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Midlands Yellow

Gilmour or Cantwell

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15 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

If Norwich owned Gilmour he would/ve been given more of a change to grow by the fans and they would've given him more backing.

It's an odd quirk of football fandom, this. Because a great many Norwich fans hold that Cantwell was given a much rougher time of it- and much less patience- simply because he was 'one of our own' from the next town over. I've actually used Gilmour as an example of a player that attracted quite vicious feedback from fans, didn't look up to it for us (whether or not that was down to player or role notwithstanding) but never hid & was selected whenever fit.

Personally I feel with Todd it was a bit backwards, that it *seemed* like he was given less patience but only because it was *assumed* that because he's local he should get extra. I don't feel Cantwell was any worse treated than others in the past few years.

Furthermore whilst thinking about this, in the Athletic piece on TC it is suggested the player/agent felt his game was much more suited away from the rustle-bustle of the Championship and would would thrive in the PL. Yet we have a recent example in Gilmour, who obviously has technical ability, utterly wilting from the pace + power of that league.

Perspectives are peculiar things.

 

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17 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think its fairer to compare games at the same level really, considering the gulf in quality, and sorry but Cantwell was worse than Gilmour last season.

Gilmour in the Championship remains to be seen. Personally think he's one of the most over rated British youngsters in modern history and he'll end up in the SPL or League One, but then I would have probably have said that about Harry Kane.

That is the actual problem with Gilmour, it is the level of expectation.  He tried hard last season but tackled like he was made of bolsa wood and allowed players to run through him.  He was neat and tidy, plus accepted the ball (albeit and lost it) under pressure.

Then things turned against him when the ridiculous man of match scores came in which did not reflect his performance levels.  

He did keep offering up.  His game time has been much more limited at Birghton.

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On 27/01/2023 at 21:56, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think its fairer to compare games at the same level really, considering the gulf in quality, and sorry but Cantwell was worse than Gilmour last season.

Gilmour in the Championship remains to be seen. Personally think he's one of the most over rated British youngsters in modern history and he'll end up in the SPL or League One, but then I would have probably have said that about Harry Kane.

If we're only able to compare games at the same level then I'd put forward Cantwell's first Premier League season. True he's not been at that level for consistently but he's at least proven that he can do it at that level. 

I think you're probably right about the SPL being his final destination. Wonder if he'll get loaned to the Championship first though. 

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On 28/01/2023 at 19:42, TheDarkKnight said:

Explain.

If you want to debate or dissect anything that I've said about Gilmour, please feel free.

I back up everything I say with facts.

If he was at Norwich right now he would be in the starting XI. As he was last season.

I am not sure that is true, in our currently formation not sure he where he would play.  He does not have the presence to drop into a back three when the fullbacks push up.  Nor the energy to play ahead of Sara.  I have not seen him play further forward so possibly the 10 ahead of Sargent?

If he was our player I guess he should be developed to play the holding position, but based on last season he needs to improve, otherwise we would need to play a different formation to accommodate him.

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On 28/01/2023 at 15:20, Newtopia said:

That is the actual problem with Gilmour, it is the level of expectation.  He tried hard last season but tackled like he was made of bolsa wood and allowed players to run through him.  He was neat and tidy, plus accepted the ball (albeit and lost it) under pressure.

Then things turned against him when the ridiculous man of match scores came in which did not reflect his performance levels.  

He did keep offering up.  His game time has been much more limited at Birghton.

Yeah, he was pretty rubbish in my eyes but the stick he got was out of proportion largely because of factors outside of his control. It isn't BG's fault the media hyped him up so much, it isn't his fault that lazy analysts kept focusing on just him because they knew his name despite having not watched him all season and it isn't his fault that fans of big clubs are complete morons on social media when it comes to their own young players. It was annoying enough with Spurs fans and Skipp and he at least was playing very well, it was infuriating with Gilmour.

I wouldn't have him back as I don't think he'll ever be that good but he isn't quite as bad as many thought.

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Gilmour looked poor when he came on for Brighton yesterday vs Liverpool. Took the easy (and wrong) pass on multiple occasions putting teammates under more pressure than required. 

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On 28/01/2023 at 19:42, TheDarkKnight said:

Explain.

If you want to debate or dissect anything that I've said about Gilmour, please feel free.

I back up everything I say with facts.

If he was at Norwich right now he would be in the starting XI. As he was last season.

I disagree he'd be in a Wagner starting eleven. It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed. Looks awful for Brighton, too.

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In what way would Wee Billy get in the current Norwich XI? Sure it’s only been two league matches but Wagner’s preferred central midfield is more or less clear … Gilmour doesn’t have the ability or size to drop back between or even behind the CBs to carry the ball and help defend like McLean nor does he have the physicality and range that Sara does going forward. He’s clearly worse than either of them. And small!

I’m not even sure he’d make the matchday 18. What does he do well? How we compensate for his size and lack of pace? How does anyone?

