting eleven. It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed. Looks awful for Brighton, too.

NorthCarolinaYellow · January 30

In what way would Wee Billy get in the current Norwich XI? Sure it’s only been two league matches but Wagner’s preferred central midfield is more or less clear … Gilmour doesn’t have the ability or size to drop back between or even behind the CBs to carry the ball and help defend like McLean nor does he have the physicality and range that Sara does going forward. He’s clearly worse than either of them. And small!

I’m not even sure he’d make the matchday 18. What does he do well? How we compensate for his size and lack of pace? How does anyone?

Edited January 30 by NorthCarolinaYellow

NorthCarolinaYellow · January 30

26 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah, he was pretty rubbish in my eyes but the stick he got was out of proportion largely because of factors outside of his control. It isn't BG's fault the media hyped him up so much, it isn't his fault that lazy analysts kept focusing on just him because they knew his name despite having not watched him all season and it isn't his fault that fans of big clubs are complete morons on social media when it comes to their own young players. It was annoying enough with Spurs fans and Skipp and he at least was playing very well, it was infuriating with Gilmour.

I wouldn't have him back as I don't think he'll ever be that good but he isn't quite as bad as many thought.

True. But it WAS his fault that he looked completely clueless at providing anything going forward and wasn’t willing to tackle. He’ll, he wasn’t even good for a strategic foul managing just 2 yellow cards in almost 1,900 minutes of action!

He literally did nothing but accumulate a high % of sideways and backwards passes.

Edited January 30 by NorthCarolinaYellow

SwindonCanary · January 30

Cantwell at his best, but I fear we will never see that again.

king canary · January 30

33 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I disagree he'd be in a Wagner starting eleven. It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed. Looks awful for Brighton, too.

With reports the Brighton are giving Caicedo time off to clear his head it'll be interesting to see if his usage is increased.

Newtopia · January 30

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Gilmour looked poor when he came on for Brighton yesterday vs Liverpool. Took the easy (and wrong) pass on multiple occasions putting teammates under more pressure than required.

I thought he was okay yesterday, he still looked light weight and mostly passed the ball backwards. But he did break up a couple of attacks by nipping the ball away.

BurwellCanary · January 30

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Cantwell at his best, but I fear we will never see that again.

According to a sneaky peek at the Rangers fans forum - Cantwell impressed and some had him as MOM

TheGunnShow · January 30

On 27/01/2023 at 21:33, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. Oh, with regards to physically, I definitely agree. Gilmour has all the body mass of a Smurf.

I think Gilmour should move to Portugal or Spain. A player with the same physicality (Ryan Gauld) was one of the players of the season in the Portuguese top flight even though his club went down.

Agreed. (I think it's too early to make that judgement, to be fair)

He'd be grand in Italy.

Newtopia · January 30

2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Cantwell at his best, but I fear we will never see that again.

I have not seen how much we got for Cantwell, but I assume less than 1M. Brighton paid £10M for a three season contract. So in my simplistic mind £3M per annum. That story probably changes a little when you put on wages, but still shows other clubs valued BG higher than TC.

It's Character Forming · January 30

This reminds me of when you were a kid and you’d debate whether you’d rather lose an arm or a leg…

king canary · January 30

2 hours ago, Newtopia said:

I thought he was okay yesterday, he still looked light weight and mostly passed the ball backwards. But he did break up a couple of attacks by nipping the ball away.

Brighton fans seemed impressed with him and felt the game swung back in their favour with his introduction.

Thirsty Lizard · January 30

Along with Brentford, Brighton have been one of the best clubs in the country in the transfer market over the last few seasons. They chose to spend £10 million on Gilmour which suggests they see something in him.

As others have pointed out above many of the reasons why some Norwich fans took a dislike to him were totally out of Gilmour's control. Was he up to shining in central midfield in the Premier League for a team who were getting overrun week in week out? Clearly not! But then Harry Kane at a similar age couldn't shine in attack for a Norwich team in the Premier League and neither could Patrick Bamford.

We all know - because multiple posters on here at the time told us so - that Kane would probably end up in League 1 and that Bamford wouldn't make a professional footballer as long as he had a hole in his ar*e.

Mengo · January 30

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Along with Brentford, Brighton have been one of the best clubs in the country in the transfer market over the last few seasons. They chose to spend £10 million on Gilmour which suggests they see something in him.

As others have pointed out above many of the reasons why some Norwich fans took a dislike to him were totally out of Gilmour's control. Was he up to shining in central midfield in the Premier League for a team who were getting overrun week in week out? Clearly not! But then Harry Kane at a similar age couldn't shine in attack for a Norwich team in the Premier League and neither could Patrick Bamford.

We all know - because multiple posters on here at the time told us so - that Kane would probably end up in League 1 and that Bamford wouldn't make a professional footballer as long as he had a hole in his ar*e.

Yes, a lot of clever people around. Kane? Donkey. Bamford. Phew.!!!!!! Its good to see other people's perspective.

Norwich wrong place wrong time and tutchel was and always will be an a$$.

[Albion] 4-4-2

I thought it worked well first half but second half we were on the back foot and improved when Gilmour on. Unfortunately I would imagine Ferguson is a huge doubt for Saturday so we may be forced back to three in midfield.

Reddleman Post #8 Today at 10:58 AM Forum: The Big Board

Affy

[Albion] Moises Caicedo

...the realms of big big money. As much as I don’t want him to go, I’d rather have £75m than an unhappy player. Still time to sign someone and gilmour looked good today. Moder coming back, Gross, Lallana, maybe even some of the ones on loan be recalled? Kowslowki(?) in the number 10 leaving...

Affy Post #5,166 Yesterday at 10:47 PM Forum: The Big Board

[Albion] Today's formation (s)

Yeah, agree with this.

Littlemo Post #4 Yesterday at 9:42 PM Forum: The Big Board

Perkino

[Albion] Today's formation (s)

I was equally surprised by the starting line up and our dropping a CM to play 2 CF's. I had hoped to see Gilmour from the start, I thought his introduction changed the game

Perkino Post #2 Yesterday at 8:39 PM Forum: The Big Boat

[Albion] Moises Caicedo

We missed him of course but am I wrong in suggesting De Zerbi got it a bit wrong in changing the formation today? We got overrun in midfield but looked better once we shifted back to normal when Gilmour came on.

Littlemo Post #5,087 Yesterday at 4:40 PM Forum: The Big Board

Stato