Edited by NorthCarolinaYellow

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26 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah, he was pretty rubbish in my eyes but the stick he got was out of proportion largely because of factors outside of his control. It isn't BG's fault the media hyped him up so much, it isn't his fault that lazy analysts kept focusing on just him because they knew his name despite having not watched him all season and it isn't his fault that fans of big clubs are complete morons on social media when it comes to their own young players. It was annoying enough with Spurs fans and Skipp and he at least was playing very well, it was infuriating with Gilmour.

I wouldn't have him back as I don't think he'll ever be that good but he isn't quite as bad as many thought.


True. But it WAS his fault that he looked completely clueless at providing anything going forward and wasn’t willing to tackle. He’ll, he wasn’t even good for a strategic foul managing just 2 yellow cards in almost 1,900 minutes of action!
 

He literally did nothing but accumulate a high % of sideways and backwards passes.

Edited by NorthCarolinaYellow

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33 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I disagree he'd be in a Wagner starting eleven. It certainly wouldn't be guaranteed. Looks awful for Brighton, too.

With reports the Brighton are giving Caicedo time off to clear his head it'll be interesting to see if his usage is increased. 

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15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Gilmour looked poor when he came on for Brighton yesterday vs Liverpool. Took the easy (and wrong) pass on multiple occasions putting teammates under more pressure than required. 

I thought he was okay yesterday, he still looked light weight and mostly passed the ball backwards.  But he did break up a couple of attacks by nipping the ball away.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Cantwell at his best, but I fear we will never see that again.

According to a sneaky peek at the Rangers fans forum - Cantwell impressed and some had him as MOM

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On 27/01/2023 at 21:33, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. Oh, with regards to physically, I definitely agree. Gilmour has all the body mass of a Smurf.

I think Gilmour should move to Portugal or Spain. A player with the same physicality (Ryan Gauld) was one of the players of the season in the Portuguese top flight even though his club went down.

Agreed. (I think it's too early to make that judgement, to be fair)

He'd be grand in Italy.

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2 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Cantwell at his best, but I fear we will never see that again.

I have not seen how much we got for Cantwell, but I assume less than 1M.  Brighton paid £10M for a three season contract.  So in my simplistic mind £3M per annum.  That story probably changes a little when you put on wages, but still shows other clubs valued BG higher than TC.

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2 hours ago, Newtopia said:

I thought he was okay yesterday, he still looked light weight and mostly passed the ball backwards.  But he did break up a couple of attacks by nipping the ball away.

Brighton fans seemed impressed with him and felt the game swung back in their favour with his introduction. 

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Along with Brentford, Brighton have been one of the best clubs in the country in the transfer market over the last few seasons. They chose to spend £10 million on Gilmour which suggests they see something in him.

As others have pointed out above many of the reasons why some Norwich fans took a dislike to him were totally out of Gilmour's control. Was he up to shining in central midfield in the Premier League for a team who were getting overrun week in week out? Clearly not! But then Harry Kane at a similar age couldn't shine in attack for a Norwich team in the Premier League and neither could Patrick Bamford.

We all know - because multiple posters on here at the time told us so - that Kane would probably end up in League 1 and that Bamford wouldn't make a professional footballer as long as he had a hole in his ar*e. 

 

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1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Along with Brentford, Brighton have been one of the best clubs in the country in the transfer market over the last few seasons. They chose to spend £10 million on Gilmour which suggests they see something in him.

As others have pointed out above many of the reasons why some Norwich fans took a dislike to him were totally out of Gilmour's control. Was he up to shining in central midfield in the Premier League for a team who were getting overrun week in week out? Clearly not! But then Harry Kane at a similar age couldn't shine in attack for a Norwich team in the Premier League and neither could Patrick Bamford.

We all know - because multiple posters on here at the time told us so - that Kane would probably end up in League 1 and that Bamford wouldn't make a professional footballer as long as he had a hole in his ar*e. 

 

Yes, a lot of clever  people around. Kane? Donkey. Bamford. Phew.!!!!!! Its good to see other people's perspective. 

Norwich  wrong place wrong time and tutchel was and always will be an a$$.

 

 

[Albion] 4-4-2

I thought it worked well first half but second half we were on the back foot and improved when Gilmour on. Unfortunately I would imagine Ferguson is a huge doubt for Saturday so we may be forced back to three in midfield.

Reddleman Post #8 Today at 10:58 AM Forum: The Big Board

Affy

[Albion] Moises Caicedo

...the realms of big big money. As much as I don’t want him to go, I’d rather have £75m than an unhappy player. Still time to sign someone and gilmour looked good today. Moder coming back, Gross, Lallana, maybe even some of the ones on loan be recalled? Kowslowki(?) in the number 10 leaving...

Affy Post #5,166 Yesterday at 10:47 PM Forum: The Big Board

 

[Albion] Today's formation (s)

Yeah, agree with this.

Littlemo Post #4 Yesterday at 9:42 PM Forum: The Big Board

Perkino

[Albion] Today's formation (s)

I was equally surprised by the starting line up and our dropping a CM to play 2 CF's. I had hoped to see Gilmour from the start, I thought his introduction changed the game

Perkino Post #2 Yesterday at 8:39 PM Forum: The Big Boat

 

[Albion] Moises Caicedo

We missed him of course but am I wrong in suggesting De Zerbi got it a bit wrong in changing the formation today? We got overrun in midfield but looked better once we shifted back to normal when Gilmour came on.

Littlemo Post #5,087 Yesterday at 4:40 PM Forum: The Big Board

Stato

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

...as effective as RS with the ball at his feet. Pascal had a hard day against the press, with very little room to play. The addition of Billy Gilmour gave us an extra 'small spaces' midfielder. He did well. Veltman is a fantastic defender, but I can see why he's not getting picked at centre...

Stato Post #498 Yesterday at 3:46 PM Forum:

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

Seagull27

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

Getting worried about this, we're really struggling to keep the ball in midfield. Gilmour for Welbeck is a sensible move. Looks like Mac pushing forward.

Seagull27 Post #283 Yesterday at 2:54 PM Forum: The Big Board

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

Gilmour for Welbz

dolphins Post #281 Yesterday at 2:54 PM Forum: The Big Board

aolstudios

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

He's doing the job of two players, tbf

aolstudios Post #242 Yesterday at 2:28 PM Forum: The Big Board

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

Feels like we’re playing two up top simply because we don’t have any CMs left. Not sure RDZ fancies Gilmour

um bongo molongo Post #240 Yesterday at 2:28 PM Forum: The Big Board

BrickTamland

[Albion] Brighton & Hove Albion vs Liverpool *** Official Match Thread ***

Ali Mac not looked very sharp (against his high standards). Wele has had some nice layoffs but him and Fergie together doesn’t seem to work. Bring one of the strikers off and get Gilmour in the anchor role

BrickTamland Post #238 Yesterday at 2:26 PM Forum: The Big Board

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On 27/01/2023 at 18:43, Midlands Yellow said:

Which player would welcome back in the squad to help the promotion push? It’s a tricky one isn’t it. 

Nope. Not tricky at all for me.

You either take a player who has shown he can play good football over 2-3 seasons or you can take Billy Gilmour. 

Oh, and Bamford is still cack. Yeah, he's had one or two half decent seasons... but he's by no means a standout player. He's not half the player Pukki is or Holt was.

Edited by chicken

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3 minutes ago, chicken said:

Nope. Not tricky at all for me.

You either take a player who has shown he can play good football over 2-3 seasons or you can take Billy Gilmour. 

Interesting thoughts, neither has had an outstanding performance in England in the last couple of seasons. Todd’s red Spider-Man boots in Glasgow swings it for me though. 

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3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Interesting thoughts, neither has had an outstanding performance in England in the last couple of seasons. Todd’s red Spider-Man boots in Glasgow swings it for me though. 

I would take any outstanding performances Vs none though.

Not particularly interesting. Just evidenced based. 

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14 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Interesting thoughts, neither has had an outstanding performance in England in the last couple of seasons. Todd’s red Spider-Man boots in Glasgow swings it for me though. 

What I really want to get to grips with is who is winning at the Soccerbot,  since the two main men have now departed . It's an expensive  😫 toy if it's not been utilised. 

I would agree the red spiderman boots must look good with official Glasgow Rangers suited dress code though.

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1 minute ago, Mengo said:

What I really want to get to grips with is who is winning at the Soccerbot,  since the two main men have now departed . It's an expensive  😫 toy if it's not been utilised. 

I would agree the red spiderman boots must look good with official Glasgow Rangers suited dress code though.

Perhaps Delia and Michael can take it home to have some fun when the takeover is finalised. 

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1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Perhaps Delia and Michael can take it home to have some fun when the takeover is finalised. 

Or maybe just use it once a year for Onel to scare people at Halloween 🎃.  Or maybe Ragnick that successful  German salesman at ex man United can buy it back at half price. 😉🙃

 

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10 hours ago, NorthCarolinaYellow said:

In what way would Wee Billy get in the current Norwich XI? Sure it’s only been two league matches but Wagner’s preferred central midfield is more or less clear … Gilmour doesn’t have the ability or size to drop back between or even behind the CBs to carry the ball and help defend like McLean nor does he have the physicality and range that Sara does going forward. He’s clearly worse than either of them. And small!

I’m not even sure he’d make the matchday 18. What does he do well? How we compensate for his size and lack of pace? How does anyone?

Genuinely, he is a neat and tidy pieces player.  Brighton play a central midfield 3, similiar to ourselves, but Lallana or MacAllister are deeper, and the CDM’s rarely slide into the defence.  In that system he has a better chance of finding a niche position, yet even there he needs to improve his mobility and ball winning skills.

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